Law Don't let your kids chemically transition

[Lubaolong]

Just wanting to jump in that my big issue here is the distinction between young people with severe gender dysphoria young people who just feel that to they are transgender. The second group certainly is not in need of drugs or surgeries just like the girl in the OP. I believe the only time these things could be ethical is when the young person is actually becoming suicidal and this is a small group to identify.

You should reference the World Professional Association for Transgender Health Guidelines for their criteria for treatment.

 

[Andy Capp]

Just wanting to jump in that my big issue here is the distinction between young people with severe gender dysphoria young people who just feel that to they are transgender. The second group certainly is not in need of drugs or surgeries just like the girl in the OP. I believe the only time these things could be ethical is when the young person is actually becoming suicidal and this is a small group to identify.

That is what counselling and mental health treatment is supposed to identify and weed out and why I said the person needs to receive the appropriate support before getting to anything like puberty blockers or other changes, or else bad outcomes are more likely.

 

[Lubaolong]

https://www.wpath.org/media/cms/Documents/SOC v7/SOC V7_English.pdf

 

[squeezewax]

I don't know if this video or this particular case has already been mentioned, there are too many pages for me to go thru'

Anyway it's about a Canadian father who was arrested for opposing his the 14 yr old girl 'transitioning' to a boy. He was arrested because he refused to refer to her as he or him! She is currently receiving testosterone and he's worried that the next step is puberty blockers.

This is so sad.
These doctors and judges know this is wrong. They've obviously been bribed, or more likely threatened with losing their jobs and careers, so because they're cowards they harm kids.
https://odysee.com/@OurFreeSociety:...rrested-opposing-daughters-wish-to-be-a-boy:e

 

[Lubaolong]

I don't know if this video or this particular case has already been mentioned, there are too many pages for me to go thru'

Anyway it's about a Canadian father who was arrested for opposing his the 14 yr old girl 'transitioning' to a boy. He was arrested because he refused to refer to her as he or him! She is currently receiving testosterone and he's worried that the next step is puberty blockers.

This is so sad.
These doctors and judges know this is wrong. They've obviously been bribed, or more likely threatened with losing their jobs and careers, so because they're cowards they harm kids.
https://odysee.com/@OurFreeSociety:...rrested-opposing-daughters-wish-to-be-a-boy:e

You can easily Google this case. It is not at all what you describe.

In most place, there are a number of healthcare services that minors can consent for without parental approval. These include things like treatment of communicable diseases, sexual health (pregnancy, STDs, etc), mental health, and others.

Looks like this teenager was in treatment against his dad’s wishes, and despite a a previous court ban that was given to the dad, the dad continued to expose his son’s sensitive personal and medical information. He was jailed for repeatedly violating a court order.

 

[IamStryker]

You should reference the World Professional Association for Transgender Health Guidelines for their criteria for treatment.

Whatever it says is meaningless if it's not happening.

 

[IamStryker]

That is what counselling and mental health treatment is supposed to identify and weed out and why I said the person needs to receive the appropriate support before getting to anything like puberty blockers or other changes, or else bad outcomes are more likely.

I don't believe this is happening. The focus is on affirming over questioning. Its the entire culture which says children can decide their gender.

 

[Andy Capp]

I don't believe this is happening. The focus is on affirming over questioning. Its the entire culture which says children can decide their gender.

Your disbelief doesn't change reality. Seems there was a rather clear illustration of that recently, don't you think?

 

[IamStryker]

Your disbelief doesn't change reality. Seems there was a rather clear illustration of that recently, don't you think?

I'm saying that is the reality. You know very well what I said about the culture is true.

If what you are claiming is true there wouldn't be all these stories of 15 year old girls getting their breasts removed and then realizing oh wait that was a mistake.

 

[salamander]

Are you promoting the idea there is some sort of organized conspiracy to subjugate/corrupt people on this basis? You believe that?

No, I'm just saying that force-teaming is a tactic used by TRA's.

 

[Lubaolong]

If what you are claiming is true there wouldn't be all these stories of 15 year old girls getting their breasts removed and then realizing oh wait that was a mistake.

Where are all these 15-year-olds with regret? A lot of insurances require 1 year of hormone therapy prior to breast surgery, and most don't start on hormones until 16. And post-surgical regret is uncommon (as stated previously, maybe 1%). This is nonsense propaganda.

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I don't even know where to begin with this one. Fuck it. Teleport me back to the 80s.

 

[Sano]

Sorry but acting like the medical community could possibly have enough information to reasonably discern long term effects of taking pills to delay puberty in kids is madness. Not trying to be a dick, but big pharma execs would read a post like yours and probably ejaculate in their pants. Coupled with a societal push in the direction of gender fluidity, they see massive dollar signs in having these drugs prescribed as much as possible and then most likely cashing in on the back end when these kids "need" massive cocktails of other drugs to "unfuck" their heads because of all this craziness.

Kids at these ages are confused about pretty much EVERYTHING. We are seriously at the point where as a society we're like "Meh, sure, let's chemically block all these confused kid's natural bodily growth with drugs until they sort things out. It's fine, can't be any long term ramifications, nah." I mean, that's just fucking lunacy.

If a 13 year old boy decides he's a girl and he's gonna live his life as a female...**shrug**. Fine. Whatever safe and non permanent cosmetic changes that kid wants to do is on them. Go for it. But adults giving pills to block puberty...what the actual fuck.

From the most recent research I've seen, very few adolescent regret their choices and decide to re-transition. Still, this is a complicated issue requireing a rigorous process and intersectional collaboration between psychologists and the medical community in determining how to best help transgender individuals. What I don't agree with is the amount of absurd attention it gets elsewhere.

 

[fingercuffs]

I'm saying that is the reality. You know very well what I said about the culture is true.

If what you are claiming is true there wouldn't be all these stories of 15 year old girls getting their breasts removed and then realizing oh wait that was a mistake.

Where are all these 15-year-olds with regret? A lot of insurances require 1 year of hormone therapy prior to breast surgery, and most don't start on hormones until 16. And post-surgical regret is uncommon (as stated previously, maybe 1%). This is nonsense propaganda.

 

[Sano]

Very relevant discussion to be had, that is how the scientific and healthcare community works. Striving to give the best care and informed consent.

Has nothing to do with whatever point you were trying to make and the text of the tweet though.

 

[mkess101]

From the most recent research I've seen, very few adolescent regret their choices and decide to re-transition. Still, this is a complicated issue requireing a rigorous process and intersectional collaboration between psychologists and the medical community in determining how to best help transgender individuals. What I don't agree with is the amount of absurd attention it gets elsewhere.

They don't necessarily have to retransition to regret their choice though. There have been widespread negative side effects of Lupron for example, and that's one drug.

It gets a lot of attention like anything else that was once completely taboo but then gains a measure of acceptance. Although this has the added fuel of impacting society in tangible ways when it comes to managing the obvious physical differences between biological males and females. Sports, prisons, etc. We've already seen the boundaries being tested to the point of pure madness. Housing biological males alongside females in prison based on nothing but them simply saying "I now identify as a woman." Biological males dominating female athletics. These things are gonna draw attention, even if they currently impact only a small % of the population. Because new norms matter. They define how we coexist going forward.

 

[Sano]

They don't necessarily have to retransition to regret their choice though. There have been widespread negative side effects of Lupron for example, and that's one drug.

It gets a lot of attention like anything else that was once completely taboo but then gains a measure of acceptance. Although this has the added fuel of impacting society in tangible ways when it comes to managing the obvious physical differences between biological males and females. Sports, prisons, etc. We've already seen the boundaries being tested to the point of pure madness. Housing biological males alongside females in prison based on nothing but them simply saying "I now identify as a woman." Biological males dominating female athletics. These things are gonna draw attention, even if they currently impact only a small % of the population. Because new norms matter. They define how we coexist going forward.

I agree with your overarching point to some degree about new norms, however the details are important. Things like men being housed in womans prison simply by saying so, isn't happening for example. It's a fiction. Only a little over a dozen transpeople are housed according to their lived gender in the US and the process is overtly challenging. This story is well worth a read: https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...ways-incarcerated-men-s-putting-many-n1142436

Getting the facts straight is important on both sides when dealing with an issue as divisive as this. My personal opinion:

On the issue:
Transpeople exist and should have equal rights (bathrooms yes, sports within regulations).
While most research shows that transitioning is mostly positive, a lot more research needs to be done. First line of treatment for body dysmorphia should be psychological treatment that is neither affirming nor conversive, before moving into any medical or surgical options. Simply ignoring mistakes and negative consequences is just as bad as ignoring the positive ones.

No one under 18 should undergo gender reassignment surgery, however social transitioning and perhaps puberty blockers might be reasonable if they continue to show improved outcomes.

The increase in people transitioning is probably partly due to less taboo and stigma, but also due somewhat to social trends. For some it is definitely a phase, although most of those likely end up in the "non-binary" category.

On the politics:
Claiming you are another sex, without diagnosis or medical evaluation, doesn't make you one. Biological sex is real, however again, trans-men and woman exist and I have no issue with them being treated as their lived gender.

Transgenderism is relevant for a very small percentage of the population and even with the increase in trend, will always be that way. Allowing that tiny minority to be incorporated into society isn't dangerous.

Too much noise is made about the issue (either by virtue signalling or by demonizing) and more effort should be put into understanding the science and less on using transpeople as a poitical football.

 

[sangreporsangre]

Very relevant discussion to be had, that is how the scientific and healthcare community works. Striving to give the best care and informed consent.

Has nothing to do with whatever point you were trying to make and the text of the tweet though.

Seems to me that in our hyper-capitalist world the scientific and healthcare "community" is striving to maximize profits as its first priority, far ahead of providing "the best care". That's why we see entire communities devastated by opioids, why we see young boys being drugged so they can sit still in class, it's why we've seen any number of medical scandals. Now we see the creation of a lucrative new market with the "trans kid" industry and somehow we're supposed to look at it as removed from that context somehow. Your faith in the medical-indistrial complex is misplaced imo and the "trans kid" industry will be remembered as a scandal like the lobotomy but even worse.

 

[sangreporsangre]

They don't necessarily have to retransition to regret their choice though. There have been widespread negative side effects of Lupron for example, and that's one drug.

It gets a lot of attention like anything else that was once completely taboo but then gains a measure of acceptance. Although this has the added fuel of impacting society in tangible ways when it comes to managing the obvious physical differences between biological males and females. Sports, prisons, etc. We've already seen the boundaries being tested to the point of pure madness. Housing biological males alongside females in prison based on nothing but them simply saying "I now identify as a woman." Biological males dominating female athletics. These things are gonna draw attention, even if they currently impact only a small % of the population. Because new norms matter. They define how we coexist going forward.

Yea I think the reason it gets so much attention is that it's a radical revolution in human self-conception that has emerged from those institutions that power/capital have traditionally used to maintain their privilege and domination of society like media and academia. It's heavily astroturfed and marketed towards children. You'll notice that some people who bemoan the attention that the issue gets on a forum like this don't take any issue with the huge amount of focus it gets in elementary schools or in children's media. For those of us with children in areas where multiple kids "come out as trans" - I say areas because, strangely, this supposedly naturally occurring phenomenon seems to affect clusters of kids who know each other in specific geographical areas and not so much in others - this is an issue to be concerned with. Not the biggest issue of course, but the one that's probably the most openly insane and "clown world" for lack of a better term.

 

[squeezewax]

Whenever a typical “liberal” college educated parent hears a doctor or medical bureaucrat utter a pronouncement, the parent, like a doomed trained monkey, AUTOMATICALLY replies, “Well, this evidence certainly has some merit…”

God help the child who has such a parent.

“Joe Biden’s transgender Assistant Health Secretary Dr. Rachel (Richard) Levine spoke at a DNC pride month event on Friday.”
“On Friday, Dr. Levine said sex reassignment surgery (castration) and puberty blockers (chemical castration) for KIDS is ‘lifesaving, medically necessary, age appropriate, and a critical tool’.”
“Levine recently said that there is no debate about ‘gender-affirming’ care for kids.”
“’There is no argument among medical professionals — pediatricians, pediatric endocrinologists, adolescent medicine physicians, adolescent psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. — about the value and the importance of gender-affirming care,’ Levine said.”

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2022/06/27/medical-dictatorship-their-gender-war/