International Disunited Kingdom: The Renewed Call For Scottish Independence, Part 2.

[Denter]

The route that was taken last time was section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998.

So the Queen via the privy council cede the power to the Scottish Parliament to amend section 5 (the part dealing with the Union) and dependent on the result of a referendum either leave the union or stay in it.

So basically they need permission from the executive branch of the UK?

 

[The Merchant]

Does Scotland alone qualify for membership? I recall reading something along the lines of debt to gdp ratio or something not being up to par.

Not automatically. However in practice I cannot see much to stop it happening fairly quickly.

Ironically one of the main Unionist arguments in 2014 was; The only way to gurantee membership of the EU is to vote No to Scottish independence.

 

[Sketch]

thats lovely... but it has fuck all to do with whether Scotland could be an independent nation running our own affairs. Whether or not England "leave us alone" is of no relevance either, do you think they really want a war on this island? If you do then you need help

England wont have any say in whether we keep the North Sea oil, 96% of all UK oil is in our national waters. Once we are independent its ours, whether they like it or not.

You haven't a chance to stop them in any way shape or form. I'm not even trolling or trying to annoy you, seriously what the hell could Scotland do if the Royal Navy and England say, we're taking it?

 

[Pseudo Sane]

You haven't a chance to stop them in any way shape or form. I'm not even trolling or trying to annoy you, seriously what the hell could Scotland do if the Royal Navy and England say, we're taking it?

Oh Sketch, the perfidious English would never treat the Scottish that way. History contains no examples of the English riding-roughshod over Scotland's hopes and dreams.

And even if history did contain such examples, surely no such thing could happen again in Europe in these enlightened times?

 

[The ScorpioN]

Not automatically. However in practice I cannot see much to stop it happening fairly quickly.

Ironically one of the main Unionist arguments in 2014 was; The only way to gurantee membership of the EU is to vote No to Scottish independence.

What's your take on UK general election?

 

[MayhemMonkey]

You haven't a chance to stop them in any way shape or form. I'm not even trolling or trying to annoy you, seriously what the hell could Scotland do if the Royal Navy and England say, we're taking it?

if only there was another Celtic nation of a similar size that had to fight the UK government for its freedom we could look to for support... or a certain group that comes from said nation

nope... Im drawing a blank. You're right, we're fucked

 

[Sketch]

if only there was another Celtic nation of a similar size that had to fight the UK government for its freedom we could look to for support... or a certain group that comes from said nation

nope... Im drawing a blank. You're right, we're fucked

So you team up. Got it. England still wins massively.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

So you team up. Got it. England still wins massively.

if they couldnt beat the IRA how will they beat the IRA and a Scottish equivalent if it ever starts up?

engage your brain ffs

 

[Sketch]

if they couldnt beat the IRA how will they beat the IRA and a Scottish equivalent if it ever starts up?

engage your brain ffs

They'll just take your oil mate. When it comes to big oil and money they will take it from you guys if you tell them to go fuck themselves.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

They'll just take your oil mate. When it comes to big oil and money they will take it from you guys if you tell them to go fuck themselves.

I see you failed to answer my question and are now just moving the goalposts onto whichever shitty point you think is actually good... guess what? your points are shit, just give up

 

[Arkain2K]

Could Scotland become the next Catalonia?
By Ishaan Tharoor | Dec. 16, 2019

The battle lines are being drawn. Just days after Britain’s election, in which the Conservatives led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson won a clear majority in Parliament, there’s trouble brewing to the north. The results in Scotland represented a huge victory for the Scottish National Party, a center-left faction that wants nothing to do with most Conservative policies, least of all Brexit.

Even as Johnson urged unity, Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP and Scotland’s first minister, reiterated her party’s demand for another independence referendum. She cast the election, in which her party won 80 percent of Scotland’s seats, as a “watershed moment” and said that listening to Scotland’s independence aspirations was a matter of democratic fairness.

“You cannot hold Scotland in the union against its will. … If the United Kingdom is to continue it can only be by consent,” Sturgeon told the BBC on Monday. “And if Boris Johnson is confident in the case for the union then he should be confident enough to make that case and allow people to decide.”

Johnson has indicated that he will turn down any new demand for another separation vote. But Sturgeon is building momentum for another bid. This week, she’s expected to formally put forth a legal argument for independence. On Thursday, Scotland’s regional parliament in Edinburgh is slated to vote on a bill that would be the first step in the process of formally requesting that the British government give Scotland the right to hold a referendum.



Five years ago, Scotland won that right from Westminster and held, with minimal fuss, a referendum. The yes camp lost narrowly then. But Brexit, which is bitterly opposed by most Scottish voters, has galvanized Scottish nationalists. And their opponents are deflated. In 2014, Britain’s three major parties — the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats — worked together to make the case for no in Scotland. But after a bruising, polarizing half-decade, it’s hard to imagine them mustering a similar level of collaboration if a second referendum occurs.

The kindling is in place for an explosive constitutional standoff. That has drawn parallels to the northeastern Spanish region of Catalonia, where a secessionist movement unilaterally staged a referendum in 2017 that Madrid deemed illegal. Prominent Catalan secessionist leaders fled to exile; others were arrested and tried on charges of sedition and misuse of state funds. In October, riots and protests flared once more in Barcelona and other Catalan cities after the Spanish Supreme Court sentenced nine Catalan separatist leaders to prison sentences ranging from nine to 13 years.

The Catalan secessionists have for years argued that they want from Madrid what Scotland secured from Westminster in 2014: the legal right to hold a referendum. Spanish authorities shrug at British precedent and view Catalan moves toward secession as unconstitutional. Polls show that support for independence in both Scotland and Catalonia hovers slightly below 50 percent, though considerably more people are open to the idea of referendums.

The fraught political situation in Madrid may give the Catalan secessionists new energy: To form a stable government, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is holding talks this week with a left-wing Catalan secessionist party, which hopes to bring up Catalan self-determination and amnesty for the imprisoned leaders as part of the discussion.

Sturgeon has said she won’t play the same game of brinkmanship that led to scenes of chaos in 2017 in Catalonia. But she’s adamant that Scotland has a right to pursue independence once more, and experts see her and Johnson possibly waging a high-stakes legal battle in the months to come.

“The Westminster system isn’t working for Scotland and hasn’t done so for a very long time,” Sturgeon said in an interview before the election with Washington Post stringer Amanda Ferguson. “We have right now a Westminster system that leads to Tory governments we in Scotland don’t vote for — imposing policies, like Brexit and austerity, that do us harm.”



Both independence movements share an explicit fealty to the ideals and aspirations of the European Union. Scottish and Catalan secessionists argue that their nationalism is anchored not in nostalgia for a lost past, but a vision of a post-national future, where their multicultural societies can be tethered to the cosmopolitan European project. The European Union has studiously resisted offering much support for their ambitions.

Sturgeon insists that Brexit, brought into effect by a 2016 referendum, makes her case all the more urgent. “There has been a huge change in circumstances since the last independence referendum,” she told The Post. “Then, people were categorically told that the only way to protect Scotland’s place in Europe was to reject independence. Scotland now faces being dragged out of the E.U. and the world’s biggest single market — which is around eight times the size of the U.K. market — against its will.”

Alfred Bosch, the de facto foreign minister of Catalonia’s regional government, echoed this commitment to Brussels in an interview during a visit to Washington last month. “Europe emerges from the Second World War saying enough is enough. Enough intolerance, war, racism, fascism. … We believe in that,” he told Today’s WorldView. “We believe in Europe. We are not Brexiters, we are Remainers.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/12/17/could-scotland-become-next-catalonia/

 

[The Merchant]

What's your take on UK general election?

Turkeys voting for christmas.

 

[The Merchant]

You haven't a chance to stop them in any way shape or form. I'm not even trolling or trying to annoy you, seriously what the hell could Scotland do if the Royal Navy and England say, we're taking it?

Probably sink them it with Vanguard/trafalgar class submarines.

Failing that just walk over the border and start battering cunts.

 

[The Merchant]

Could Scotland become the next Catalonia?
By Ishaan Tharoor | Dec. 16, 2019

The battle lines are being drawn. Just days after Britain’s election, in which the Conservatives led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson won a clear majority in Parliament, there’s trouble brewing to the north. The results in Scotland represented a huge victory for the Scottish National Party, a center-left faction that wants nothing to do with most Conservative policies, least of all Brexit.

Even as Johnson urged unity, Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP and Scotland’s first minister, reiterated her party’s demand for another independence referendum. She cast the election, in which her party won 80 percent of Scotland’s seats, as a “watershed moment” and said that listening to Scotland’s independence aspirations was a matter of democratic fairness.

“You cannot hold Scotland in the union against its will. … If the United Kingdom is to continue it can only be by consent,” Sturgeon told the BBC on Monday. “And if Boris Johnson is confident in the case for the union then he should be confident enough to make that case and allow people to decide.”

Johnson has indicated that he will turn down any new demand for another separation vote. But Sturgeon is building momentum for another bid. This week, she’s expected to formally put forth a legal argument for independence. On Thursday, Scotland’s regional parliament in Edinburgh is slated to vote on a bill that would be the first step in the process of formally requesting that the British government give Scotland the right to hold a referendum.



Five years ago, Scotland won that right from Westminster and held, with minimal fuss, a referendum. The yes camp lost narrowly then. But Brexit, which is bitterly opposed by most Scottish voters, has galvanized Scottish nationalists. And their opponents are deflated. In 2014, Britain’s three major parties — the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats — worked together to make the case for no in Scotland. But after a bruising, polarizing half-decade, it’s hard to imagine them mustering a similar level of collaboration if a second referendum occurs.

The kindling is in place for an explosive constitutional standoff. That has drawn parallels to the northeastern Spanish region of Catalonia, where a secessionist movement unilaterally staged a referendum in 2017 that Madrid deemed illegal. Prominent Catalan secessionist leaders fled to exile; others were arrested and tried on charges of sedition and misuse of state funds. In October, riots and protests flared once more in Barcelona and other Catalan cities after the Spanish Supreme Court sentenced nine Catalan separatist leaders to prison sentences ranging from nine to 13 years.

The Catalan secessionists have for years argued that they want from Madrid what Scotland secured from Westminster in 2014: the legal right to hold a referendum. Spanish authorities shrug at British precedent and view Catalan moves toward secession as unconstitutional. Polls show that support for independence in both Scotland and Catalonia hovers slightly below 50 percent, though considerably more people are open to the idea of referendums.

The fraught political situation in Madrid may give the Catalan secessionists new energy: To form a stable government, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is holding talks this week with a left-wing Catalan secessionist party, which hopes to bring up Catalan self-determination and amnesty for the imprisoned leaders as part of the discussion.

Sturgeon has said she won’t play the same game of brinkmanship that led to scenes of chaos in 2017 in Catalonia. But she’s adamant that Scotland has a right to pursue independence once more, and experts see her and Johnson possibly waging a high-stakes legal battle in the months to come.

“The Westminster system isn’t working for Scotland and hasn’t done so for a very long time,” Sturgeon said in an interview before the election with Washington Post stringer Amanda Ferguson. “We have right now a Westminster system that leads to Tory governments we in Scotland don’t vote for — imposing policies, like Brexit and austerity, that do us harm.”



Both independence movements share an explicit fealty to the ideals and aspirations of the European Union. Scottish and Catalan secessionists argue that their nationalism is anchored not in nostalgia for a lost past, but a vision of a post-national future, where their multicultural societies can be tethered to the cosmopolitan European project. The European Union has studiously resisted offering much support for their ambitions.

Sturgeon insists that Brexit, brought into effect by a 2016 referendum, makes her case all the more urgent. “There has been a huge change in circumstances since the last independence referendum,” she told The Post. “Then, people were categorically told that the only way to protect Scotland’s place in Europe was to reject independence. Scotland now faces being dragged out of the E.U. and the world’s biggest single market — which is around eight times the size of the U.K. market — against its will.”

Alfred Bosch, the de facto foreign minister of Catalonia’s regional government, echoed this commitment to Brussels in an interview during a visit to Washington last month. “Europe emerges from the Second World War saying enough is enough. Enough intolerance, war, racism, fascism. … We believe in that,” he told Today’s WorldView. “We believe in Europe. We are not Brexiters, we are Remainers.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/12/17/could-scotland-become-next-catalonia/

Scottish law isn't regional it's the law of the land there are 3 legislatures in the UK. The Lockerbie trial was done (well sort of) by Scottish Law in Europe as it's the highest law for Scotland.

The Tories have basically 10 years in power now, as Labour the parlimentary party and their actual base are so fundementally opposed. They will just ignore Sturgeon now. David Cameron only allowed it cause at the time it was pollng low 20% for YES but by vote time had gotten to 45% and squeaky bum time.

SNP is slowly splitting as well, cause of all this gender identity politics, with underhand tactics being used to try and get folk deselected. Salmonds upcoming rape case and the ins and outs of how that came to be playing out behind the scenes as well.

 

[flashNsmash]

Probably sink them it with Vanguard/trafalgar class submarines.

Failing that just walk over the border and start battering cunts.

release a million bottles from the strategic bucky reserve and watch the cobble tangos unfold

 

[Billy no mates]

if they couldnt beat the IRA how will they beat the IRA and a Scottish equivalent if it ever starts up?

engage your brain ffs

We won't we'll just bomb you right back , starting with high value targets like chip shops , heroin dealers and the Krankies .

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Man the left really fucked things up worldwide by pushing progress for progress' sake and creating this backlash that has divided all western nations.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

this is easily the dumbest statement yet. England relies solely on London, other than that its got fuck all else to sell to the world which is why it runs a massive trade deficit. Scotland on the other hand has never had a trade deficit in my lifetime(35 years). Scotland is more than capable of running our own affairs. Norway is a good comparison as we are a similar size with roughly the same amount of oil

Yeah?

https://www.gov.scot/news/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2018-19/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...8-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...-deficit-means-numbers-independence-dont-add/

 

[MayhemMonkey]

We won't we'll just bomb you right back , starting with high value targets like chip shops , heroin dealers and the Krankies .

we'll just bomb all the kiddie brothels the royals frequent... there goes Englands main export

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Yeah?

https://www.gov.scot/news/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2018-19/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...8-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...-deficit-means-numbers-independence-dont-add/

did you just share GERS as evidence of something? if so, slap yourself!



oh and we cant have a deficit and balance the budget every year... any deficit is the responsibility of the UK government. So slap yourself again