International Disunited Kingdom: The Renewed Call For Scottish Independence, Part 2.

[MayhemMonkey]

So you were wrong , accept it and move on mate .

so you accept that they are English and are paedos(with kids provided by Savile, another Englishman)... They represent you, not me.

 

[Jackedwrestler]

we are trying but you clingy fucks are tough to shake loose

Listen you insect, you are nothing.Your country is nothing.

If I was leader of this nation, i'd grant you independence, then the very next day invade you and wipe out every last one of you.

Do you understand that.

 

[Billy no mates]

so you accept that they are English and are paedos(with kids provided by Savile, another Englishman)... They represent you, not me.

They represent us all , you might not like it but its a fact .

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Listen you insect, you are nothing.Your country is nothing.

If I was leader of this nation, i'd grant you independence, then the very next day invade you and wipe out every last one of you.

Do you understand that.

I understand that you are a fucking weirdo

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Bargey]

Let them go independent, go broke and then come crawling back to Mummy.

 

[danny23]

Could Scotland become the next Catalonia?
By Ishaan Tharoor | Dec. 16, 2019

The battle lines are being drawn. Just days after Britain’s election, in which the Conservatives led by Prime Minister Boris Johnson won a clear majority in Parliament, there’s trouble brewing to the north. The results in Scotland represented a huge victory for the Scottish National Party, a center-left faction that wants nothing to do with most Conservative policies, least of all Brexit.

Even as Johnson urged unity, Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP and Scotland’s first minister, reiterated her party’s demand for another independence referendum. She cast the election, in which her party won 80 percent of Scotland’s seats, as a “watershed moment” and said that listening to Scotland’s independence aspirations was a matter of democratic fairness.

“You cannot hold Scotland in the union against its will. … If the United Kingdom is to continue it can only be by consent,” Sturgeon told the BBC on Monday. “And if Boris Johnson is confident in the case for the union then he should be confident enough to make that case and allow people to decide.”

Johnson has indicated that he will turn down any new demand for another separation vote. But Sturgeon is building momentum for another bid. This week, she’s expected to formally put forth a legal argument for independence. On Thursday, Scotland’s regional parliament in Edinburgh is slated to vote on a bill that would be the first step in the process of formally requesting that the British government give Scotland the right to hold a referendum.



Five years ago, Scotland won that right from Westminster and held, with minimal fuss, a referendum. The yes camp lost narrowly then. But Brexit, which is bitterly opposed by most Scottish voters, has galvanized Scottish nationalists. And their opponents are deflated. In 2014, Britain’s three major parties — the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats — worked together to make the case for no in Scotland. But after a bruising, polarizing half-decade, it’s hard to imagine them mustering a similar level of collaboration if a second referendum occurs.

The kindling is in place for an explosive constitutional standoff. That has drawn parallels to the northeastern Spanish region of Catalonia, where a secessionist movement unilaterally staged a referendum in 2017 that Madrid deemed illegal. Prominent Catalan secessionist leaders fled to exile; others were arrested and tried on charges of sedition and misuse of state funds. In October, riots and protests flared once more in Barcelona and other Catalan cities after the Spanish Supreme Court sentenced nine Catalan separatist leaders to prison sentences ranging from nine to 13 years.

The Catalan secessionists have for years argued that they want from Madrid what Scotland secured from Westminster in 2014: the legal right to hold a referendum. Spanish authorities shrug at British precedent and view Catalan moves toward secession as unconstitutional. Polls show that support for independence in both Scotland and Catalonia hovers slightly below 50 percent, though considerably more people are open to the idea of referendums.

The fraught political situation in Madrid may give the Catalan secessionists new energy: To form a stable government, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez is holding talks this week with a left-wing Catalan secessionist party, which hopes to bring up Catalan self-determination and amnesty for the imprisoned leaders as part of the discussion.

Sturgeon has said she won’t play the same game of brinkmanship that led to scenes of chaos in 2017 in Catalonia. But she’s adamant that Scotland has a right to pursue independence once more, and experts see her and Johnson possibly waging a high-stakes legal battle in the months to come.

“The Westminster system isn’t working for Scotland and hasn’t done so for a very long time,” Sturgeon said in an interview before the election with Washington Post stringer Amanda Ferguson. “We have right now a Westminster system that leads to Tory governments we in Scotland don’t vote for — imposing policies, like Brexit and austerity, that do us harm.”



Both independence movements share an explicit fealty to the ideals and aspirations of the European Union. Scottish and Catalan secessionists argue that their nationalism is anchored not in nostalgia for a lost past, but a vision of a post-national future, where their multicultural societies can be tethered to the cosmopolitan European project. The European Union has studiously resisted offering much support for their ambitions.

Sturgeon insists that Brexit, brought into effect by a 2016 referendum, makes her case all the more urgent. “There has been a huge change in circumstances since the last independence referendum,” she told The Post. “Then, people were categorically told that the only way to protect Scotland’s place in Europe was to reject independence. Scotland now faces being dragged out of the E.U. and the world’s biggest single market — which is around eight times the size of the U.K. market — against its will.”

Alfred Bosch, the de facto foreign minister of Catalonia’s regional government, echoed this commitment to Brussels in an interview during a visit to Washington last month. “Europe emerges from the Second World War saying enough is enough. Enough intolerance, war, racism, fascism. … We believe in that,” he told Today’s WorldView. “We believe in Europe. We are not Brexiters, we are Remainers.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/12/17/could-scotland-become-next-catalonia/

Someone needs to, what do you say, “vaporize” this woman. This creature is worse than any parasite or plague to exist on this land.

 

[Billy no mates]

Someone needs to, what do you say, “vaporize” this woman. This creature is worse than any parasite or plague to exist on this land.

Seems a bit harsh mate , what's your problem with Wee Jimmie Krankie ?.

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Oceanmachine]

If Scottland leaves Northern Ireland might to. And to be honest that makes sense

But Catalonia deserves independence too. Gibraltar to

 

[The Merchant]

Let them go independent, go broke and then come crawling back to Mummy.

We'll either choose to become independent or not (as we did last referendum) no one will "let" us.

Mummy is ticked out more than a Leith junkie atm with no manafacturing base and/or natural resources beyond her increasingly shitty gaff being used by the financial elite to bed down on whenever they want a cheap ride.

Going broke? You had a look at the UK balance sheet of late? Last month was the largest ever borrowing month in UK history and it's just going to continue.

 

[The Merchant]

Someone needs to, what do you say, “vaporize” this woman. This creature is worse than any parasite or plague to exist on this land.

Why are you spelling like an American? Weird innit?

 

[Arkain2K]

Why coronavirus will force the SNP to entirely remake the case for Scottish independence
In a new era of uncertainty and risk, a return to the old arguments for separation is no longer possible.

The SNP likes to consider itself politically radical – an anti-establishment insurgency that would run Scotland more virtuously, more harmoniously, more Scottishly, than the British state has managed for the past 300 or so years. That the SNP has been in government for 13 years – by which time Alexander the Great had no more worlds to conquer – and that its record, to be kind, is mixed, undermines neither its claim to plucky upstart status nor to proficiency (at least, according to the SNP).

If true, then the post-coronavirus era promises to be a good time for the party, as it does for radicals everywhere. A world waits to be remade. Sacred cows are for the broth pot. The fusty are at bay. It is a rare chance to try new things.

Independence is itself a big idea, of course, if a somewhat blunt one. Before the pandemic struck it seemed entirely achievable, as a posh, right-wing, pro-Brexit Conservative government at Westminster moved the UK further and further away from what we might term the Scottish ideal. The trials, tribulations and revenge lust of Alex Salmond aside, there was no real threat to the SNP’s eminence, or to Nicola Sturgeon’s status as First Minister. The party would walk the 2021 devolved election – the only questions were whether it would secure a majority of seats to enable that second independence referendum, and whether it could tempt the Scottish electorate’s floating middle over to its side of the argument.

How quaint those times seem. Like a village suddenly overwhelmed by a burst dam, the independence debate sits submerged in the Covid-19 flood, overwhelmed by this massive natural force – out of sight, out of mind, its foundations subject to sudden and intense new stresses, the possibility of rescue as yet unclear.

There is no fresh polling to tell us where the public now stands on independence, in part because our newspapers are fighting for their existence and don’t have the cash for costly surveys. And, anyway, only the most diehard will be worrying about future constitutional arrangements rather than their job, their kids’ schooling, and their granny’s survival.

But that doesn’t mean coronavirus isn’t upending the debate. It is, after all, upending everything else. Sturgeon’s focus is on fighting the pandemic, a task she is dispatching with impressive grace, empathy and honesty. But somewhere in her mind, in that space permanently reserved for calculating the odds on independence, alarm bells will be ringing.

This crisis has delivered a lesson in the power of the British state and its institutions. Rishi Sunak has added something like £60bn to public spending, and another £330bn in loan guarantees to companies. The most impressive and reassuring presences on our TV screens have been chief medical officer Chris Whitty and chief scientific adviser Patrick Vallance, flanking whichever cabinet minister has been sent out for the day, like a pair of super-brained, line-graph-wielding bodyguards.

The Thursday night applause for the NHS has no national boundaries – Scots are banging their pots as much for doctors, nurses and care workers in Bolton or Swansea or Belfast as we are for those closer to home. The terrible stories of the plague’s victims – mothers, father, sons, daughters, immigrants and natives alike – elicit emotional solidarity. The plight of Boris Johnson and the Queen’s pitch-perfect broadcast will have tugged at many Scots’ humanity and even half-submerged patriotism. The governments in Edinburgh and London are largely working together in the way devolutionists intended. There hasn’t been a coordinated global response to Covid-19, but the British family has come together to look after each other.

All that enforced home time means people are spending hours with BBC news presenters, with Lorraine Kelly and dreary afternoon quiz shows and perhaps even Eamonn Holmes and Piers Morgan. The country, in short, is functioning as one, culturally, politically and economically, in a way that was perhaps thought lost for good.

In due course we will learn what, if any, impact this has had on voters’ constitutional views. The pre-crisis crisis of Brexit had already raised some questions about Scots’ tolerance for layering economic uncertainty on economic uncertainty. Add to that two million UK unemployed, businesses going to the wall, cuts to GDP, and high levels of debt and it doesn’t make for great pro-indy propaganda ads: “We’re completely broke – let’s throw the dice, ya bass!”

It is also the case that there will be some serious governing to do and some big choices to be made. The state and the private sector are financially intertwined as never before – how is that unravelled? What is the future role of the state? How do we balance this new metric of value – key workers, community, health – against a return to market economics and wealth creation?

As Mark Carney wrote in the Economist last week, “entire populations are experiencing the fears of the unemployed and sensing the anxiety that comes with inadequate or inaccessible healthcare. These lessons will not soon be forgotten.”

Society would in future expect that “public values help shape private value”, wrote Carney. “When pushed, societies have prioritised health first and foremost, and then looked to deal with the economic consequences. In this crisis, we know we need to act as an interdependent community, not independent individuals, so the values of economic dynamism and efficiency have been joined by those of solidarity, fairness, responsibility and compassion.”

This is what confronts Sturgeon, as it does Johnson and many other world leaders. The scale of the opportunity for progressives and would-be radicals is matched only by the scale of the challenge. Amid this titanic task, in a newborn era of uncertainty and risk, a return to the same old arguments about Scottish independence holds little appeal. The case for separation, like everything else, must be addressed anew.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...np-entirely-remake-case-scottish-independence

 

[The Merchant]

Sturgeon is potentially fucked after Covid-19 anyway. Salmond has intiated a ceasefire cause of it but her cabal tried to nail him first by review which the courts ruled was illegal and then by Moorov Doctrine in the courts which was judged by jury not to have any weight. As soon as Covid has been dealt with Salmond will come out all guns blazing.

 

[curryjunkie]

I understand that you are a fucking weirdo

video not available, what was it?

 

[MayhemMonkey]

video not available, what was it?

it was so long ago I actually cant remember lol

 

[Arkain2K]

Scottish nationalists lay groundwork for second independence referendum​

The Scottish National Party published a "Roadmap to Referendum" on Saturday, laying out plans for another vote on Scottish independence just as the United Kingdom grapples with COVID-19 and the impact of Brexit.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who would have to agree to a new referendum, argues there is no need for a new vote after independence was rejected by Scottish voters in 2014.

But the SNP has said that if it wins a parliamentary majority at elections scheduled for May 6, it will pass its own bill so that a referendum can take place once the pandemic is over.

It says that the UK government will either have to agree to it or take legal action to dispute the legal basis of the referendum.

"Such a legal challenge would be vigorously opposed by an SNP Scottish government," said the document, dated Jan. 24.

Polls show that Scottish nationalists are on course to win a record majority in elections for Scotland's devolved parliament.

Scots voted 55-45% against independence in a referendum in 2014, but Brexit and the British government's handling of the COVID-19 crisis have bolstered support for the SNP, with most polls showing a majority now favour breaking away.

A poll published on The Times website on Saturday showed another potential threat to the future of the UK, with 51% of Northern Irish voters saying they favoured a referendum about their future within the next five years, compared to 44% who oppose it.

Support for a United Ireland stands at 42% according to the polls, versus 47% who object to Northern Ireland leaving the UK.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN29S0MY

 

[Lancer30404]

The Scots and other independence movements in the UK are very badly led and weird.
They seem to flip flop on independence, anytime the economic issues change.
There is no genuine Nationalist feeling, which sinks these movements. They really betray their trust.

That said, now that the economic issue is pushing for independence, it might actually happen.

 

[Proud American]

Every people has a right to self determination and even small nations should be free.