Law Coronavirus the US GOV'T Response analysis Thread

[MicroBrew]

Do you not have any critical thinking skills? DONT buy them if you are a healthy individual. There is a mass shortage of them because people who will never need them are hoarding them, stopping health care workers and people close to outbreaks from buying them. Try to actually think before you post.

You obviously don't think "critically" since my issue is with the dishonest statement from the SG that the masks won't protect people.

Who are you or the government to decide who should be protected and who should not be. These masks are made by private enterprise and private citizens are paying money to buy them.

 

[MicroBrew]

Theoretically. There are also millions of people wearing them, who don't actually need to. They don't even know how this fucker spreads yet.

In general though, there really shouldn't be a shortage at all. For the public, or the health workers. This should not be an issue for anyone. They're just some pieces of cloth.

If you are living in a place where there is virtually no cases , then wearing them is extreme. But if you are in a region with some cases , lots of international travel and visitors, then even if the odds are low, people still feel they would be the unlucky ones, so they want to mitigate the risk.

 

[HereticBD]

If you are living in a place where there is virtually no cases , then wearing them is extreme.

That's a LOT of places though. Like here in Ontario, we have something like a whole 15 confirmed cases. Everyone is wearing masks. It's just panic, not based in any rationality.

That said, and I'll repeat myself here, it shouldn't be an issue at all. There should be plenty of masks to go around. This shortage makes no sense.

 

[MikeMcMann]

You obviously don't think "critically" since my issue is with the dishonest statement from the SG that the masks won't protect people.

Who are you or the government to decide who should be protected and who should not be. These masks are made by private enterprise and private citizens are paying money to buy them.

And 3M has just ramped up production to make more. You know why? Because current inventories are being bought.

If people do not buy now and the gov't does not either then they won't make more causing more of a back log later.

The gov't should simply mass order all the masks available now for their workers. Problem solved. Then 3M and other manufacturers will scramble to make more. RInse and repeat until the gov't say 'ok we have enough' and then the citizens can get the next batches.

 

[MicroBrew]

That's a LOT of places though. Like here in Ontario, we have something like a whole 15 confirmed cases. Everyone is wearing masks. It's just panic, not based in any rationality.

That said, and I'll repeat myself here, it shouldn't be an issue at all. There should be plenty of masks to go around. This shortage makes no sense.

Ofcourse the risk is low , but people aren't thinking about how they won't get the virus because of low odds, they are thinking they could be the few unlucky ones. There are undoubtedly people who are infected who don't know they are; if they are wearing the masks as intended, they are decreasing the risk of transmission to others.

A beneficial side effect is protecting people from catching the yearly Flu virus, which is rampant this time of the year.

 

[HereticBD]

Ofcourse the risk is low , but people aren't thinking about how they won't get the virus because of low odds, they are thinking they could be the few unlucky ones.

Which is irrational, due to fear. You have a better chance of catching a disease from touching a toilet handle. Ain't nobody wearing gloves. In fact, latex gloves might be the better answer here, as it has been theorized that it's being transmitted through fecal matter.

There are undoubtedly people who are infected who don't know they are; if they are wearing the masks as intended, they are decreasing the risk of transmission to others.

I don't believe they even know how this shit is transmitted. The masks could very well be a fashion accessory, for all intents and purposes.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in the wrong, as the shortage of masks shouldn't even be an issue.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Theoretically. There are also millions of people wearing them, who don't actually need to. They don't even know how this fucker spreads yet.

In general though, there really shouldn't be a shortage at all. For the public, or the health workers. This should not be an issue for anyone. They're just some pieces of cloth.

How do you define need in someone wearing a mask? It's a preventative tool.....

If you want to ask about shortages, first ask as to why Trump has been pushing double digit cuts to relevant agencies since coming into office, and failing to attract talent to these agencies. He defended massive cuts to the CDC by claiming we could just hire them all back, after all.

It's amazing you'll support these retards.

 

[MicroBrew]

Which is irrational, due to fear. You have a better chance of catching a disease from touching a toilet handle. Ain't nobody wearing gloves. In fact, latex gloves might be the better answer here, as it has been theorized that it's being transmitted through fecal matter.



I don't believe they even know how this shit is transmitted. The masks could very well be a fashion accessory, for all intents and purposes.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in the wrong, as the shortage of masks shouldn't even be an issue.

There was a study done at the Hospital in Wuhan; they found that medical staff who wore masks had NO cases of infection while a significant number of medical staff who were not wearing masks did become infected, despite the former being the most exposed to the virus.
https://www.livescience.com/respirators-prevent-coronavirus-infection-study.html

Re. bolded sentence below; pretty telling.

"The medical staff in our hospital has not realized that the 'flu' was caused by a novel coronavirus named SARS-CoV-2 (2019-nCoV) with high risk of transmission," senior author Dr. Xinghuan Wang, a director and professor in the Department of Urology at the Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University, told Live Science in an email. "Therefore, at that time, the medical staff (especially surgical doctors and nurses) [did] not wear any kind of mask when talking to patients without fever," and they only wore medical masks while delivering treatment or surgery, he said.

As Wang's study revealed, rates of infection differed between doctors and nurses with respirators and those without.

Specifically, the authors examined data collected from Jan. 2-22 at six departments within the Zhongnan Hospital. Within the 10-day period, the hospital treated 28 individuals with confirmed cases of COVID-19 and 58 "suspicious" cases. The medical staff in each department followed different safety protocols when treating the patients.

About 280 medical staff in the hospital's Respiratory, ICU and Infectious Diseases departments wore N95 respirators and washed their hands frequently, while about 215 in the departments of Hepatobiliary Pancreatic Surgery, Trauma and Microsurgery, and Urology wore no masks and disinfected their hands less frequently. Although the respirator group encountered confirmed cases more often than the unmasked group — more than 730% more often — no one in the respirator group became infected.

In comparison, 10 people in the unmasked group contracted the novel disease, despite treating fewer infected patients.

------

If masks were of little efficacy, I wouldn't expect Chinese doctors (in Wuhan) to beg for more masks.

China’s Doctors, Fighting the Coronavirus, Beg for Masks
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/world/asia/china-coronavirus-doctors.html

 

[MikeMcMann]

Which is irrational, due to fear. You have a better chance of catching a disease from touching a toilet handle. Ain't nobody wearing gloves. In fact, latex gloves might be the better answer here, as it has been theorized that it's being transmitted through fecal matter.



I don't believe they even know how this shit is transmitted. The masks could very well be a fashion accessory, for all intents and purposes.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in the wrong, as the shortage of masks shouldn't even be an issue.

The point is not whether the people are getting minimal or significant protection or just some placebo stress reduction effect by having the masks.

The point is you have a high ranking gov't official saying 'don't buy the masks. THey will not protect you from the spread of infection", and "you are eating up all the inventory of the masks leaving our workers at risk of infection as they cannot get one'.

 

[HereticBD]

How do you define need in someone wearing a mask? It's a preventative tool.....

If you want to ask about shortages, first ask as to why Trump has been pushing double digit cuts to relevant agencies since coming into office, and failing to attract talent to these agencies. He defended massive cuts to the CDC by claiming we could just hire them all back, after all.

It's amazing you'll support these retards.

There are shortages EVERYWHERE. It's got nothing to do with Trump. Not that I expect a TDS sufferer like you to understand, though.

 

[hillelslovak87]

There are shortages EVERYWHERE. It's got nothing to do with Trump. Not that I expect a TDS sufferer like you to understand, though.

Yes, and perhaps there wouldn't be shortages if we had a competent administration in charge, one that doesn't put Mr. Pray the Gay Away in charge of the response to a possible pandemic after years of massive cuts to bodies they couldn't staff due to putting incompetent Trump donors and backers into key positions across the admin. They're also telling everyone there's nothing to see here instead of the truth (which wouldn't require fear mongering) and silencing those who speak of the inadequacies of the response at the highest levels.

Whenever his actions create terrible situations or make bad ones worse, suddenly he has nothing to do with anything. Weird how it always pans out like that with you guys, quite like how you can't ever counter the whole "Running the government like a skeleton crew of crazy pilferers" thing without pretending as if it's the deep state around him manuevering all these shitty choices into his skull.

 

[HereticBD]

Yes, and perhaps there wouldn't be shortages if we had a competent administration in charge

Oh', so I guess there are no competent administrations worldwide, considering the shortages are worldwide.

Hot take. No TDS here. No sir.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Oh', so I guess there are no competent administrations worldwide, considering the shortages are worldwide.

Hot take. No TDS here. No sir.

Our nation has unique production capabilities, especially in comparison to developing nations. Furthermore, one might expect a unique level of competency and preparedness from the world's leading economy, and the nation that provides more for disease research than any other. Granted, Trump has reduced funding for these programs wholesale, but still.

Fitting, your sidestep of what the admin is actually performing here.

And lastly, let us add the deliberate design of toilet seats to the things you fail to comprehend.

"You have a better chance of catching a disease from touching a toilet handle."

 

[MikeMcMann]

There are shortages EVERYWHERE. It's got nothing to do with Trump. Not that I expect a TDS sufferer like you to understand, though.

I just ordered my mask this past week in Canada with no issues.

3M just announced they are ramping up production to meet DEMAND as I posted in the other thread. They are doing that because people are buying.

Do you know how you get rid of shortages? You don't stop people from buying and leave the inventory on the shelf. You let people buy it who want it and then replace the stock.

If you tell people not to buy now, and then things do get real bad later and people say 'f*ck it' and its a race to buy every mask, you then have back logged demand making meeting supply that much tougher.

It is far better to clear the back log NOW in the States before things get serious but letting those who want masks get them and then letting 3M and other restock..

Heck if the US gov't wants they can simply demand every single mask be sold to them now and clear all stock and make the citizens wait until they are done and that is an OK option too.


the worst option, is to now, while there is not a big crisis in the US tell people to not buy and leave the stock on the shelf, ...the gov't does not buy either, so the manufacturer makes no new ones. Then if shit hits the fan all that demand comes rushing at once.

 

[HereticBD]

I just ordered my mask this past week in Canada with no issues.

I guess that means that there isn't a shortage then, and the concerns of doctors in Canada are unfounded. Little Mikey got a mask. Nothing to see here.

LOL

 

[hillelslovak87]

I just ordered my mask this past week in Canada with no issues.

3M just announced they are ramping up production to meet DEMAND as I posted in the other thread. They are doing that because people are buying.

Do you know how you get rid of shortages? You don't stop people from buying and leave the inventory on the shelf. You let people buy it who want it and then replace the stock.

If you tell people not to buy now, and then things do get real bad later and people say 'f*ck it' and its a race to buy every mask, you then have back logged demand making meeting supply that much tougher.

It is far better to clear the back log NOW in the States before things get serious but letting those who want masks get them and then letting 3M and other restock..

Heck if the US gov't wants they can simply demand every single mask be sold to them now and clear all stock and make the citizens wait until they are done and that is an OK option too.


the worst option, is to now, while there is not a big crisis in the US tell people to not buy and leave the stock on the shelf, ...the gov't does not buy either, so the manufacturer makes no new ones. Then if shit hits the fan all that demand comes rushing at once.

Odd to see a public health issue regarding a transmittable disease, and these guys are so devoted to defending Trump, they'll argue about how face masks don't lead to lessening rates of disease transmission.

Same idiots who talk about how great Japan is for not letting teh Mooslims in...........

 

[hillelslovak87]

I guess that means that there isn't a shortage then, and the concerns of doctors in Canada are unfounded. Little Mikey got a mask. Nothing to see here.

LOL

Funny thing about supply and demand, it fluctuates. Add supply and demand to the concepts you can't grasp.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Oh', so I guess there are no competent administrations worldwide, considering the shortages are worldwide.

Hot take. No TDS here. No sir.

God you are stupid.

There have been oil and gas shortage crisis many times over the past decades. World wide shortages and prices spiking.

The US in those instances starts to release their strategic reserve. DO you know what the fuck that is Heretic?

It is the Readiness or Preparedness reserve they have IN advance so when a shortage hits they can mitigate it.

It does not fix the problem outright but it buys the US time for the problem to fix itself as new supply comes on to meet the demand.

Had the US not gutted its readiness prior to this they may have had stock or moved quicker to get it.

So not being ready, not having stock, not having people hurts EVEN IF there is a shortage. You cannot point and say 'shortage' as it that then absolves gov't of all blame.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I guess that means that there isn't a shortage then, and the concerns of doctors in Canada are unfounded. Little Mikey got a mask. Nothing to see here.

LOL

See my prior post. You are too stupid and need to leave this discussion if the above is all you got from my post and do not understand and cannot comprehend how 3M ramping up production and getting out masks not to those who want them helps alleviate problems tomorrow when this might just be so much more severe.

And before you say 'hey Mikey, if their is a gas shortage the US cannot possibly have reserves due to preparing' as if you are actually making a point, .,.. just don't.

Fuck you are painfully stupid.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Funny thing about supply and demand, it fluctuates. Add supply and demand to the concepts you can't grasp.

Yup. There is not a single typically conservative concept that Trump defenders won't abandon if they think they smell a hint of criticism that could go his way.

Now its the concept of Preparedness. Each person taking care of themself instead of waiting for gov't to do it that is being attacked.

It is imminently sensible to let every American who wants a mask to get one now while there is no emergency.and while the manufacturers can ramp up supply to meet demand.

To tell them 'no don't do it. there is no emergency here now' and for the gov't to then not buy the masks just backlogs demand should this hit true emergency levels in the US. everyone who hears the gov't cry to wait now, surely would not wait if the US ends up like China at the virus' peak. There will be no one delaying at that point to ensure a health worker can get their first. It will be every person for themselves.