Wrestling Catch Wrestling United

How did the June 7th invitational go? Did they allow chokes?


Would be great if they could really get something legit off the ground as far as a format for Catch guys to compete.

What is Dr. Ramirez's Catch background? As of 2012 it sounds like he trained with Billy a total of maybe 4 times at weekend seminars. He competed in the Wigan Catch tourney, right? Any other info on his Catch training? Reading up on him it sounds like he is a bit of a "Jack of all trades" with mostly Kung Fu/Chinese Sandra wrestling as his background.
 
imho a grass roots approach to catch competitions with simple pins and sub wins (and points) would do the martial art wonders.
 
Title Fight Productions said:
Dan I have a brown belt at my academy that loves to just stall in turtle and defend, I will be trying out that hammer lock you showed mid video! Something new he won't be used to!
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Well that didn't work for shit today! I guess I didn't have enough pressure on ther body to stop them from just rolling foreword and me ending in guard or triangled, lol!
 
Title Fight Productions said:
How did the June 7th invitational go? Did they allow chokes?


Would be great if they could really get something legit off the ground as far as a format for Catch guys to compete.

What is Dr. Ramirez's Catch background? As of 2012 it sounds like he trained with Billy a total of maybe 4 times at weekend seminars. He competed in the Wigan Catch tourney, right? Any other info on his Catch training? Reading up on him it sounds like he is a bit of a "Jack of all trades" with mostly Kung Fu/Chinese Sandra wrestling as his background.
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Raul Ramirez is a nice guy. I split a room with him during one week International Snake Pur Wigan seminar 2012. My impresion of Raul is: humble, calm and inteligent. To be honest, Chinese menicine stuff is little weard to me but Raul is not your "sereotypical" woodoo-shaman. Raul also did the International Snake Pit Wigan week 2013. He compited in both times.

The LA competrition did not allow chokes.
 
OKMS said:
Raul Ramirez is a nice guy. I split a room with him during one week International Snake Pur Wigan seminar 2012. My impresion of Raul is: humble, calm and inteligent. To be honest, Chinese menicine stuff is little weard to me but Raul is not your "sereotypical" woodoo-shaman. Raul also did the International Snake Pit Wigan week 2013. He compited in both times.

The LA competrition did not allow chokes.
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I'm sure he is a great guy, not trying to disparage him at all! I'm just curious as I get a bit concerned when someone with a limited Catch background just steps in, starts up a foundation with a "Catchy name" or whatever and starts talking about what is and isn't and "unifying" Catch in there vision.

I mean someone needs to I guess, I would just like to hear why he thinks he is the guy to do it. Sounds like he has a legit interest, but a lot of times with Catch the interest comes before the work and time put in.

I've only read a few interviews from the guy and attempted to research his martial arts background.

Hopefully he is a positive influence on this new craze of "saving Catch".
 
First pro mma fight of one of our guy!!! Max controled where the fight goes with his cacc and won!

 
rmongler said:
if leg hold proficiency sets cacc apart, it would be in only a relative sense due to the overspecializing tendency of many modern jiujitsu players. a strategy to pursue leglocks as a prior is more sambo in my mind, instead of as a more contingent tactic of backfighting strategy (ideally in my view).

if i had to pick any general theme to distinguish cacc, i would of course emphasize *wrestling*, a coherent sense of 'cacc style' ground fighting must be understood in this context. the benefits of top position cant be overstressed, and if you are confident in your wrestling skills, then returning to your feet becomes a viable strategy from the bottom. this is significant because it is often easier and more prudent to simply attempt to stand up vs attempting a reversal or submission from the bottom.
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If you look at any modern CACC great (early 90s and onwards) they are all pretty very well versed in leglocks and in many cases leglocks are their primary weapon (Funaki's lineage). This I believe was influenced by Modern CACC's Pro Wrestling roots.

I agree with the wrestling aspect, but that doesn't just mean taking people down and holding top position like many of the people in this thread pretend to do. If you look at the Frank v Goes fight Frank tries to bridge out of pretty much everything as opposed to the BJJ way of hip escaping. This a fundamental difference between the styles that most miss due to either not studying CACC properly or not being a well versed enough grappler to spot the difference in strategy.

This is why I don't think "wrestling" in the stereotypical take down and control mindset is the only or even main trademark of CACC. That is a trademark of college/freestyle/Greco wrestling.

Part of the reason many of us were drawn to CACC was also the go for the kill mentality (which in many ways led to giving up top position in order to chase a submission). This mentality is directly from Pro Wrestling were the primary objective is to entertain the crowed. And as mentioned earlier the then unique submissions that were forbidden in BJJ yet used regularly by CACC guys in MMA and/or early grappling competition.

Reading any of Sakuraba's autobiographies reflects this attitude of entertaining the crowd and putting on a show and he is arguably the most iconic Catch fighter that will ever live.

Many people in this thread seem to look down/forget/want to forget CACC's obvious Pro Wrestling influence and want to return to the shitty 1920s version of CACC. I think Pro Wrestling (in particular Japanese wrestling) had a major influence on the CACC mentality and also introduced CACC fighters to other martial art techniques, whether it be submissions or karate kicks.

This led to some of the most exciting and unorthodox fighters in the world that not only let to the submissions of the first BJJ black belts but fueled early MMA (Lions Den/Pancrase/Takada Dojo). Without them MMA wouldnt exist and I bet none of us would even know what the hell CACC is, let alone UFC or MMA in general.
 
Title Fight Productions said:
I'm sure he is a great guy, not trying to disparage him at all! I'm just curious as I get a bit concerned when someone with a limited Catch background just steps in, starts up a foundation with a "Catchy name" or whatever and starts talking about what is and isn't and "unifying" Catch in there vision.

I mean someone needs to I guess, I would just like to hear why he thinks he is the guy to do it. Sounds like he has a legit interest, but a lot of times with Catch the interest comes before the work and time put in.

I've only read a few interviews from the guy and attempted to research his martial arts background.

Hopefully he is a positive influence on this new craze of "saving Catch".
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I just know that he has studied, coached, and competed in sanda/sanshou before finding Catch. I guess Raul's interest and training goes hand to hand. He got spacial mention from Roy Wood to be the most improved participant on last years International Snake Pit Wigan camp.

I think its great and very important to have catch back as a sport of its own, to have catch-competitions that is.
 
Article and video related to the recent CACC match at UCLA.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/6/27/5849542/catch-wrestling-alliance-sport-frank-gotch

I've been training in the grappling arts for almost 30 years, the last year or so doing CACC in Los Angeles. Currently enjoying a little bit of a break, but helping out where I can such as the tournament. One thing I'll say about CACC vs BJJ, CACC hurts A LOT more during and after practice than any BJJ class I've taken.

Video only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfSysjI5miA
 
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hayasa said:
Article and video related to the recent CACC match at UCLA.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/6/27/5849542/catch-wrestling-alliance-sport-frank-gotch

I've been training in the grappling arts for almost 30 years, the last year or so doing CACC in Los Angeles. Currently enjoying a little bit of a break, but helping out where I can such as the tournament. One thing I'll say about CACC vs BJJ, CACC hurts A LOT more during and after practice than any BJJ class I've taken.

Video only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfSysjI5miA
Click to expand...

I don't see what makes catch more painful than BJJ? Training at a competition BJJ School with people gunning for world titles hurts a lot more than the idiots down the road who have no grappling real experience but opened a "catch wrestling" club. Mainly because they literally all have nothing for me.

Alot of the dick moves that cause pain, such as grinding your elbow into places you shouldnt can be found by many a white belt at BJJ gyms.

In regards to the intensity of training I doubt any catch gym trains harder than the top BJJ gyms that actually have real world class athletes, not amateurs like Kris The Fraud.

Catch might have more stand up but any BJJ school worth a damn starts from the feet.

I love CACC, but I hate the whole douche vibe its wannabe practitioners give that it is "harder" than BJJ or that BJJ is "soft". Yes, Barnett says it to promote himself, but that doesnt mean its true at all.

Those idiots that opened a catch gym in my town talk on facebook about how destructive and painful catch is and how soft BJJ is. I met these guys once at a seminar and I (amongst others) destroyed them pretty bad. I don't see how them rolling amongst themselves somehow got more intense than athletic competitor purples and above beating the crap out of them. Its funny...They claim they don't do BJJ because they are only about "real street fighting" yet they couldnt stop me taking them down and knee riding them. Dickheads.
 
Supereem said:
I don't see what makes catch more painful than BJJ? Training at a competition BJJ School with people gunning for world titles hurts a lot more than the idiots down the road who have no grappling real experience but opened a "catch wrestling" club. Mainly because they literally all have nothing for me.

Alot of the dick moves that cause pain, such as grinding your elbow into places you shouldnt can be found by many a white belt at BJJ gyms.

In regards to the intensity of training I doubt any catch gym trains harder than the top BJJ gyms that actually have real world class athletes, not amateurs like Kris The Fraud.

Catch might have more stand up but any BJJ school worth a damn starts from the feet.

I love CACC, but I hate the whole douche vibe its wannabe practitioners give that it is "harder" than BJJ or that BJJ is "soft". Yes, Barnett says it to promote himself, but that doesnt mean its true at all.

Those idiots that opened a catch gym in my town talk on facebook about how destructive and painful catch is and how soft BJJ is. I met these guys once at a seminar and I (amongst others) destroyed them pretty bad. I don't see how them rolling amongst themselves somehow got more intense than athletic competitor purples and above beating the crap out of them. Its funny...They claim they don't do BJJ because they are only about "real street fighting" yet they couldnt stop me taking them down and knee riding them. Dickheads.
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Good story bro.

You like cacc? Realy? Dam, immagine if you dont! Lol!
 
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Supereem said:
I don't see what makes catch more painful than BJJ? Training at a competition BJJ School with people gunning for world titles hurts a lot more than the idiots down the road who have no grappling real experience but opened a "catch wrestling" club. Mainly because they literally all have nothing for me.

Alot of the dick moves that cause pain, such as grinding your elbow into places you shouldnt can be found by many a white belt at BJJ gyms.

In regards to the intensity of training I doubt any catch gym trains harder than the top BJJ gyms that actually have real world class athletes, not amateurs like Kris The Fraud.

Catch might have more stand up but any BJJ school worth a damn starts from the feet.

I love CACC, but I hate the whole douche vibe its wannabe practitioners give that it is "harder" than BJJ or that BJJ is "soft". Yes, Barnett says it to promote himself, but that doesnt mean its true at all.

Those idiots that opened a catch gym in my town talk on facebook about how destructive and painful catch is and how soft BJJ is. I met these guys once at a seminar and I (amongst others) destroyed them pretty bad. I don't see how them rolling amongst themselves somehow got more intense than athletic competitor purples and above beating the crap out of them. Its funny...They claim they don't do BJJ because they are only about "real street fighting" yet they couldnt stop me taking them down and knee riding them. Dickheads.
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Sounds like your beef is with some non legit dummies that claim Catch, not with real Catch. That would be like me getting mad at an Ari Bolden or some guy who promoted himself and opened a garage gym. I will say the fact that they are coming out of there garage to compete/train with others is a HUGE step! Lol.

I would say he main thing that makes a Catch practice harder than a BJJ practice is as follows.....

1. A lot more standing takedowns
2. The riding and turnovers are different and more brutal. I know that sounds gimmicky, but it's not. Wrestling is a hard nosed sport that you grind your opponent into submission. Turning a guy in wrestling is different than sweeping or taking the back in BJJ. It's just a rougher style.
3. Neck/jaw cranks

I don't think Catch as a submission art is better than BJJ, but it does hurt a lot more. Not sure that is something to "plant your flag" on.

The real problem is guys promoting there art soley off being more mean than BJJ. But you have to realize, BJJ is the big kid on the block, so people will challenge it to try and rise up I suppose.
 
Supereem said:
I don't see what makes catch more painful than BJJ? Training at a competition BJJ School with people gunning for world titles hurts a lot more than the idiots down the road who have no grappling real experience but opened a "catch wrestling" club. Mainly because they literally all have nothing for me.

Alot of the dick moves that cause pain, such as grinding your elbow into places you shouldnt can be found by many a white belt at BJJ gyms.

In regards to the intensity of training I doubt any catch gym trains harder than the top BJJ gyms that actually have real world class athletes, not amateurs like Kris The Fraud.

Catch might have more stand up but any BJJ school worth a damn starts from the feet.

I love CACC, but I hate the whole douche vibe its wannabe practitioners give that it is "harder" than BJJ or that BJJ is "soft". Yes, Barnett says it to promote himself, but that doesnt mean its true at all.

Those idiots that opened a catch gym in my town talk on facebook about how destructive and painful catch is and how soft BJJ is. I met these guys once at a seminar and I (amongst others) destroyed them pretty bad. I don't see how them rolling amongst themselves somehow got more intense than athletic competitor purples and above beating the crap out of them. Its funny...They claim they don't do BJJ because they are only about "real street fighting" yet they couldnt stop me taking them down and knee riding them. Dickheads.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. It's not just starting from the feet that makes CACC more painful and violent than BJJ. All of the banned moves in BJJ are just part of normal CACC curriculum like spine locks, neck cranks, hip locks, body chokes, head chokes, heel hooks, neck locks, short arm scissors, muscle slicers, in addition to all of the other submissions that are legal in BJJ. A lot of the set ups hurt more as well. The other thing that differs from BJJ is its philosophy and emphasis, which is on doing damage. BJJ's philosophy is "Keep it playful" and "Jiut Jitsu for everyone." Hope you can see the difference.

Oh and I've trained with Cobrina, Xande, Shawn Williams, Marcelo Garcia, Renzo Gracie and I walked out of all those places with not a single bruise on me. Arte Suave, indeed.
 
In talks with a gym near Calgary right now, they're wanting to get me helping out and maybe running their grappling program (as its mostly kickboxing focused right now). Lets see if in the next 6 months or so we can have a CACC school in south west Alberta!
 
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