Wrestling Catch Wrestling United

[Rallarsvingare]

What are the myths as you see it?

Didnt rewatch the whole video but some quick parts.

They are wrong about the snake pit, it was quite a "new" gym started in 1948. Not earlier as both implied and mentioned in the video. The japanese, Maeda and Kimura didnt visit the snake pit.

 

[Kforcer]

Didnt rewatch the whole video but some quick parts.

They are wrong about the snake pit, it was quite a "new" gym started in 1948. Not earlier as both implied and mentioned in the video. The japanese, Maeda and Kimura didnt visit the snake pit.

The claim that Masahiko Kimura visited the Snake Pit was repeated a few times. Chronologically, its certain possible. He knew and was friends with Karl Gotch, who of course trained there. Billy Robinson claimed that Kimura visited the Snake Pit, though I don't know that the claim is well-documented. But he certainly could've.

 

[Rallarsvingare]

The claim that Masahiko Kimura visited the Snake Pit was repeated a few times. Chronologically, its certain possible. He knew and was friends with Karl Gotch, who of course trained there. Billy Robinson claimed that Kimura visited the Snake Pit, though I don't know that the claim is well-documented. But he certainly could've.

Ive been to the snake pit several times. The first time japanese people showed up there was in the 90's from what I was told.

There's a lot of myths about the snake pit. Billy Robinson is the creator of most of em. Also Karl Gotch to some extent. From what Ive been told people in wigan just view it as kayfabe and a way to market their(Gotch and Robinson) catch wrestling. Also from what I understood both Gotch and Robinson thought that the snake pit was closed down, only Robinson found out that it was still around a few years before he passed.

People at the gym just laugh when they hear all the crazy stories about the gym.

 

[Kforcer]

Ive been to the snake pit several times. The first time japanese people showed up there was in the 90's from what I was told.

There's a lot of myths about the snake pit. Billy Robinson is the creator of most of em. Also Karl Gotch to some extent. From what Ive been told people in wigan just view it as kayfabe and a way to market their(Gotch and Robinson) catch wrestling. Also from what I understood both Gotch and Robinson thought that the snake pit was closed down, only Robinson found out that it was still around a few years before he passed.

People at the gym just laugh when they hear all the crazy stories about the gym.

I would think there had to have been Japanese guys that went there and trained, given the way Japanese wrestlers tend to do that (make pilgrimages to the places where people they revere trained). I know at the very least Tatsumi Fujinami famously went down there, but I wouldn't think he would've been the only one.

Anyway, of course, Robinson's story of Kimura going to the Snake Pit and getting smashed isn't something I take too seriously. This is Kimura we're talking about. But, given that Karl and Kimura were friends, I just wouldn't be surprised that two friends that like grappling might at some point end up at a place like the Snake Pit. But who knows, maybe they never got on the mat. As I recall, Kimura did praise Gotch's newazza. But I mean, I have good friends that grapple that I've never rolled with, crazier things have happened.

But of course I'm sure you're right about the myths. Again, the whole idea of Kimura being mediocre at the Snake Pit is obviously just not very credible.

 

[Rallarsvingare]

I would think there had to have been Japanese guys that went there and trained, given the way Japanese wrestlers tend to do that (make pilgrimages to the places where people they revere trained). I know at the very least Tatsumi Fujinami famously went down there, but I wouldn't think he would've been the only one.

Anyway, of course, Robinson's story of Kimura going to the Snake Pit and getting smashed isn't something I take too seriously. This is Kimura we're talking about. But, given that Karl and Kimura were friends, I just wouldn't be surprised that two friends that like grappling might at some point end up at a place like the Snake Pit. But who knows, maybe they never got on the mat. As I recall, Kimura did praise Gotch's newazza. But I mean, I have good friends that grapple that I've never rolled with, crazier things have happened.

But of course I'm sure you're right about the myths. Again, the whole idea of Kimura being mediocre at the Snake Pit is obviously just not very credible.

Yes, but as far I understood the japanese didnt travel to the snake pit until 1990. The wrestlers that came there from abroad were all from other european countries or former british colonies.

Fujinami is the one who recruited Roy Wood to Japan and they are very close. I actually met his son Leone Fujinami in the snake pit, I think it was in 2019, unfortunately he broke his leg right before the trip so he didnt wrestle anything.

If Im not mistaken I think Gotch met Kimura after he left the snake pit. And Im quite sure that if Kimura ever went there the snake pit would have a story about it. They do have stories about most wrestlers who visited and someone like Kimura would probably get mentioned. The book about Billy Riley got a long list of wrestlers and non are japanese.

The connection with Japan and the snake pit didnt start until Karl Gotch and then later Billy Robinson moved over there. And as I mentioned earlier, back then none of them knew that the snake pit still existed. The only recorded stories of japanese visitors starts in the 90's when Roy is the coach.

 

[Kforcer]

Yes, but as far I understood the japanese didnt travel to the snake pit until 1990. The wrestlers that came there from abroad were all from other european countries or former british colonies.

Fujinami is the one who recruited Roy Wood to Japan and they are very close. I actually met his son Leone Fujinami in the snake pit, I think it was in 2019, unfortunately he broke his leg right before the trip so he didnt wrestle anything.

If Im not mistaken I think Gotch met Kimura after he left the snake pit. And Im quite sure that if Kimura ever went there the snake pit would have a story about it. They do have stories about most wrestlers who visited and someone like Kimura would probably get mentioned. The book about Billy Riley got a long list of wrestlers and non are japanese.

The connection with Japan and the snake pit didnt start until Karl Gotch and then later Billy Robinson moved over there. And as I mentioned earlier, back then none of them knew that the snake pit still existed. The only recorded stories of japanese visitors starts in the 90's when Roy is the coach.

Okay, gotcha, I think maybe my timeline about Fujinami is off then. Its interesting that no Japanese wrestlers made if over there, as a lot of them did tour Japan and of course, you had guys like Funaki, Maeda and Sayama wrestling for World of Sport. Of course, most of that was in the 80's, so I guess they would've missed the Snake Pit.


Leone is a smooth operator on the mat...I think maybe his lack of size hurt him though, as far as marketing himself.

 

[Rallarsvingare]

Okay, gotcha, I think maybe my timeline about Fujinami is off then. Its interesting that no Japanese wrestlers made if over there, as a lot of them did tour Japan and of course, you had guys like Funaki, Maeda and Sayama wrestling for World of Sport. Of course, most of that was in the 80's, so I guess they would've missed the Snake Pit.


Leone is a smooth operator on the mat...I think maybe his lack of size hurt him though, as far as marketing himself.

Yea, but as I said earlier even Robinson or Gotch tought the place no longer existed. Roy also got a funny story about then they came to him and asked him about the snake pit and he had no clue what it was, he was used to the name Rileys gym. It was in the 90's when the japanese first went to lancashire to learn about the roots that they discovered that the famous snake pit was still around. Back then Roy was rarely teaching anything but freestyle wrestling since catch had died out and he renamed the gym to Aspull Wrestling club. He did teach some pro wrestlers catch but that was on rare occassions before the japanese came around.

So I guess that nobody knew it still existed is the reason that they didnt get any japanese visitors until the 1990s.

 

[Kforcer]

Yea, but as I said earlier even Robinson or Gotch tought the place no longer existed. Roy also got a funny story about then they came to him and asked him about the snake pit and he had no clue what it was, he was used to the name Rileys gym. It was in the 90's when the japanese first went to lancashire to learn about the roots that they discovered that the famous snake pit was still around. Back then Roy was rarely teaching anything but freestyle wrestling since catch had died out and he renamed the gym to Aspull Wrestling club. He did teach some pro wrestlers catch but that was on rare occassions before the japanese came around.

So I guess that nobody knew it still existed is the reason that they didnt get any japanese visitors until the 1990s.

That's some fascinating history. Is there any truth, you think, to the idea that Karl Gotch named the place? I seem to recall him saying something to that effect in an interview, that he was the one who called it "Snake Pit."

 

[Rallarsvingare]

That's some fascinating history. Is there any truth, you think, to the idea that Karl Gotch named the place? I seem to recall him saying something to that effect in an interview, that he was the one who called it "Snake Pit."

Yea, it probably was. Its the japanese who made the name snake pit popular and it must have been either Gotch or Robinson who created that name. From what Ive read my conclusion is that it must have been Gotch behind that nickname.

 

[MilkManUK]

I stopped in Wigan a couple of years ago whilst travelling to the Lake District. I thought whilst I'm there I'd go and have a look at the famous Snake Pit. It's quite hard to find, so I stopped to ask a couple of local council workers where it was and they had no clue what I was talking about, which surprised me, but I guess catch wrestling is still very much a niche sport. I thought it would have had much more of a local presence.

 

[Rallarsvingare]

I stopped in Wigan a couple of years ago whilst travelling to the Lake District. I thought whilst I'm there I'd go and have a look at the famous Snake Pit. It's quite hard to find, so I stopped to ask a couple of local council workers where it was and they had no clue what I was talking about, which surprised me, but I guess catch wrestling is still very much a niche sport. I thought it would have had much more of a local presence.

I remember in 2017 when I went over there for a training camp. It was me, James Thompson, the famous MMA-Fighter and occasionaly some other wrestlers joined in for the camp. James and Roy Wood picked me up at the airport.

Aspull were the gym is located is a really small town and the only hotel around was just outside right between Aspull and Bolton. The employees at the Hotel was 2 people, Roy and James dropped me off and had a conversation and Roy made sure everything was alright with the hotel and so on, then when they left the hotel employees had som funny questions. They said James looked scary and wondered if he was a UFC-fighter. I said not UFC but probably the most famous heavyweight fighter from the UK, legend in Japan and so on.

They had no idea who James was and wondered what he was doing there. Then I explained we were there to train catch wrestling and the old man who dropped us off was, Roy Wood the last old school coach from the infamous snake pit and so on. They were still completly clueless had no idea about catch wrestling, lancashire wrestling or the gym. They knew the gym had booked the hotel basement for a wrestling event but besides that knew nothing.

This was the last year before they launched big with the world championships. I dont really know if theyre more wellknown now since I live in Sweden and not the UK but considering how much they expanded I guess they should have a little more known reputation. The competions is not in small hotel basements anymore.