Can The Avengers take down Superman?

[revoltub]

The gods in the Marvel universe are basically just powerful superheroes and they can all be killed. The closest thing to an omnipotent god is The One Above All, who is rarely invoked because he is completely indifferent to our physical world.

The most powerful humanoid being in the Marvel universe however is Franklin Richards.

he could literally erase Thor's existence with the snap of a finger.

Wrong. Molecule Man is more powerful. As is Sentry Arguably as Sentry killed molecule man.

 

[Mike]

Post crisis superman had his power cut in half. And he also lost the "superpower for any situation" he had pre crisis.

Post crisis superman can be challenged physically by hulk, iron man hulk buster armour, and thor.

Pre crisis superman would dominate all of them. But post crisis superman had his abilities cut to the point where the avengers can beat him.

No, because he still is almost as fast as the speed of light post crisis. Post crisis supes is also stronger and more durable than anyone on the avengers. But again that would literally never come into play because not only are they too slow to hit him, they're too slow too even know what's happening. They'd see a red and blue blur and then a fine red mist of body parts.

 

[revoltub]

an "enhanced" human on superroids then. He still shouldn't be able to take punches that smash holes through concrete.

Well Batman also shouldn't be able to "time and evade" supermans heat vision.

Its all just fantasy nonsense. They make fun of it in avengers 2 when Hawkeye is talking to Scarlett witch and says "these are super aliens, im fighting them with a bow and arrow, this doesnt make sense" or something like that.

It is illogical to point out flaws in logic in a movie that is supposed to be illogical.

 

[salamander]

I'm going to explain this again because it's not sinking in with most of the people in this thread.

Superman is actually about as fast as flash/quicksilver. (on top of every other power) It's been noted, and referenced and he's used it. Writers just don't play it up during fights because if they did, it would be game over all the time which is boring. As such you only see supes use his speed during passive moments or fun moments...but hardly ever in combat.

I'm no marvel fan boy but I don't think they've ever compared the hulk to quicksilver as far as speed goes. So in a confrontation, if the writer/director is being true to superman's abilities, he would be moving so damn fast hulk would be standing still. Allowing supes to do whatever he would want with hulk before hulk could even blink. This wouldn't be a "supes needs to hang with hulks strength or stamina" deal...it's a "supes would have the hulk sent out into orbit hurtling towards a black hole before the hulk could get a blink off" kind of deal.

Now before you try and compare hulk to doomsday, understand that doomsday is also kryptonian and has inherited most of supes core abilities (except flight) so dooms day is really just as fast. And they reference his speed in the death of superman comics. But they never played it up. But that's how doomsday had the ability to hang and kill supes.

The hulk simply has no fucking chance here, nor do any of the avengers...IF the writers were actually honoring all of supes strengths. Which they don't...because the dude is stupidly powerful.

Supes takes out all the avengers before they could even move.

Good points.

Ok but what about the fact that Sentry is basically a blond haired version of superman, and is probably capable of moving at comparable (he can snatch bullets, fly to the sun and back in minutes) speeds?

The writers didn't factor those attributes for when the Sentry fought hulk during the world war hulk arc.

So either Hulk can get transcendentally angry enough to match superman's speed, or superman gets somehow gets nerfed for the sake of a story so the fight actually takes place.

If not, then Hulk and the Avengers die quickly and horribly.

Another thought concerning the Hulks power: Does he have an actual limit? At one point he was so pissed that he was begging Dr. Strange (?) to send him to Negative Zone before he broke the world

Also: I wonder if having two great minds like Tony Stark and Bruce Banner working together with prep time against superman would make a difference? With a collaboration of those two formidable minds (think maybe Reed Richards and possibly Doom, are the only ones smarter) using SHIELD/Stark- tech and resources in conjunction with a rune-enhanced Thor, with Captain America pulling some tactical heroics, and spiderman convincing hulk that superman rape-fucked hulks pet kittens to death, I'm still convinced the Avengers might win.

EDIT: And if they venue gets changed to a different colored sun, it's a whole new ball game. Stark and Banner would probably pick up on that eventually if they had the time.

 

[Tiny]

Why bother giving him those powers in the first place?

Ask dc.

 

[revoltub]

No, because he still is almost as fast as the speed of light post crisis. Post crisis supes is also stronger and more durable than anyone on the avengers. But again that would literally never come into play because not only are they too slow to hit him, they're too slow too even know what's happening. They'd see a red and blue blur and then a fine red mist of body parts.

There is 0 evidence that hes as strong as the hulk. Hulks power seemingly has no limit if he increases anger. Supermans power does have a limit.

The avenegers also have several reality warpers such as doctor strange and scarlett witch.

 

[Strychnine]

Yea, base Supes gets blown out but both SMP1M and CA-Superman curb stomp the Dr. Hell, maybe even Superboy Prime could take him.

Dr. Manhattan created DC's New 52 universe...

He created it. He murks anyone the universe he created with a thought.

 

[Mike]

Well Batman also shouldn't be able to "time and evade" supermans heat vision.

Its all just fantasy nonsense. They make fun of it in avengers 2 when Hawkeye is talking to Scarlett witch and says "these are super aliens, im fighting them with a bow and arrow, this doesnt make sense" or something like that.

It is illogical to point out flaws in logic in a movie that is supposed to be illogical.

And that logic is why a lot of people just can't do super hero battle debates. If you're not going to go with established feats and abilities and say lolz it's made up who cares, then why have the debate in the first place? Yes supes powers are silly. The idea that he wouldn't use them for.... some reason, while they murder him, that's even sillier logic imo.

 

[revoltub]

Good points.

Ok but what about the fact that Sentry is basically a blond haired version of superman, and is probably capable of moving at comparable (he can snatch bullets, fly to the sun and back in minutes) speeds?

The writers didn't factor those attributes for when the Sentry fought hulk during the world war hulk arc.

So either Hulk can get transcendentally angry enough to match superman's speed, or superman gets somehow gets nerfed for the sake of a story so the fight actually takes place.

If not, then Hulk and the Avengers die quickly and horribly.

Another thought concerning the Hulks power: Does he have an actual limit? At one point he was so pissed that he was begging Dr. Strange (?) to send him to Negative Zone before he broke the world

Also: I wonder if having two great minds like Tony Stark and Bruce Banner working together with prep time against superman would make a difference? With a collaboration of those two formidable minds (think maybe Reed Richards and possibly Doom, are the only ones smarter) using SHIELD/Stark- tech and resources in conjunction with a rune-enhanced Thor, with Captain America pulling some tactical heroics, and spiderman convincing hulk that superman rape-fucked hulks pet kittens to death, I'm still convinced the Avengers might win.

The sentry wasn't full power vs hulk. The sentry is also a reality warper and was able to kill molecule man.

Molecule man is so powerful he could destroy Galactus with a single thought. Sentry killed him.

Sentry DECIMATES superman.

 

[revoltub]

And that logic is why a lot of people just can't do super hero battle debates. If you're not going to go with established feats and abilities and say lolz it's made up who cares, then why have the debate in the first place? Yes supes powers are silly. The idea that he wouldn't use them for.... some reason, while they murder him, that's even sillier logic imo.

You have to establish what powers he isnt using first.

 

[Mike]

There is 0 evidence that hes as strong as the hulk. Hulks power seemingly has no limit if he increases anger. Supermans power does have a limit.

The avenegers also have several reality warpers such as doctor strange and scarlett witch.

None of them have the speed to react to him. Every avenger without super durability is instantly dead. Instantly, before they even know a fight is happening. Like being sniped from a field 5 miles away while you're sitting eating lunch.


The durable characters he casually beats to death while they cannot see or react to him whatsoever. He eventually gets bored with the Hulks toughness and throws him into the sun.

 

[CodeBreaker]

One example of how broken Superman is: super speed. Justice League showed Superman can move as fast as the Flash, which begs the question, why wasn't he using this power in any of the previous movies? Why didn't he easily save his father with this power? How are they going to show future villains having competitive fights with him if he has this ability? Logically no one should be able to touch him unless they also have super speed. It was a dumb power to give him and now it creates all kind of plot holes in the ongoing story.

Which is why DC sucks

 

[GOATER]

Goku/Vegeta will kill them all.


Dragon Ball Z Fight Speed is a billion times faster than Western comics fight speed.

 

[Tiny]

Good points.

Ok but what about the fact that Sentry is basically a blond haired version of superman, and is probably capable of moving at comparable (he can snatch bullets, fly to the sun and back in minutes) speeds?

The writers didn't factor those attributes for when the Sentry fought hulk during the world war hulk arc.

So either Hulk can get transcendentally angry enough to match superman's speed, or superman gets somehow gets nerfed for the sake of a story so the fight actually takes place.

If not, then Hulk and the Avengers die quickly and horribly.

Another thought concerning the Hulks power: Does he have an actual limit? At one point he was so pissed that he was begging Dr. Strange (?) to send him to Negative Zone before he broke the world

Also: I wonder if having two great minds like Tony Stark and Bruce Banner working together with prep time against superman would make a difference? With a collaboration of those two formidable minds (think maybe Reed Richards and possibly Doom, are the only ones smarter) using SHIELD/Stark- tech and resources in conjunction with a rune-enhanced Thor, with Captain America pulling some tactical heroics, and spiderman convincing hulk that superman rape-fucked hulks pet kittens to death, I'm still convinced the Avengers might win.

Supermans ridiculous super speed is never used in comics ir movies as anything but a novelty to save people reverse time or that funny moment with flash.

Bringing it up would mean a death sentence to the writers so they dont bring it up. Likely is the case for the sentry if he has that power as i dont know.

What i do know is that the comics have had fun with supes speed and have had him race flash where its been close but he usually loses. It was most recently referenced in supergirl and in the last justice league.

So far as i know marvel has smartly strayed away from givig powerful beings too many abilities so a powerful and string hulk has never been referenced as to having super speed.

Prep time isnt allowed here nor is going out to get special tools like kryptonite whatever. As you would need to do the same for supes. This is about base abilties vs base abilities.

As for hulk, comic book hulk seems to get more powerful with rage whoch is unlimited but again, i never read marvel growing up so i could be wrong.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

World Breaker Hulk would stomp him

 

[Mike]

You have to establish what powers he isnt using first.

That's the point. In a real fight he would use all his powers. He doesn't in the comics purely because he is too overpowered. He can already solo almost everyone just with haymakers. If they showed him using his speed no villain without speed powers would EVER be a challenge. Other fast characters like Flash and Quicksilver have the same issue, and usually lose fights by standing still and getting clocked by someone with normal speed.


DC has a lot of bad writing in their stories because in DC the heroes are stronger than the villains. This is even alluded to in crossovers like JLA vs Avengers "oh look on this world the villains are evenly matched with the heroes or even stronger. That must suck"

 

[revoltub]

None of them have the speed to react to him. Every avenger without super durability is instantly dead. Instantly, before they even know a fight is happening. Like being sniped from a field 5 miles away while you're sitting eating lunch.


The durable characters he casually beats to death while they cannot see or react to him whatsoever. He eventually gets bored with the Hulks toughness and throws him into the sun.

Instantly dead? Lol based on what? These are superheroes. You think Thor and hulk are going out by one hit?

The avengers face gods and opponents with all different powers and youre saying that super speed is their weakness?

Doc. Strange and Scarlett witch both have the magic to nullify superman speed.

And I don't agree that superman has the speed advantage over quicksilver that you say.

 

[revoltub]

That's the point. In a real fight he would use all his powers. He doesn't in the comics purely because he is too overpowered. He can already solo almost everyone just with haymakers. If they showed him using his speed no villain without speed powers would EVER be a challenge. Other fast characters like Flash and Quicksilver have the same issue, and usually lose fights by standing still and getting clocked by someone with normal speed.


DC has a lot of bad writing in their stories because in DC the heroes are stronger than the villains. This is even alluded to in crossovers like JLA vs Avengers "oh look on this world the villains are evenly matched with the heroes or even stronger. That must suck"

He was overpowered pre crisis.

Thats why they greatly depowered him afterward. So you cant give post crisis supes the same powers as pre crisis supes. That's why I made the distinction.

Doomsday never lays a hand on silver age superman.

 

[Mike]

Supermans ridiculous super speed is never used in comics ir movies as anything but a novelty to save people reverse time or that funny moment with flash.

Bringing it up would mean a death sentence to the writers so they dont bring it up. Likely is the case for the sentry if he has that power as i dont know.

What i do know is that the comics have had fun with supes speed and have had him race flash where its been close but he usually loses. It was most recently referenced in supergirl and in the last justice league.

So far as i know marvel has smartly strayed away from givig powerful beings too many abilities so a powerful and string hulk has never been referenced as to having super speed.

Prep time isnt allowed here nor is going out to get special tools like kryptonite whatever. As you would need to do the same for supes. This is about base abilties vs base abilities.

As for hulk, comic book hulk seems to get more powerful with rage whoch is unlimited but again, i never read marvel growing up so i could be wrong.

In fact when Marvel needed The Sentry to fight Hulk to a draw during WWH, they had them fight with haymakers and Sentries energy powers. But he didn't use his speed at all and stood in the pocket with the hulk. While he literally got his face turned into hamburger. Because otherwise Sentry would have beat his ass and that wasn't the ending they wanted.

 

[Mike]

Instantly dead? Lol based on what? These are superheroes. You think Thor and hulk are going out by one hit?

The avengers face gods and opponents with all different powers and youre saying that super speed is their weakness?

Doc. Strange and Scarlett witch both have the magic to nullify superman speed.

And I don't agree that superman has the speed advantage over quicksilver that you say.

Did you not read where I said every hero without super durability? So Strange, Wanda, even guys like Iron man, Cap, Spidey, all literally dead in one punch in a fraction of a fraction of a second. And you're showing again that you just don't know the powersets. Flash and quicksilver have fought before, and Flash beat his ass so bad he literally felt sorry for him, since the flash was SO much faster Pietro couldn't counter him or react at all. Most versions of Quicksilver run somewhere around the speed of sound.


The flash is MUCH FASTER than the speed of light, and can do things like throw super powered Infinite Mass punches, teleport, phase through solid objects, and many other stupid things I'm sure I'm forgetting. Flash, any flash, is many times faster than Quicksilver, any Quicksilver.