Can The Avengers take down Superman?

[revoltub]

superman isnt invulnerable strong like 20 years before. they nerfed him in a way to make him more interesting in his stoy lines. doomsday for example killed superman.

he-man beat superman in a dc crossover as well.

H...he man?

 

[Bumblebeef]

H...he man?

there is a crossover comic
dc universe vs masters of the universe

 

[Henry Swanson]

Bligatory:

ROTFLMAO!!! Is that thanos being arrested?

 

[minute bull]

ROTFLMAO!!! Is that thanos being arrested?

PUT HIM UNDER THE JAIL, JUDGE.

Cosigned,

Thanos' Momma​

 

[faustian]

Ok well without bending or ignoring powers and abilities to help placate a story and build drama...supes wins based on how his default powers stack up against the avengers default powers.

I've literally never read a DC comic, but what if the power you're attributing to Supes is just the power some random writer exaggerated and gave him in a random issue

You acknowledge that most writers don't give him the speed advantage you're talking about, so shouldn't we defer here to "most writers"

 

[TSO]

Bligatory:

Ha also lost to squirrel girl.

 

[minute bull]

I FUCKED HER. WHICH MEANS I FUCK HIM.

AND YOU.

 

[Tiny]

I've literally never read a DC comic, but what if the power you're attributing to Supes is just the power some random writer exaggerated and gave him in a random issue

You acknowledge that most writers don't give him the speed advantage you're talking about, so shouldn't we defer here to "most writers"

It's been referenced more than once but only in passive situations for obvious story telling reasons (you can't have a compelling story if Supes can literally travel as fast as flash while having super strength, heat vision, cold breath...I mean really he could deal with any situation instantly)

In the justice league movie.



Supergirl vs Flah (supergirl being a near mirror to Superman of course)



In Smallville...



In the cartoons



In the comics...mostly flash wins, some were draws Supes wins 1.



I'd say flash SHOULD be faster but the point is that supes is fast enough to cause his enemies to literally freeze in time. I refer you to a more detailed scenerio as to what happens when a super fast hero goes sonic when around non super fast heros...

Super man IS this fast. And this is what kind of freedom he would have vs the Avengers because non of them have any baseline abilities to deal with this.



But again. The comics never acknowledge this during fights or serious scenarios because it pretty much ends all drama.

So let's take this panel for instance;

It's crap. As if you remember how fast the bullets were moving in that quick silver clip, Supes would have long since caught up to the nuke before billy could whisper "shazam" let alone have the travel time for the lightening bolt to travel down and transform billy. But you know...drama and story demands you don't really acknowledge his speed in these kinds of moments because then you have no story.

And this is partly what makes dc heros bad. You reference how fast super man is but you can't keep continuity with that speed because it kills your story.

Like look at the movies. In the 80's you have a superman that can travel so fast he can turn back time;

But then in the same films he struggles to catch a rocket...



In the new movies you have Superman able to move so fast that everyone appears to be frozen in time in the clip I just showed you...but then he struggles in a fight with Batman? Really?

Continuity...can't have that with superman. So ignoring writers needing to nerf superman during various moments to try and tell a compelling story...all things being equal supes mops the floor with the avengers as NONE of them are this fast.

 

[Deleted member 460645]

Thor or Hulk could fight him one on one, so the two together plus Iron Man and Cap should make it easy. Batman would wreck all of them, though.

Superman gets stronger the closer he is to the sun. He could literally power choke/fly every character without kryptonite into the sun with ease.

 

[Bumblebeef]

ROTFLMAO!!! Is that thanos being arrested?

early marvel days ^^

 

[Bob Gray]

It's highly, highly ridiculous. If you don't know enough about the power levels of the characters to know what they can and can't reasonably do, how can we have a real conversation? The symbiote in the 80's in no way enhanced him to anything near cosmic levels. At all. In any appearance. EVER. Firelord is many power tiers above him. Firelord can stand toe to toe and take shots from Thor, who is AT LEAST 10x stronger than ANY version of spider-man. So NO, that DOES NOT make any sense. I dunno man believe whatever you want but your points throughout this thread are mostly nonsense. I at least backed my opinions with scans of actual fights with the characters.

You've basically just said over and over again "these are fantasy characters, so logic and consistency doesn't matter" Ok well good luck reconciling about half a century of contradictory feats with that (complete and total lack) of logic.

I thought you understood what I was saying, but I guess not. My point was that consistency was essential, not that it didnt matter. And that logic was created by the rules they established, not that it didnt matter. Youre literally putting quotations marks around words Ive never said that promote an opinion I never held.

I dunno. Its like you dont know what Im saying at all and think Im saying you can just make up whatever you want.

Again, I was referring to GALACTUS, not firelord. My point wasnt that it was acceptable, but that it was not the same thing. Again, I dont know what youre reading, but it sure as hell isnt what Im typing.

Christ, youre not the only one that posted scans. But you just decided that the scans other people post dont matter. But your scans of non-canonical mash ups voted by fans is somehow proof of something.

 

[Mike]

I thought you understood what I was saying, but I guess not. My point was that consistency was essential, not that it didnt matter. And that logic was created by the rules they established, not that it didnt matter.

I dunno. Its like you dont know what Im saying at all and think Im saying you can just make up whatever you want.

Again, I was referring to GALACTUS, not firelord. My point wasnt that it was acceptable, but that it was not the same thing. Again, I dont know what youre reading, but it sure as hell isnt what Im typing.

Christ, youre not the only one that posted scans. But you just decided that the scans other people post dont matter. But your scans of non-canonical mash ups voted by fans is somehow proof of something.

Yeah guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I also feel like you haven't listened or haven't understood a single thing I've said. Don't get your pov even a little and it seems silly and illogical to me. Maybe We're too stubborn on this subject and are talking past each other.


Don't know what else I can say at this point.

 

[Bob Gray]

Yeah guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I also feel like you haven't listened or haven't understood a single thing I've said. Don't get your pov even a little and it seems silly and illogical to me. Maybe We're too stubborn on this subject and are talking past each other.


Don't know what else I can say at this point.

Ive understood everything perfectly.

Your point is that certain things are so ridiculous, they shouldbe discounted to avoid inconsistencies and lapses in logic.

My point is all of it is ridiculous, and Im more selective on what is discounted since at the end of the day the stories establish the rules and some inconsistencies and lapses are unavoidable.

Fundamentally, thats our disagreement.

Theres no objective train of logic on either of our ends. Its mostly subjective interpretations of wholly impossible circumstances.

 

[Halge]

What the hell is happening in this thread, that has kept it going for 400 posts?

 

[Hidden_Hand]

What the hell is happening in this thread, that has kept it going for 400 posts?

Basically the guys that know comics are trying to explain to the MCU newbies that their precious Avengers can't handle Superman but the pill is proving to be quite hard to swallow.

I had guys try argue with me that Goku could fucking beat reality warpers like Franklin Richards in another thread, it gets tiresome especially when you have been reading this stuff for 15 years.

 

[Tiny]

Basically the guys that know comics are trying to explain to the MCU newbies that their precious Avengers can't handle Superman but the pill is proving to be quite hard to swallow.

I had guys try argue with me that Goku could fucking beat reality warpers like Franklin Richards in another thread, it gets tiresome especially when you have been reading this stuff for 15 years.

The irony here is that it's absolutely due to the limited power sets and their drawbacks that help make marvel characters tell a more compelling story.


It's really a GOOD thing. And absolutely highlights part of the issues with characters like Superman.

On a much smaller scale, I prefer Starks Mark 2 suite with limitations and a rule set versus his new Nano suite in the last movie where he could have the suite be anything he wanted it to be at any moment.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

The irony here is that it's absolutely due to the limited power sets and their drawbacks that help make marvel characters tell a more compelling story.


It's really a GOOD thing. And absolutely highlights part of the issues with characters like Superman.

On a much smaller scale, I prefer Starks Mark 2 suite with limitations and a rule set versus his new Nano suite in the last movie where he could have the suite be anything he wanted it to be at any moment.

You have actually brought up a good point, one that I have thought about for a long time.

If we look at all the comic based movies, what are the best reviewed, highest profit and most highly regarded ones ever?

Batman trilogy (BB, TDK and TDKR)
Ironman
Logan
Captain America (Winter Soldier and Civil War)
Black Panther

Except for a few what do they all have in common? No one has extreme power, there is no gods, or flying or laser beams, it's nitty gritty and relatable to the real world and people.

Now what are the ones that are hated and bombed the most?

Man of Steel
Batman vs. Superman
Justice League
Thor 1 & 2
Hulk
Various X-Men
X-Men Apocalypse

Now what do they all have in common? Extreme, over the top, un-relatable, comic books super powers.

It's a clear trend here for what people want and where the money is.

On a sidenote I loved the DC films and love seeing characters like Superman and Doomsday but it's the power of the many that outweigh the power of the few.

 

[liljoe]

Basically the guys that know comics are trying to explain to the MCU newbies that their precious Avengers can't handle Superman but the pill is proving to be quite hard to swallow.

I had guys try argue with me that Goku could fucking beat reality warpers like Franklin Richards in another thread, it gets tiresome especially when you have been reading this stuff for 15 years.

-Doctor Strange. Way too many skills and spells he can utilize.

How can Superman hurt him if he can't even touch him?

Superman is awesome but has a very basic, primitive skill set.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

-Doctor Strange. Way too many skills and spells he can utilize.

How can Superman hurt him if he can't even touch him?

Superman is awesome but has a very basic, primitive skill set.

Strange with the time stone can beat Superman, i've said that.

Without it he ain't doing nothing, he won't even see Superman coming, he would be hurled into space and never come back if he irritated the Man of Steel.

 

[liljoe]

Strange with the time stone can beat Superman, i've said that.

Without it he ain't doing nothing, he won't even see Superman coming, he would be hurled into space and never come back if he irritated the Man of Steel.

How would Sup find him if he is in a different plane or cloaking himself?

There are a lot of ways he can evade him. He's not going to just stand in front of him waiting to get pummeled.