Can The Avengers take down Superman?

[TSO]

If there's no kyrptonite, then no. There's not a single superhero that would survive this, period; Besides other kryptonians who enter our atmosphere, of course.

That isn't even going.to put a scratch on Thor, Iron Man, or Hulk.

 

[Tiny]

Its one of my all time favorite stories.
Superman is rushing to stop the shenanigans that is going to get some, and possibly all, of the heroes/ villains killed by the World Governments.
Shazam stops Superman from doing that and its back and forth before Billy brings the thunder (well, lightening). Supes is getting fucked up.
Sure's he's trying to reason w/ Billy, but that is because he knows him and also knows that they could go on fighting forever.

Then at the end, Billy turns back into Marvel and outraces him (after giving up a significant head start) to the nuke. At that point you're not sure if he's going to keep fighting Superman or not.

Are you refering to kingdom come?

If so the writers dont use supes super speed. If they did he would have gotten to both nukes instantly

 

[Tiny]

Honestly, I dont much care what the "rules" other forums have are. If you really want to distill it down, every single one of these conversations is stupid as fuck and makes zero sense.

As is the "rules" set by the universe these characters inhabit are laid out, no matter how stupid they are. Because at their core, all of these characteristics are stupid. But you don't get to pick a power and decide it's "obvious" how this power beats everything in comics, despite the fact that said power has been nullified time and time again.

Theres always a limit to how far you can stretch something. Spider-Man is never going to beat Galactus, Punisher is never going to beat Silver Surfer. There are power levels and it can be obvious which ones are fundamentally unable to compete. But Superman vs other heavy hitters is not one of them. Much less by invoking a power he's virtually never used except mostly in humorous situations and is an ability thats never been the fundamental fight changer against the most powerful heroes and villains.

Once you start arguing that "In real life such and such would happen", youve missed the point of these discussions.

Again. Nothing in the avwngers based arsenal can negate supes super speed.

Writers typically dont use super speed because it kills the story so no... it hasnt been negated time and time agian.

Its just not used or mentioned during fights because its an i win ability.

 

[I Am Legion]

He rips off the heads of all but Thor and The Hulk in a few seconds. He could grab the Hulk and leave him on the moon in seconds. The Thor fight would be more interesting, as he is a God. But if you just take a look at the base powers, Superman should have the advantage by having more weapons.

 

[Tiny]

He rips off the heads of all but Thor and The Hulk in a few seconds. He could grab the Hulk and leave him on the moon in seconds. The Thor fight would be more interesting, as he is a God. But if you just take a look at the base powers, Superman should have the advantage by having more weapons.

Since none of them have auper speed they would all be left in whatever state superman wanted to leave them in.

Its a dumb fight

 

[Bob Gray]

Again. Nothing in the avwngers based arsenal can negate supes super speed.

Writers typically dont use super speed because it kills the story so no... it hasnt been negated time and time agian.

Its just not used or mentioned during fights because its an i win ability.

The speed of arguably the fastest superhero was negated by a sword.

Yes it has.

 

[Bob Gray]

Without any rules or context then any convo like this is entirely meaningless. I've been reading comics for three decades, and from one issue to the next completely stupid and contradictory things will happen in the service of the story. Like Lobo beating the shit out of Superman in one comic and punching him into orbit, then getting beat up in h2h by freaking batman the next issue. Yeah, no. He wouldn't even feel the punches of a "normal" human.


Or Thor fighting Galactus to a draw. Yeah, again no. With a wave of his hand Galactus can wipe out entire sections of galaxies. Superman has been KTFO by an exploding gas station. He's also been relatively unscathed after being on a planet while it exploded, and survived nuclear explosions. If you don't clarify which version of a character is being used and what feats are acceptable, anyone can win or lose to anyone for any asinine reason.


At that point, why even have the conversation? It's silly and illogical imo to say that just because we're discussing a fantasy setting we are not allowed to use logic or critical thinking in any way. Because it's just comics. Yeah that pov is just stupid. As I said this ultra nerdy shit is discussed all over the internet between comics, manga,movies, etc. And every single forum where it is discussed has ground rules, or it's just utter nonsense.


If you go look into any game, pen and paper to digital to board, nobody says "hurr durr this stuff isn't even real bro let's do whatever and have no frame of logic or reason" Because again, that's stupid. Really, really stupid.

Lots of people have been reading comics for decades.

Even considering these things is throwing out frames of logic and reason. Even more so is considering superpowers without also taking into account the things that have negated them. Where do you draw the line? Do you just sy "Why would a piece of his home planet harm him. Kryptonite is dumb."?

To be fair, Rune King Thor is a much different hero than Thor. He essentially has the power of a celestial being.

I understand the notion of taking one "type" of the hero. However, the super speed has never really been part or Supermans arsenal like it has The Flash. It's generally used for humor like the already mentioned panel of Superman and Flash "racing". So under the logic of using the established character we'd use the skills they actually use in fights. Not the skills theyve shown mostly out of combat.

 

[Tiny]

The speed of arguably the fastest superhero was negated by a sword.

Yes it has.

Ok. Ignoring that the writers had flash just stand in front of the dude wielding the sword because story telling reasons...do any of the avengers own this magic sword?

Is this magic sword a part of their base arsenal?

I will state again. Flash but more importantly supermans super speed that essentially freezes time for everyone but themselves is never written accuratly or true to its ability because if they did, there would be no story. So they subvert this ability by either not using it entirely or using aome clunky device specific to that story to negate it.

The story you referenced for example, i havnt read it but those who have confirmed that for story telling reasons, flash just “stood” there in the pocket of the dude wielding the sword.

Because story telling reasons.

Because if they didnt have flash make a stupid choice by not using his super speed, there is no drama...no story.

So back to the avengers and their powers, not have anything designed to counter super speed. So to make the fight between they and supes remotely interesting, you would need to invent a new power or weapon to negate the speed or simply have superman not use it for whatever reason.

But once you succumb to doing that, you inadvertingly admit that superman owns them otherwise.

Supes wins this.

Easily.

 

[Bob Gray]

Ok. Ignoring that the writers had flash just stand in front of the dude wielding the sword because story telling reasons...do any of the avengers own this magic sword?

Is this magic sword a part of their base arsenal?

I will state again. Flash but more importantly supermans super speed that essentially freezes time for everyone but themselves is never written accuratly or true to its ability because if they did, there would be no story. So they subvert this ability by either not using it entirely or using aome clunky device specific to that story to negate it.

The story you referenced for example, i havnt read it but those who have confirmed that for story telling reasons, flash just “stood” there in the pocket of the dude wielding the sword.

Because story telling reasons.

Because if they didnt have flash make a stupid choice by not using his super speed, there is no drama...no story.

So back to the avengers and their powers, not have anything designed to counter super speed. So to make the fight between they and supes remotely interesting, you would need to invent a new power or weapon to negate the speed or simply have superman not use it for whatever reason.

But once you succumb to doing that, you inadvertingly admit that superman owns them otherwise.

Supes wins this.

Easily.

Its not a magic sword. Its a sword.


Story telling reasons is the entire way any of these powers exist in the first place. And the reason why most of these heroes and villains ever lose.

These stories are not logical or consistent because they dont take place in any sort of reality. They take place in a universe where someone can move at the speed of light without destroying their body. They also take place in a universe where such things can be beaten by conventional means. You cant accept one half of the story and ignore the other half.

 

[VitorReem]

Lol easily

 

[Tiny]

Its not a magic sword. Its a sword.


Story telling reasons is the entire way any of these powers exist in the first place. And the reason why most of these heroes and villains ever lose.

These stories are not logical or consistent because they dont take place in any sort of reality. They take place in a universe where someone can move at the speed of light without destroying their body. They also take place in a universe where such things can be beaten by conventional means. You cant accept one half of the story and ignore the other half.

Ok well without bending or ignoring powers and abilities to help placate a story and build drama...supes wins based on how his default powers stack up against the avengers default powers.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

How has Superman not accidentally killed anyone from punching? I mean, he has to seriously pull his punches to not make someone like Batmans head explode. Also, CAN the Avengers take down Superman. Yes, weirder things have happened. WOULD they take him down though? Odds would be in Supermans favor, but the Avengers could possibly pull it off with the right gameplan (I mean, Cannonfreakingball beat Gladiator somehow). Also, Squirrel Girls mirks Superman no problem.

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Molecule man can do that too.

Particle Man >>> Molecule Man

 

[Plutoburn]

The character should be concrete, and the best ones is the latest iteration from their respective movie universe, because way too many comic book versions and power levels are all over the place.

The Superman at the power level of the Justice League movie and The Avengers at the power level of Infinity War (IM with nanotech, Stormbreaker Thor, Ronin Captain with Dual Shield, Hulk that may or may not come out)

But since you are adding the caveat that Superman is bloodthirsty, then to be fair to the avengers, then Hulk will remain Hulk for the duration of the fight.


If they fight with zero prep, then Superman wins. If they fight with prep time, with teamwork, Avengers can win.

 

[Strychnine]

Cant stab superman. And hes not an avenger.

I was just making a point that Deathstroke stabbed the Flash.

That's it.

 

[Corona]

Supercan will bore them to death.

 

[Bob Gray]

Ok well without bending or ignoring powers and abilities to help placate a story and build drama...supes wins based on how his default powers stack up against the avengers default powers.

You mean if the story was told in a way no comic story has been told ever? Maybe.

 

[Bob Gray]

The character should be concrete, and the best ones is the latest iteration from their respective movie universe, because way too many comic book versions and power levels are all over the place.

The Superman at the power level of the Justice League movie and The Avengers at the power level of Infinity War (IM with nanotech, Stormbreaker Thor, Ronin Captain with Dual Shield, Hulk that may or may not come out)

But since you are adding the caveat that Superman is bloodthirsty, then to be fair to the avengers, then Hulk will remain Hulk for the duration of the fight.


If they fight with zero prep, then Superman wins. If they fight with prep time, with teamwork, Avengers can win.

Best version of all the characters? Rune King Thor demolishes Superman with ease. No other Avenger needed.

 

[Twerknasty]

Supes wins early. Every time

 

[Strychnine]

Still Supes is holding back because he didn't want to hurt Billy. That's why he outsmarted him. He literally just tanked and no sold all of Billy's offense because he waned to save him. At that point he had Billy completely helpless. If he'd wanted to kill him he would have. At the end with the nuke it clearly shows supes was going to reach it first and billy grabbed him and threw him aside. Billy also, like most dc bricks, has super speed for some stupid reason.


You've read comics forever. I know you know DC writers nerf the hell out of the characters in fights, because they're way too strong. Look at that scan @Strychnine posted with flash and tell me that isn't just stupid writing.

Well, Deathstroke IS a master strategist.