Can The Avengers take down Superman?

[Tiny]

You mean if the story was told in a way no story has been told ever? Maybe.

We are not creating a story here with drama and adventure. We are asking which is more powerful based off of baseline abilities.

Supes wins with super speed which nobody on the avengers can deal with. There is no counter.

Now if you want to tell a story and have drama then yes as a writer i would avoid even mentioning supes speed and i would have supes stand in the pocket and trade blows with thor and hulk lol.

But then now we are bending powers and logic to the will of any specific writer. As such my story has superman winning.

Lol

But again. Without attempting to tell a story just basing the outcome off of who has the strongest powers, supes wins again.

 

[revoltub]

Superman has been defeated several times.

Dc has weaker villains than Marvel. Yet superman still needs justice league to help him.

 

[revoltub]

We are not creating a story here with drama and adventure. We are asking which is more powerful based off of baseline abilities.

Supes wins with super speed which nobody on the avengers can deal with. There is no counter.

Now if you want to tell a story and have drama then yes as a writer i would avoid even mentioning supes speed and i would have supes stand in the pocket and trade blows with thor and hulk lol.

But then now we are bending powers and logic to the will of any specific writer. As such my story has superman winning.

Lol

But again. Without attempting to tell a story just basing the outcome off of who has the strongest powers, supes wins again.

Once again you say there is no counter for speed but it has been countered several times. Most notably when the flash was defeated by rahs using batmans blueprint.

 

[Fatt Hughes]

That isn't even going.to put a scratch on Thor, Iron Man, or Hulk.

Thor and Hulk, you're correct. Iron Man? Supes would rip that alkie out of his suit and it would be over. Cap and Bucky were able to go mano y mano with Iron Man, with Soilder ripping the reactor out of Iron Man in Civil War.

 

[Tiny]

Once again you say there is no counter for speed but it has been countered several times. Most notably when the flash was defeated by rahs using batmans blueprint.

And while ive never read that story apparently for whatever writers reason, flash wasnt using his speed at the time.

So really, its not that the sword countered it, its the writers mistreating flashes ability.

 

[Bob Gray]

We are not creating a story here with drama and adventure. We are asking which is more powerful based off of baseline abilities.

Supes wins with super speed which nobody on the avengers can deal with. There is no counter.

Now if you want to tell a story and have drama then yes as a writer i would avoid even mentioning supes speed and i would have supes stand in the pocket and trade blows with thor and hulk lol.

But then now we are bending powers and logic to the will of any specific writer. As such my story has superman winning.

Lol

But again. Without attempting to tell a story just basing the outcome off of who has the strongest powers, supes wins again.

And while ive never read that story apparently for whatever writers reason, flash wasnt using his speed at the time.

So really, its not that the sword countered it, its the writers mistreating flashes ability.

Jesus Christ. Youre making up all these interpretations. The question is CAN the Avengers beat Superman, which means "is it possible". Since none of them are real, we can only take into account what has happened in the stories and make an interpretation based on the possibilities they've created.

The answer in unequivocally yes.

Now, if you want to take Tinys interpretation, where you subjectively accept and ignore whatever you want on a whim and ignore the people creating the stories, then no. They cant. I guess?

 

[revoltub]

And while ive never read that story apparently for whatever writers reason, flash wasnt using his speed at the time.

So really, its not that the sword countered it, its the writers mistreating flashes ability.

He was using his speed at the time. Batman built a machine to predict the flashes movement and he used a slick substance to make him slip and crash.

 

[Tiny]

He was using his speed at the time. Batman built a machine to predict the flashes movement and he used a slick substance to make him slip and crash.

Ok. So then batman with prep time built a device specific in dealing with the flashs speed.

This is fine but its outside of batmans core abilities.

The avengers in comparisson would have to borrow outside of their core abilities to deal with supermans speed.

So while superman comes to the table with no prep time and only hos core abilities, the avengers are allowed prep time and to borrow outside of their core abilities?

 

[Tiny]

Jesus Christ. Youre making up all these interpretations. The question is CAN the Avengers beat Superman, which means "is it possible". Since none of them are real, we can only take into account what has happened in the stories and make an interpretation based on the possibilities they've created.

The answer in unequivocally yes.

Now, if you want to take Tinys interpretation, where you subjectively accept and ignore whatever you want on a whim and ignore the people creating the stories, then no. They cant. I guess?

Im explaining to you that its very very rare that writers acknowledge supes speed because its an i win button.

That bit from kingdom come for example... with shazam and the 2 nukes? Supes if true to his speed ability would have been able to get to both before they could even make it 20 feet up after launch.

But like every other writer they want drama so they ignore supes speed.

Even though weve seen supes display this speed in comical moments or to save people its convienently ignored in most story telling because again, its an i win button.

Now as a writer i could easily say that the avengers beat down superman because supes decided to not use super speed or block any attack because i wrote him to be an idiot because i want drama...but then thats on the writer.

Based on abilities the avengers have no shot here. They would all be stuck frozen from supes perspective because none can move as fast as he can and nOne have a core ability that can stop superman from using his super speed.

You are saying there is a counter to super speed because bad writing said so. Sure! If i decided as a writer that supes would just run into thors hammer at super speed...ya i guess thats a counter? Lol

 

[KnightTemplar]

Superman has been defeated several times.

Dc has weaker villains than Marvel. Yet superman still needs justice league to help him.

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity. The Writers will have the Hero do something very stupid, just so the Big Bad has a chance to land a few decent shots. Or place limitations on the Hero's powers, so the fight with a Villain with vastly inferior abilities isn't over by page 2 of the comic.

With Superman, it's his inflexible moral code and keeping a very tight reign on his God-like Superpowers. This is how Batman, "defeats" Superman so many times. Something that Batman himself acknowledges.

I know that Clark could squash me like a bug if he really wanted to. But I also know he won't. Because deep down, Clark is a good man. And deep down...I'm not.

 

[Bob Gray]

Im explaining to you that its very very rare that writers acknowledge supes speed because its an i win button.

That bit from kingdom come for example... with shazam and the 2 nukes? Supes if true to his speed ability would have been able to get to both before they could even make it 20 feet up after launch.

But like every other writer they want drama so they ignore supes speed.

Even though weve seen supes display this speed in comical moments or to save people its convienently ignored in most story telling because again, its an i win button.

Now as a writer i could easily say that the avengers beat down superman because supes decided to not use super speed or block any attack because i wrote him to be an idiot because i want drama...but then thats on the writer.

Based on abilities the avengers have no shot here. They would all be stuck frozen from supes perspective because none can move as fast as he can and nOne have a core ability that can stop superman from using his super speed.

You are saying there is a counter to super speed because bad writing said so. Sure! If i decided as a writer that supes would just run into thors hammer at super speed...ya i guess thats a counter? Lol

Yeah, you keep repeating the same thing, but youre still not understanding what Im saying.

For all intents and purposes, youre argument is tht this power of super speed is an I win button, not because of anything to do with the characters, stories and abilities, but because in real life this is what would happen.

The problem is, that applies to almost any superpower. It is literally impossible for anything in the universe with the physical dimensions of supermans face to withstand a single strike of super powered Thor Hammer. Nevertheless, we accept that Supermans face can withstand the blow with little more than a bruise not because of anything to do with reality, but simply because hes "Tough Enough".

The same also applies to super speed, because someone just has "That Anderson Silva Precision" and can counter light speed travel with a melee weapon.

Likewise, we do the same thing in almost any superhero battle. None of the things that happen are even remotely possible. Every single power of every hero is either countered, negated or ignored.

Look, by the logic youre using, The Flash beats Superman. Because hes faster. Not just a little faster, literally so fast that superman wouldnt see him. Therefore, Superman Vs The Flash would result in a victory for The Flash.....if we're using your logic.

 

[revoltub]

Ok. So then batman with prep time built a device specific in dealing with the flashs speed.

This is fine but its outside of batmans core abilities.

The avengers in comparisson would have to borrow outside of their core abilities to deal with supermans speed.

So while superman comes to the table with no prep time and only hos core abilities, the avengers are allowed prep time and to borrow outside of their core abilities?

What are they borrowing outside of their core abilities?

 

[blaseblah]

When one guy can move 20-28 mph tops, and the other guy can move in excess of 168,000 miles per second... The second guy will never ever under any circumstances lose to the first guy in a fight. Ever. For any reason. Just no.


It may be dumb that he's that fast, but the Flash has been that speed for many decades now.

In a random one-off confrontation, yeah, but with planning that ability could be dealt with. The onus is on the writer to tell a story that makes sense.

 

[Mike]

Well, Deathstroke IS a master strategist.

Lol Oh I love Deathstroke, one of my favorite villains. It's still so silly seeing what is basically EVIL Captain America taking down demigods.

 

[Mike]

The speed of arguably the fastest superhero was negated by a sword.

Yes it has.

And that example was illogical and silly. The Flash has superhuman reflexes. If he couldn't react as fast as he can run he'd splatter himself trying to use his powers. It's lazy, bad, nonsensical writing. That CAN happen even in fantasy settings. You CAN have an existing logical framework within a fantasy setting, where the rules are consistent within that universe.

 

[Mike]

In a random one-off confrontation, yeah, but with planning that ability could be dealt with. The onus is on the writer to tell a story that makes sense.

No. There is no way to prepare for someone that moves 186,000 miles per second. PER. SECOND. Unless that person is dumber than forrest gump. People are just blatantly ignoring Flashes speed because it's not realistic. Well it's a fantasy world filled with fantastic powers, and in this fantasy world Flash can move FASTER than 186,000 MPS. PER. SECOND.


Just no.

 

[scorpipede]

Since none of them have auper speed they would all be left in whatever state superman wanted to leave them in.

Its a dumb fight

Superman is vulnerable to magic, Dr Strange makes him prepare a sandwich for each Avenger. Toasted if they prefer.

 

[scorpipede]

The Avengers consist of:
Captain America
Iron Man
Thor
Hulk

Can they beat a bloodlusted Superman?

Oh this group. Then Thor uses his hammer which is magical and makes Superman his bitch.

 

[Mike]

Lots of people have been reading comics for decades.

Even considering these things is throwing out frames of logic and reason. Even more so is considering superpowers without also taking into account the things that have negated them. Where do you draw the line? Do you just sy "Why would a piece of his home planet harm him. Kryptonite is dumb."?

To be fair, Rune King Thor is a much different hero than Thor. He essentially has the power of a celestial being.

I understand the notion of taking one "type" of the hero. However, the super speed has never really been part or Supermans arsenal like it has The Flash. It's generally used for humor like the already mentioned panel of Superman and Flash "racing". So under the logic of using the established character we'd use the skills they actually use in fights. Not the skills theyve shown mostly out of combat.

As a geek this logic is annoying because it's false and illogical. You can apply a logical framework to anything you want to. D&D whether in P&P, miniatures, or video game form has a slew of fantastical powers and abilities that are handled in a rigid, logical, straightforward fashion. Even though the setting is "ridiculous" Warhammer does this as well.


Like I said these conversations go on all over the internet, and People DO set up logical rules based on consistency over time. If you don't, there's no constructive way to ever discuss anything. Yes, DC characters have silly powers. But they DO have those powers. It doesn't make any sense to say someone has the power of a god, but that's illogical so they just wouldn't use it. In THIS world, having such powers is NOT illogical.

 

[Mike]

Superman is vulnerable to magic, Dr Strange makes him prepare a sandwich for each Avenger. Toasted if they prefer.

Before Strange is even aware he's there, Supes has ripped his head off and thrown it into space. He's many thousands of times faster than any Avenger ever.