Can The Avengers take down Superman?

[Mike]

You mean if the story was told in a way no comic story has been told ever? Maybe.

Writers have to ignore powers to focus on the story they want to tell. Especially in DC, as every hero is so powerful that few villains could realistically challenge them. When debating a fantasy fight amongst ourselves, what logical reasoning do WE have to have some people fight to their fullest while some forget half of their power set, or just stand still to eat haymakers? I'm seriously asking this, and nobody will give a logical answer. Because as I said these fantasy matchups are discussed all over the internet. Even if you think that's silly.


There is a reason that there isn't a single site where it's discussed in a vacuum without any logic, like you guys are doing here. We don't have to deal with writing a story around superman and say, well screw it let's only use his strength and durability 99% of the time so he doesn't crush everyone. The Flash moves many, many thousands of times faster than anyone else with perfect reflexes. How does he lose? Let's have him run into a brick wall even though that makes no sense. These things are necessary to tell any story where DC heroes are vulnerable, as they created them with practically godlike power sets.

 

[scorpipede]

Before Strange is even aware he's there, Supes has ripped his head off and thrown it into space. He's many thousands of times faster than any Avenger ever.

Strange is aware of everything at all times. He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're fapping.

 

[Mike]

Ok well without bending or ignoring powers and abilities to help placate a story and build drama...supes wins based on how his default powers stack up against the avengers default powers.

This is really hard for a lot of people to grasp and I'm not sure why.

 

[Mike]

Strange is aware of everything at all times. He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're fapping.

Like Santa mixed with a dominatrix

 

[scorpipede]

Like Santa mixed with a dominatrix

Sexy time indeed!

 

[TSO]

Thor and Hulk, you're correct. Iron Man? Supes would rip that alkie out of his suit and it would be over. Cap and Bucky were able to go mano y mano with Iron Man, with Soilder ripping the reactor out of Iron Man in Civil War.

I was saying that slam wouldn't scratch him. Iron man would have to be in his Thor-buster armor to have a chance against him.

 

[Mike]

Lots of people have been reading comics for decades.

Even considering these things is throwing out frames of logic and reason. Even more so is considering superpowers without also taking into account the things that have negated them. Where do you draw the line? Do you just sy "Why would a piece of his home planet harm him. Kryptonite is dumb."?

To be fair, Rune King Thor is a much different hero than Thor. He essentially has the power of a celestial being.

I understand the notion of taking one "type" of the hero. However, the super speed has never really been part or Supermans arsenal like it has The Flash. It's generally used for humor like the already mentioned panel of Superman and Flash "racing". So under the logic of using the established character we'd use the skills they actually use in fights. Not the skills theyve shown mostly out of combat.

Yeah but again that just is not true. Superman has had the super speed since the golden age, and he uses it all the time. He's traveled from earth to other planets in mere moments. He's speed blitzed guys with his level of durability, like Mongol, the Cyborg Superman, Darkseid, etc. He's evacuated people from emergency situations instantaneously. He literally uses his super speed all the time. But when he's up against someone with no counter for his speed, they just ignore it. It's the same way guys like Spider-Man, Quicksilver, Flash, are faster than most of their villains. So when they need them to lose they run circles around their opponent beating their ass, then just randomly stand there and eat full force haymakers when it's time to lose. Again, in service to the story they want to tell. Because otherwise there's no realistic way for the bad guy to win.

 

[Plutoburn]

Best version of all the characters? Rune King Thor demolishes Superman with ease. No other Avenger needed.

See? If you get into comic book bs, I then can raise you Superman Prime and it's just an endless tunnel of iterations and interpretations.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kal-El_(DC_One_Million)

 

[blaseblah]

No. There is no way to prepare for someone that moves 186,000 miles per second. PER. SECOND. Unless that person is dumber than forrest gump. People are just blatantly ignoring Flashes speed because it's not realistic. Well it's a fantasy world filled with fantastic powers, and in this fantasy world Flash can move FASTER than 186,000 MPS. PER. SECOND.


Just no.

What a silly thing to say, of course there's a way. The simplest would be to kill him while he sleeps. How about making him run headfirst into a wall?

 

[Mike]

I was saying that slam wouldn't scratch him. Iron man would have to be in his Thor-buster armor to have a chance against him.

Yeah Thor has casually peeled his regular off of him like it was tinfoil, while warning Tony he can do that whenever he wants, and not to piss him off again.

 

[Bob Gray]

As a geek this logic is annoying because it's false and illogical. You can apply a logical framework to anything you want to. D&D whether in P&P, miniatures, or video game form has a slew of fantastical powers and abilities that are handled in a rigid, logical, straightforward fashion. Even though the setting is "ridiculous" Warhammer does this as well.


Like I said these conversations go on all over the internet, and People DO set up logical rules based on consistency over time. If you don't, there's no constructive way to ever discuss anything. Yes, DC characters have silly powers. But they DO have those powers. It doesn't make any sense to say someone has the power of a god, but that's illogical so they just wouldn't use it. In THIS world, having such powers is NOT illogical.

There is a logical framework. You're the one ignoring it. Subjectively deciding which completely impossible circumstance is acceptable is hardly a logical framework for anything.

Lots of conversations go on all over the internet. Even in this thread there's a dozen different interpretations. Let's not pretend there's some sort of canoninical forum somewhere that interprets things the "correct" way.

You're contradicting yourself left and right. Yes, DC heroes "have those powers".....but only sometimes, right? Because the power to defeat someone with another power is somehow unacceptable...because it....isn't possible....or something?

There's no framework for your interpretation, not mine. My framework is the stories themselves, not some forum somewhere that decided to interpret something a certain way.


Like I said. If we're using the logic you and Tiny are using, Flash beats Superman.

 

[bad seed]

The speed of arguably the fastest superhero was negated by a sword.

Yes it has.

He's basically a god. Logically try to imagine a scenario where someone operating with human time perception can defeat him. You can't.

 

[Strychnine]

Strange is aware of everything at all times. He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're fapping.

The orb of Agamotto detects Superman before he can even get a shot off, the Eye of Agamotto keeps track of Superman while he's supersonic and Dr. Strange turns him into a oyster po' boy.

 

[minute bull]

This is really hard for a lot of people to grasp and I'm not sure why.

Denial is proof Superman is unbeatable.

 

[scorpipede]

This is the nerdiest thread on sherdog I think. I love it.

 

[Bob Gray]

He's basically a god. Logically try to imagine a scenario where someone operating with human time perception can defeat him. You can't.

Logically? GTFO with "logically". None of this shit is remotely logical.

 

[Mike]

Denial is proof Superman is unbeatable.

This is the nerdiest thread on sherdog I think. I love it.

Logically? GTFO with "logically". None of this shit is remotely logical.

Logical within the framework of that world. You're acting like it's impossible for a fantasy setting to have it's own internal, logical framework. As a fantasy nerd that just isn't true. There are tons of fantasy settings with long lists of arduous boring rules,to maintain logic within that setting. Ask a D&D or Warhammer player if it's possible to have rules within a fantasy setting.

 

[Bob Gray]

See? If you get into comic book bs, I then can raise you Superman Prime and it's just an endless tunnel of iterations and interpretations.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Kal-El_(DC_One_Million)

Been awhile since I did much in the DC world. From what I remember, SMprime never actually did anything. It was just mentioned that he was like superpowered super power. Or something.

 

[Bob Gray]

Logical within the framework of that world. You're acting like it's impossible for a fantasy setting to have it's own internal, logical framework. As a fantasy nerd that just isn't true. There are tons of fantasy settings with long lists of arduous boring rules,to maintain logic within that setting. Ask a D&D or Warhammer player if it's possible to have rules within a fantasy setting.

Exactly. I'm the one using the framework of the world. You're the one ignoring it on a subjective whim.

Again, by your logic The Flash beats Superman.

 

[Mike]

Superman has been defeated several times.

Dc has weaker villains than Marvel. Yet superman still needs justice league to help him.

Lolwut????? Dcs heroes and villains are on a completely different power tier than Marvel. Dc is much, much stronger. To the point this is explicitly mentioned every time there's a crossover. MOST of the JLA are powerful enough to solo the Avengers, not just Superman. Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Captain Marvel, would all absolutely smash them with ease.