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BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

Why would eastern European bail once they are economical solid enough to pay into the EU? That just doesn't make any sense, why would they walk away from a free market that has given them prosperity? If you would work for a manufacturer that mainly export into the EU would you be in favor of your company losing its main market? Would you want your children not to have the opportunity to work anywhere in the EU to get a better paying job?
The "broken pigs" have always been broken if anything those countries are better of in the EU because countries like Germany and France guarantee their financial stability. In the off chance that France and the Netherlands have a referendum do you think they would get a majority for leave right now? They look at the UK and see what happened in the last week just on the political stage the UK is basically leaderless because of the leave vote. All the economical hardship is still to come and the possibility of Scotland splitting. And they would be even worst off because they are using the Euro.

But I agree on the illegal immigration and refugees crisis was handled extremely poorly. But that doesn't mean we cant learn from that.

Once they are economically solid they don't need the eu or the fascist scum that run it, they want strength and a nation not be whores of the Eu like the westerners are fine being. You think they want their children being rape by muslims like the germs sweds are or little girls in london ? they sure as fuck wont accept any muslims the way Eu is trying to force down their throats.

Never said PIGS want to leave, but they are dragging down the whole block. Ohh yes it will go over so well in Eastern Europe when they have to pay into the EU to keep a bunch of lazy Spanish Greeks afloat.

Eu is run by leftist morons blind to facts, clearly they don't learn from anything. The Uk leaving they want MORE EU and less free nation states and more EU bureaucracy. Because that how those inept leftist fools are. Any mistakes made just double down on, people say no just rewrite what you want passed and don't ask them a second time.

Uk has plenty to sort out but they will be better of in the long ruin, Eu is a failing cess pool of shit. Give them time to put in a competent leader get the fuck out of the EU and they will be golden.
 
You're welcomed, folks! :cool:

Now that I'm back from my vacation, let's continue to have a productive discussion once again! :)

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To WR Mods @Lead Salad, @Zankou, @Madmick: please do us all a favor and DO NOT merge other shitty copy-cat threads into our ongoing discussion, something that happened multiple times over the course of Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.

If there is a duplicated/rehashed topic intentionally made in the WR with inferior contents that offers absolutely no added value to the discussion whatsoever, there's no reason why you shouldn't send it straight to the Wasteland immediately, rather than allowing the garbage to build up and fester for days, before one of your esteemed colleagues decide to "contribute" to our organized discussion table here by dumping the aforementioned garbage all over it.

Thank you for your considerations.


Or they could just make you mod. I mean you are running your own sub forum of topics here.
 
Once they are economically solid they don't need the eu or the fascist scum that run it, they want strength and a nation not be whores of the Eu like the westerners are fine being. You think they want their children being rape by muslims like the germs sweds are or little girls in london ? they sure as fuck wont accept any muslims the way Eu is trying to force down their throats.

Never said PIGS want to leave, but they are dragging down the whole block. Ohh yes it will go over so well in Eastern Europe when they have to pay into the EU to keep a bunch of lazy Spanish Greeks afloat.

Eu is run by leftist morons blind to facts, clearly they don't learn from anything. The Uk leaving they want MORE EU and less free nation states and more EU bureaucracy. Because that how those inept leftist fools are. Any mistakes made just double down on, people say no just rewrite what you want passed and don't ask them a second time.

Uk has plenty to sort out but they will be better of in the long ruin, Eu is a failing cess pool of shit. Give them time to put in a competent leader get the fuck out of the EU and they will be golden.

I am not sure how to respond to that? Are you aware that people vote in European elections? And other people that are in the EU get appointment from people that are democratically elected?
You seem to be under the impression that some people just showed up in Brussels and now rule the EU with an iron fist.

If you say the EU is run by "leftist morons" it is simply false statement, do you even know the name of the leading party in the European parliament without google it?
 
EU trade chief says U.S. trade talks can survive Brexit

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The European Union's top trade official said on Wednesday that she is still aiming to complete negotiations for a sweeping free trade deal with the United States this year, despite Britain's vote last week to leave the 28-nation bloc.

EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said her team is pressing ahead with talks over the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and is still negotiating on behalf of Britain as a member state, a condition that will continue for perhaps more than two years as London negotiates an exit.

"We will do whatever we can to make sure that we make as much progress as possible in the coming month, and, if possible, conclude it before the Obama administration leaves office," Malmstrom said at an Atlantic Council event in Washington. "That is still the 'Plan A' and that has not changed even if the (British) referendum is there."

Trade experts have said that Britain's looming departure from the EU will dash hopes for completing TTIP in the final months of Obama's term, cutting out Europe's second-largest economy and diverting attention and political capital to sorting out the UK-EU relationship.

But Malmstrom insisted that the TTIP deal would survive the Brexit decision. She met on Tuesday with U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman in Washington to make preparations for the 14th round of TTIP negotiations in Brussels starting July 11.

"There are a lot of uncertainties related to Brexit. We can't answer them now we will have to wait until we see a clearer picture," she said. "But for now and for the immediate future, the United Kingdom is a member of the European Union, and we negotiate this on behalf of all 28 members."

EU prime ministers and heads of state on Tuesday affirmed that the bloc's trade agenda, which includes TTIP and a number of other prospective trade deals, would continue.

She said EU negotiators who are British citizens will continue to participate in the talks, adding, "They do not work for the UK, they work for the European Union and they will stay."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-usa-trade-idUKKCN0ZF2II
 
Paul Ryan urges new trade deal with Britain after Brexit
By Karoun Demirjian
June 29, 2016

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House Speaker Paul D. Ryan is calling on the administration to start talking to the United Kingdom about a new trade agreement to ensure “a smooth” relationship after the country parts ways with the European Union.

But other key Republicans are urging patience while the complicated Brexit process unfolds.

Republicans have been wrestling with how to respond — particularly on the issue of trade — to last week’s referendum in which British voters decided to leave the E.U. American voters in both parties registered their anti-trade sentiment during this year’s presidential primaries, and Donald Trump delivered a fiery speech Tuesday night vowing to rip up trade deals as president.

Ryan (R-Wis.) advocates being aggressive early in establishing deals with Britain.

“Obviously it takes time to do something like this, but I think it is something we should be working on,” Ryan told ABC affiliate WISN in Wisconsin last week, according to comments his office published on the speaker’s website Monday. “We should begin discussions with Great Britain to ease concerns so that we do have a smooth trade relationship with Great Britain, because they are our indispensable ally.”

Ryan later added on Wisconsin radio station WBEL that negotiations with Britain should be done on “a parallel track” to ongoing talks with the E.U. toward a trade agreement known as the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, or TTIP.

Ryan, a frequent champion of free trade as a tool to improve foreign relations, isn’t the only lawmaker urging the administration to launch talks with London to ensure the U.S.-U.K. relationship won’t be harmed by British-European divorce proceedings.

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) said in a statement Friday soon after the Brexit results were announced that talks should begin now.

Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) announced Friday that he would introduce legislation that would require the United States and Britain to “honor our current arrangements” until new bilateral deals are drafted. It also would direct the U.S. trade representative to begin negotiations “as soon as possible.”

But on Tuesday, other Republicans urged more patience before the United States dives into negotiating a new deal.

“It’s going to take some time for them to figure out their transition exit from the E.U.,” said Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), a member of the Senate GOP’s leadership team and the Finance Committee, which has jurisdiction over trade issues. “Until that happens, I think it’s probably going to be difficult for us to weigh in there.”

Thune also pointed out that it would be hard for the United States to negotiate a trade deal with London until Washington has a better sense of what Britain’s trade relationship with the E.U. will be post-split.

“I think we should wait and see how it shakes out,” said Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), stressing the same uncertainty.

Portman, who is a Finance Committee member and served as U.S. trade representative in the George W. Bush administration, also cautioned against trying to separate talks with Britain from ongoing trade talks with the E.U.

“We need [Britain] to help us influence the rest of Europe to be open to our products,” Portman said, pointing out that Britain was “less protectionist” than many European countries and has been “a relatively positive force” in negotiating with Europe.

It is the administration’s job to negotiate trade deals and then submit them to Congress for approval. Last year, Congress renewed “fast track” authority, which establishes a procedure under which Congress cannot amend the agreements and can approve trade deals with a simple majority.

Since then, however, lawmakers in both parties have expressed skepticism about approving the pending 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement as the electorate’s mood toward trade deals has soured. It’s not clear when Congress will vote on the deal, but it almost certainly will have to wait until after the election.

Any new deals struck with Britain would almost certainly have to be considered by the next president and a future Congress.

Britain is not expected to formally commence withdrawal proceedings until after a prime minister is chosen to replace David Cameron, something that may not happen until September. And Britain and the E.U. have two years after Britain formally commences that process to negotiate the final terms of their separation.

There are some questions about whether Britain will even get to that point; millions of Britons have petitioned the government for a second referendum — although a second vote is unlikely at this point.

Democrats seemed uninterested in jumping into new trade negotiations until more of these uncertainties surrounding Brexit are ironed out.

“I think we’ve got to let the dust settle before we decide anything because of Europe,” said Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), who sits on the Finance Committee.

Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), also a committee member, said: “It’s too early to tell if we do separate trade agreements. I don’t even know what that means yet.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eal-with-the-u-k-but-others-say-its-too-soon/
 
The Brexit Fix: Add the UK to NAFTA?
Elizabeth MacDonald
June 28, 2016

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Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan said in a local Wisconsin interview that he supports a free trade deal with the United Kingdom after it has separated from the European Union.

By putting the UK at the front of the queue in trade talks, that would be the exact opposite of moving one of America’s oldest and most important allies to “the back of the queue” -- as President Barack Obama warned would happen this past spring if the UK voted to leave.

To do that, add the UK to the North American Free Trade Agreement struck in 1994. Top officials with the “Three Amigos,” the U.S., Canada and Mexico, are already meeting in Ottawa to discuss NAFTA starting June 29; President Obama is scheduled to speak. In fact, members of Congress back in the 1990s had initially wanted to include the UK. To the point where the Senate Finance Committee in 1999 commissioned a study by the U.S. International Trade Commission on the UK joining NAFTA. That study found that UK exports to NAFTA members would increase by about $5.3 billion, while UK exports to European Union (EU) countries would drop by about $17 billion.

The U.S. is the UK's most significant trading partner. The U.S. exported $56.1 billion in goods to the UK alone last year, while UK exports to the U.S. total about $50 billion annually. The UK enjoys a record $587.9 billion in U.S. foreign direct investment as of two years ago. UK foreign direct investment in the U.S. totals about $448.5 billion. U.S. companies employed over 1.2 million UK workers in the U.S., and UK companies employ about 1.1 million Americans, as of 2014. The U.S. exported $218 billion in goods to the EU last year, says Wells Fargo.

Lost in the handwringing is perspective. Trade deals with European democracies were vital to calming potential conflicts after World War II and stopping the Cold War. But instead of true free markets and trade, the EU opted for the policy of a ballooning European supranational that challenged NATO, hyper-managed markets, stressed “harmonization” over encouraging the next Google or Apple, and flat-lined EU growth while adding to the euracracy in Brussels and its suffocating couch cushion of regulatory powers.

Expanding NAFTA to include the UK could be done alongside U.S. talks with the European Union on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP).

However, the White House would be expected to drag its feet on updating NAFTA to include the UK, since it didn’t support a Brexit. Yet, given that so much about NAFTA needs to be updated anyway--it was enacted before the Internet took off and trade online burgeoned—isn’t it common sense to strike some kind of direct trade deal with the U.K. within the existing structure?

A U.S.-UK trade deal would help stabilize the Brexit crisis, House Speaker Ryan said.

“We need to emphasize that [the U.K. is] our indispensable ally," Rep. Ryan told Milwaukee’s WISN radio. "We have a special relationship, and I think that does mean we should have a trade agreement with” the UK.

Speaker Ryan added: “We need to show our solidarity. Obviously it takes time to do something like this, but I think it is something we should be working on.”

Other members of Congress support a U.S.-UK trade deal. "They've been a great trading partner to the United States for decades and decades, and I wouldn't stop trading with them 'cause they got out of the EU," Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) said before the “Leave” vote.

"I'd be happy to negotiate a bilateral agreement,” the senator said, adding, "it might even be easier" than hammering out the larger EU trade deal involving 27 countries, given how simpatico the U.S. and the UK are in areas such as financial services, and given how senators, including Senator Mitch McConnell, are worried about potential EU intransigence on agriculture in TTIP.

"We should now begin to discuss a modern, new trade agreement with the UK that not only continues but expands the level of trade between our two nations," House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady said last Friday.

The presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump might also back a U.S.-UK trade deal.

“I want one-on-one" trade, Trump said at a rally last month in Indiana. "I don't want to be tied up: If 'Country A' does this and if 'Country C' does that, then 'Country D' will be able to come to — nobody knows what the hell is going on.”

And despite the hyperventilation, there are plenty of trade mechanisms the UK could model itself after once it fully departs the EU. Just take a look at the much-ignored European Free Trade Association (EFTA). Its four country members--Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland-- are not in the EU, but they enjoy robust free trade agreements with an estimated 35 nations, reaching an estimated 440 million consumers outside the EU, with potentially dozens more countries on the way to being involved.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/28/brexit-fix-add-uk-to-nafta.html
 
Paul Ryan urges new trade deal with Britain after Brexit
By Karoun Demirjian
June 29, 2016

imrs.php



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eal-with-the-u-k-but-others-say-its-too-soon/

I am just wondering how the UK can do anything related to trade deals for at least 2 years. I mean wouldn't they have to wait first until the UK officially left the EU. Why would the US for example start doing trade deals if they don't know how the UK will look past the EU exit

They are basically in a 2 year limbo now.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...s-brought-to-his-knees-by-the-cuckoo-nest-pl/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...s-brought-to-his-knees-by-the-cuckoo-nest-pl/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...s-brought-to-his-knees-by-the-cuckoo-nest-pl/
I don't know if you guys have been reading this, but I've been fascinated by the development between Michael Gove and Boris Johnson. They had worked together on the Brexit (and had worked together for decades prior, even going to school together) and were expected to work together as a dream ticket.

Johnson, former mayor of London and Brexit leader, was literally hours away from announcing his run for leadership when Michael Gove stabbed him in the back, announcing that HE was running for leadership, too. The sudden support for Gove left Johnson in shambles, who then showed up at his scheduled press conference to announce that he was not running.

Here's another article with an interesting tidbithttps://www.theguardian.com/comment...and-michael-gove-betrayed-britain-over-brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...and-michael-gove-betrayed-britain-over-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...and-michael-gove-betrayed-britain-over-brexit
This week’s antics of Gove and Johnson are a useful reminder. For the way one has treated the other is the way both have treated the country. Some may be tempted to turn Johnson into an object of sympathy – poor Boris, knifed by his pal – but he deserves none. In seven days he has been exposed as an egomaniac whose vanity and ambition was so great he was prepared to lead his country on a path he knew led to disaster, so long as it fed his own appetite for status.

He didn’t believe a word of his own rhetoric, we know that now. His face last Friday morning, ashen with the terror of victory, proved it. That hot mess of a column he served up on Monday confirmed it again: he was trying to back out of the very decision he’d persuaded the country to make. And let’s not be coy: persuade it, he did. Imagine the Leave campaign without him. Gove, Nigel Farage and Gisela Stuart: they couldn’t have done it without the star power of Boris.

He knew it was best for Britain to remain in the EU. But it served his ambition to argue otherwise. We just weren’t meant to fall for it. Once we had, he panicked, vanishing during a weekend of national crisis before hiding from parliament. He lit the spark then ran away – petrified at the blaze he started.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...and-michael-gove-betrayed-britain-over-brexit
 
I left England mainly because I didn't think the Brits had the guts to do this any more, I'm surprised we actually got this right.
The lefty students really need to stop crying about it though, its embarrassing, and trying to push through another vote because they didn't get their own way pretty much sums these people up. If they try wriggle out of this one I expect (and hope for) civil war
 
I am just wondering how the UK can do anything related to trade deals for at least 2 years. I mean wouldn't they have to wait first until the UK officially left the EU. Why would the US for example start doing trade deals if they don't know how the UK will look past the EU exit

They are basically in a 2 year limbo now.

Since all the candidates to replace Cameron have already said they don't want to trigger Article 50 this year, it's going to be more than 2 years.

We could help our British friends out by merely initiating our own trade deal though, it would take years to complete, but the mere fact that a concurrent negotiation has already begun with the biggest economy in the world would give them at least some leverage when they sit down to negotiate with the E.U, instead of looking like an unwanted orphan and be shafted in the tariffs department (which is near certain if they're not willing to respect the Four Freedom in exchange for access to the single market).

Or they could just make you mod. I mean you are running your own sub forum of topics here.

You don't wanna see me in Blue, pal :cool:

I'd give out infractions like Halloween candies to the spammers in the WR, and post counts would plummets after the worthless, bottom-of-the-barrel half of this neighborhood's population would be banned within the first month.

Then it wouldn't be long until The War Room would need a name change to The Board Room, because the passionate social-political discussions in here would looks too organized and professional to be liken to the chaos of wars. It would be more like men in suits arguing with each other in a televised debate, rather than dirty apes flinging mud and feces at the zoo.

We can't have that now, do we. Some folks still need this place to vent their daily frustrations, presumably by flinging mud and feces at each other in the threads not organized/indexed/moderated by me. :D

I don't know if you guys have been reading this, but I've been fascinated by the development between Michael Gove and Boris Johnson. They had worked together on the Brexit (and had worked together for decades prior, even going to school together) and were expected to work together as a dream ticket.

Johnson, former mayor of London and Brexit leader, was literally hours away from announcing his run for leadership when Michael Gove stabbed him in the back, announcing that HE was running for leadership, too. The sudden support for Gove left Johnson in shambles, who then showed up at his scheduled press conference to announce that he was not running.
That's not really a mystery. One quick look at the Thread Index in the OP and you would know exactly what we have been discussing in here.

And yes, we have been reading about that, as our segment about Boris and Gove took place several days ago back on page 14.

Frankly, I don't know how you could have missed it. The fall-out from Gove's back-stabbing was exactly the topic of discussion at the moment when you, for some strange reasons that we still don't understand, decided to jump in and immediately went off-topic about some bizarre hoax about bottled water that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what we were debating.
 
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What's done is done. The vote is in. Brexit is happening. Not sure what these folks are doing anyway.

If anything, these pointless protests weakens the U.K's hand at the negotiation table with the E.U

Thousands Protest in London Against Brexit

Organizers claim 50,000 people attended march to protest against the U.K. leaving the EU
By Nicholas Winning
July 2, 2016


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LONDON—Several thousand people marched through central London on Saturday to protest against the U.K. leaving the European Union after a national vote last week to exit the bloc.

Outgoing Prime Minister David Cameron has said the referendum result—where about 52% voted to leave the EU—will be respected, and the government has begun laying the groundwork for what are expected to be several years of complicated negotiations to extricate the U.K. from the bloc.

The five candidates hoping to succeed Mr. Cameron as leader of the governing Conservative Party and prime minister when he steps down in the fall—two of which supported staying in the EU—have also said they accepted the result.

Nevertheless, some of the protesters who took to the streets of London on Saturday said they still held out hope that the government wouldn’t go through with it, and would remain in the EU. Some on the march voiced anger at what they said were lies in the referendum campaign—others said that while they accepted the result, it was still important to show that not everyone agreed with it.

Margaret Murray, a 63-year-old retired teacher said it would be political suicide for any leader to try to overturn the referendum—in which 17.4 million voted to leave and 16.1 million backed remaining—but she hoped the economic repercussions would be so bad that the government wouldn’t go through with it.

“I think there’s a certain element of the population that thinks you can’t overturn the democratic will, however, I think it’s also important to not lie down, keep quiet, and forget about it. I think it’s important that large numbers of people make their voice heard,” she said.

The demonstration, dubbed “March for Europe,” was organized on Facebook by various small pressure groups. On their dedicated Facebook page, organizers said they could prevent a so-called Brexit by refusing to accept the referendum.

“Let’s not leave the next generation adrift. We can provide the ammunition parliament needs to reason their way through this mess and reconsider Brexit, if we make a stand!” it said.

A spokeswoman for the organizers said some 50,000 people attended the march. Police declined to give an estimate.

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After the march, organizers issued a statement condemning what they characterized as misinformation during the referendum campaign and called on politicians to provide a clear road map for a partnership with Europe.

“Politicians must be prepared to put to the British people their prospectus for the new way forward through a general election or second referendum,” they said.

London Police said no arrests had been made during the march or at the subsequent gathering on the square in front of the parliament buildings.

There was a light police presence, with a ring of officers standing around the parliament perimeter fence and two police helicopters hovering overhead.

Speakers including Irish rock star and anti-famine campaigner Bob Geldof—who campaigned for the U.K. to stay in the EU—and others addressed the crowd in the summer sunshine. The protesters strained to hear the speakers from a platform at one end of the square, waving banners that read “I heart EU,” “Eunity not hate” and “Fromage not Farage” a reference to Nigel Farage, the leader of the anti-EU UK Independence Party.

Oly Brunskill, a 23-year-old student, doubted the demonstration would change the result but said it was important for people to show they still supported aspects of EU membership, such as freedom of movement and access to the European single market. People were stunned by the vote and in a state of grief, he said.

“It’s quite a cathartic march—I think people are very disillusioned with the nation right now,” he said. “It’s a bit of a cliché, but I believe we are better together, stronger together, and it’s a shame it turned out this way.”

It remains unclear whether the march in London marks the beginning of a concerted effort to overturn the vote, which has been broadly accepted by lawmakers from across the political spectrum.

A handful of lawmakers have suggested Britons should have the opportunity to reverse the decision in a second referendum or general election once the eventual terms of the U.K.’s exit from the bloc are set.

Geraint Davies, a lawmaker for the opposition Labour Party, presented a motion in parliament this week calling for a referendum on agreeing the terms of the U.K.-EU exit package or on remaining in the EU. The motion, which is not binding, has been backed by four other lawmakers, though there is little sign that it is garnering wider support.

Some have also suggested that parliament, as the ultimate arbiter of policy, needs to give its consent before the government can trigger Article 50, the formal process for exiting the EU.

“Our democracy does not allow, much less require, decision-making by referendum. That role belongs to the representatives of the people and not to the people themselves,” Geoffrey Robertson, a leading human rights lawyer, wrote in the Guardian newspaper on Monday. “By November, there may be other very good reasons for [lawmakers] to refuse to leave Europe. Brexit may turn out to be just too difficult.”

Some of the protesters said the misinformation during the campaign, particularly on the “leave” side, left the referendum result open to question.

“I don’t think it is a valid decision and I think the campaign was based on a lot of false promises, lies,” said Robert Phillips, a 45-year-old photographer.

His friend, George Forth, a 42-year-old project manager, said leaving the EU just felt wrong, for the people, for the economy, for the country, and for business.

“In the world we are this tiny little island that used to be important,” he said. “It’s laughable to think that we have any power. We are nothing without the rest of Europe.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/thousands-protest-in-london-against-brexit-1467478717
 
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I left England mainly because I didn't think the Brits had the guts to do this any more, I'm surprised we actually got this right.
The lefty students really need to stop crying about it though, its embarrassing, and trying to push through another vote because they didn't get their own way pretty much sums these people up. If they try wriggle out of this one I expect (and hope for) civil war
To be fair the leave side would lose pretty handily in a civil war ......u cant work a zimmer frame and a machine gun at same time.
 
I am just wondering how the UK can do anything related to trade deals for at least 2 years. I mean wouldn't they have to wait first until the UK officially left the EU. Why would the US for example start doing trade deals if they don't know how the UK will look past the EU exit

They are basically in a 2 year limbo now.
True
The eu has hit the leave camp with a bombshell that trade deal without free movement of peoples is off the table
.....pretty much the engine of their whole movememt stripped with that one
The bbc has been running a series of 'reality check' pieces too which havent helped the exit camp either.
 
To be fair the leave side would lose pretty handily in a civil war ......u cant work a zimmer frame and a machine gun at same time.
I would say that someone working a zimmer frame vs. a millennial would be a pretty fair fight actually.
 
The eu has hit the leave camp with a bombshell that trade deal without free movement of peoples is off the table

No, that's simply not true.

The U.K can still work out a regular trade deal with the E.U, just like any other non-EU countries around the world (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, et al) are doing. They just no longer have preferential access to the single market (otherwise known as the Internal Market) like all EU members, if they decide to no longer adhere to the EU's four core principles.

This is not a "bombshell", or even remotely surprising in any way, shape, or form. It's how the European Union works, always have been.

There were multiple debates over this Single Market issue before the vote, and everyone who's actually paying attention knew long ago that this is exactly what's going to happen.

The "Vote Leave" camp certainly understood that very well, that's why they INSISTED that "the U.K doesn't need single market access to the E.U" while campaigning to the voters, and it looks like 52% of British voters either believed that to be true, or too stupid to understand what that even means, or perhaps they simply don't care, because to them everything is secondary to "Take back Control".

Anyway, we have been through this Single Market Access business in great details many many times, in this thread as well as in the previous ones. The Thread Index in the OP also include multiple articles in regards to this matter. I suggest anyone who is still behind on this very basic economic concept to begins catching up, NOW.
 
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I am not sure how to respond to that? Are you aware that people vote in European elections? And other people that are in the EU get appointment from people that are democratically elected?
You seem to be under the impression that some people just showed up in Brussels and now rule the EU with an iron fist.

If you say the EU is run by "leftist morons" it is simply false statement, do you even know the name of the leading party in the European parliament without google it?

So who elected Junker or Tusk ? out of what 9 commissions what two have elections where actual people vote and they happen to be powerless, the rest is all inhouse and the power lays with un elected officials that the citizens cant vote out of office. Ruling aristocrats elites that choose between them selves who rules next, awesome display of democracy from leftist morons.

Don't give a shit about the leading party, i can see by the Eu decision making and thinking that who runs it are leftist morons that are deluded and dream that Islamist scum can ever live side by side with free democratic people its leftist morons that are trying to destroy nation and cultures for a moronic leftist utopia dream of multiculturalism something that has never worker long tern anywhere especially when muslims are involved.
 
To be fair the leave side would lose pretty handily in a civil war ......u cant work a zimmer frame and a machine gun at same time.
I think we'd do just fine against some students who can't decide if they're 'genderfluid' or not
 
That is illusion mate, do you think Merkel cares if 10.000 guys lose their job at VW. She just let 1 Million refugees into the country and her reelection is still not anywhere close to in danger.

If this would cause any bigger issue she would just substitute the car industry like she has done in the past. The EU is way to important for Germany that they can accept any sort of deal that encourages other countries to leave, nothing to do with spite or anger, its just to important for Germany.

Merkel has been the worse ruler of Germany in history ..... ok close 2nd
 
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