BREXIT Discussion, v4.0: The Back-Pedaling

[lifelessheap]

I'm Muslim - I think they aren't necessary and personally wouldn't want my wife to wear one (although it would be her choice not mine). They aren't necessary and there is no religious basis for it either.

Many Muslim women that do wear - do so out of choice. Even within the Muslim community - the burqa is thought of as an extreme tbh. That's why so few Muslim women wear it - when we're talking about the Burqa - we're talking about a very small number of people - maybe ten thousand.

That said I don't think it's societies place to tell specific women what they can or cannot wear. That said I think there should be requirements in public places where it should be mandatory that they be removed - given the social climate & security issues. But I think this may cause further issues - as I'd imagine many would just chose not to enter public places which actually does suppress them from public life - whereas at least now they do participate to a degree.

Personally I don't view it as oppressive - many women that wear it don't either. I just think why on earth would you want to cut yourself out of reality by putting cloth between you and your vision of reality. I just honestly find it stupid more than anything else. But to each their own.

If you give your wife a choice then I don't consider you a 'real' Muslim. You are a Muslim like I am a Catholic.

 

[lifelessheap]

sovereignty and self determination are racist ideas!

 

[Arkain2K]

When they say so most sig partner they mean in Europe? Pretty sure Canada is the USA 's largest trading partner.

There seems to be a little misunderstanding there, bud.

The article said "The U.S is the U.K's most significant trading partner", NOT the reverse.

The Brexit Fix: Add the UK to NAFTA?
Elizabeth MacDonald
June 28, 2016
​

The U.S. is the UK's most significant trading partner. The U.S. exported $56.1 billion in goods to the UK alone last year, while UK exports to the U.S. total about $50 billion annually. The UK enjoys a record $587.9 billion in U.S. foreign direct investment as of two years ago. UK foreign direct investment in the U.S. totals about $448.5 billion. U.S. companies employed over 1.2 million UK workers in the U.S., and UK companies employ about 1.1 million Americans, as of 2014. The U.S. exported $218 billion in goods to the EU last year, says Wells Fargo.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/28/brexit-fix-add-uk-to-nafta.html

Here are the U.K's Top 15 trade partners for 2015:

1. United States: $66.5 billion (14.5% of total UK exports)
2. Germany: $46.4 billion (10.1%)
3. Switzerland: $32.2 billion (7%)
4. China: $27.4 billion (5.9%)
5. France: $27 billion (5.9%)
6. Netherlands: $26.6 billion (5.8%)
7. Ireland: $25.5 billion (5.5%)
8. Belgium: $17.8 billion (3.9%)
9. Spain: $13.1 billion (2.8%)
10. Italy: $12.9 billion (2.8%)
11. United Arab Emirates: $10.3 billion (2.2%)
12. Hong Kong: $9.6 billion (2.1%)
13. South Korea: $7 billion (1.5%)
14. Saudi Arabia: $6.7 billion (1.5%)
15. Sweden: $6.6 billion (1.4%)

In contrast, Canada is the U.S' most significant trading parner, and we exported to the tune of $280.3 billion worth of goods up north last year. Mexico is our #2 at $236.4 billion, then China with $116.2 billion, Japan with $62.5 billion. The U.K comes in fifth on our list at $56.4 billion.

If the U.K can be added to NAFTA while the deals with the EU are still being hammered out, they would probably frog-jump Japan on our chart, I think. Who knows, there might even be more Fords and Dodges on British road than Volkswagens, hahaha.

 

[whougonnacall]

No, that's simply not true.

The U.K can still work out a regular trade deal with the E.U, just like any other non-EU countries around the world (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, et al) are doing. They just no longer have preferential access to the single market (otherwise known as the Internal Market) like all EU members, if they decide to no longer adhere to the EU's four core principles.

This is not a "bombshell", or even remotely surprising in any way, shape, or form. It's how the European Union works, always have been.

There were multiple debates over this Single Market issue before the vote, and everyone who's actually paying attention knew long ago that this is exactly what's going to happen.

The "Vote Leave" camp certainly understood that very well, that's why they INSISTED that "the U.K doesn't need single market access to the E.U" while campaigning to the voters, and it looks like 52% of British voters either believed that to be true, or too stupid to understand what that even means, or perhaps they simply don't care, because to them everything is secondary to "Take back Control".

Anyway, we have been through this Single Market Access business in great details many many times, in this thread as well as in the previous ones. The Thread Index in the OP also include multiple articles in regards to this matter. I suggest anyone who is still behind on this very basic economic concept to begins catching up, NOW.

Il go with too stupid to understand what that even means ....ur vastly overestimating the brexit voters, they are like ur trump supporters really.
Try ' bbc eu referendum reality check' and ul see what i mean

 

[whougonnacall]

I think we'd do just fine against some students who can't decide if they're 'genderfluid' or not

Id say about less students are into that than are people who mess themselves and need food mushed up on the other camp
Bear in mind for every student that wants a ' safe zone' theres another that came out of uni and slapped ona gun to go shoot some taliban

 

[KnightTemplar]

Democracy is a binary state. You either follow the democratic process or you don't. Claiming to be a democracy while refusing to carry out the democratic will of the people is like claiming to still be a virgin because you've never gone raw dog.

The people voted. The fact that a large percentage of the population disagree with the result is utterly irrelevant. The result is all that matters. Remain campaigners don't get to keep asking the same question until they get the answer they want. That's not how democracy works. No matter how much our politicians might wish otherwise.

 

[Arkain2K]

Democracy is a binary state. You either follow the democratic process or you don't. Claiming to be a democracy while refusing to carry out the democratic will of the people is like claiming to still be a virgin because you've never gone raw dog.

The people voted. The fact that a large percentage of the population disagree with the result is utterly irrelevant. The result is all that matters. Remain campaigners don't get to keep asking the same question until they get the answer they want. That's not how democracy works. No matter how much our politicians might wish otherwise.

Completely agree.

If voters were to take it to the streets every time a politician won the election legitimately by 52% of the vote, rather than stands together with the accepted result, many democratic countries probably wouldn't even have a government.

The hawks in the E.U are probably laughing their ass off to see tens of thousands of British pointlessly protesting their own Brexit vote results, knowing their bargaining power are increasing while the British government leverage's drops with each day of Brexit stalling and protesting.

These protesters say they're frustrated and feels like they have to do something. May I suggest they start knocking on doors and remind young voters the importance of actually voting rather than just talk about it on Facebook? I'm pretty sure that the REAL reason why the "Leave" side won, anyway.

 

[Hard To Tell]

That march in London was disturbing on so many levels. A very worrying sign of times.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Completely agree.

If voters were to take it to the streets every time a politician won the election legitimately by 52% of the vote, rather than stands together with the accepted result, many democratic countries probably wouldn't even have a government.

The hawks in the E.U are probably laughing their ass off to see tens of thousands of British pointlessly protesting their own Brexit vote results, knowing their bargaining power are increasing while the British government leverage's drops with each day of Brexit stalling and protesting.

These protesters say they're frustrated and feels like they have to do something. May I suggest they start knocking on doors and remind young voters the importance of actually voting rather than just talk about it on Facebook? I'm pretty sure that the REAL reason why the "Leave" side won, anyway.

Indeed. If I recall correctly, something like 28% of registered voters did not cast a vote. Given how close the result was, that could easily have swayed the result for Remain.

 

[Arkain2K]

Wonder if these people actually realize that by blatantly asking their government to ignore the Brexit vote result, they are effectively protesting against Democracy?

Fortunately, I don't think any of the people who are running for David Cameron's soon to be vacant seat are crazy enough to cave into mob rules.

 

[KnightTemplar]

That march in London was disturbing on so many levels. A very worrying sign of times.

It could get much, much worse. There's always the chance that our politicians go Full Retard and simply refuse to enact the decision of the people. The referendum result is not legally binding. Parliament has to formally withdraw the UK from the European Union. If politicians refuse to do that, they show utter contempt for the democratic principals they are sworn to uphold. And that way lies chaos.

 

[Hard To Tell]

It could get much, much worse. There's always the chance that our politicians go Full Retard and simply refuse to enact the decision of the people. The referendum result is not legally binding. Parliament has to formally withdraw the UK from the European Union. If politicians refuse to do that, they show utter contempt for the democratic principals they are sworn to uphold. And that way lies chaos.

That's the worry. These people have also dispensed with the PC vaneer they once had and now make no attempt to hide their contempt and hatred for democracy, the poor and ordinary people in general. They are basically fascists.

This was the last time someone did something similar in London

Oh millennials and "lefties", what company you keep.

 

[whougonnacall]

It could get much, much worse. There's always the chance that our politicians go Full Retard and simply refuse to enact the decision of the people. The referendum result is not legally binding. Parliament has to formally withdraw the UK from the European Union. If politicians refuse to do that, they show utter contempt for the democratic principals they are sworn to uphold. And that way lies chaos.

The issue is though is it was a razor thin vote not really the 'mandate' some have declared it and politicans are usualy in the game for life ..2 years is an eternity in politics
Look at the labour party...corbyn stomped rivals to win his parties leadership and still enjoys massive grassroots support on his side.....prob out of his own party by weeks end.

 

[whougonnacall]

Wonder if these people actually realize that by blatantly asking their government to ignore the Brexit vote result, they are effectively protesting against Democracy?

Fortunately, I don't think any of the people who are running for David Cameron's soon to be vacant seat are crazy enough to cave into mob rules.

Protesting isnt part of democracy?

 

[KnightTemplar]

The issue is though is it was a razor thin vote not really the 'mandate' some have declared it and politicans are usualy in the game for life ..2 years is an eternity in politics

The margin of victory is irrelevant. You don't get Mulligans in a parliamentary democracy. Any more than you get to demand a replay of the Super Bowl because your team only lost by four points.

As the classic political quotation goes, "The people have spoken - the BASTARDS!" Remain and our politicians have to lie back and enjoy it. There really is other option if they want to continue to live in a democracy.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Protesting isnt part of democracy?

They have the right to protest. They have no right to demand a democratic decision be overturned just because they don't agree with it.

 

[Hard To Tell]

Protesting isnt part of democracy?

They have the right to protest, we have the right to be dismayed at what they represent.

 

[whougonnacall]

They have the right to protest, we have the right to be dismayed at what they represent.

Young people angry that the walking dead have fucked them over?

 

[whougonnacall]

They have the right to protest. They have no right to demand a democratic decision be overturned just because they don't agree with it.

It was a poll basicaly it has no legal enforcement

 

[Hard To Tell]

Young people angry that the walking dead have fucked them over?

Not this again. 64% of young people didn't even bother voting so clearly they don't care that much.