BJJ Practitioners do you have a problem with how this ended?

[mattemate]

Better pic. Video linked below. Timestamp in the pic, it's about 31 minutes in. Bear in mind, this is someone from within his own association. Kid is definitely nasty. Wow.

 

[Matsukaze]

I thought people had a problem with Palhares because he refused to let go even after the tap

You beat me to it. Lol Everyone hated on him for doing this same thing but yet this little fella does it

 

[shunyata]

Because their BJJ sucks, like I said.

Speaking of Danaher and Gordon Ryan, they literally put out instructionals on their whole system. Or watch Craig Jones. There is so much material out there showing people how to do it right, and you still get this amatuer stuff damaging people's knees for no reason besides poor control and trying to muscle everything. Why are you so concerned about defending this nonsense? Is your technique this bad? Are you one of those spazzes in the gym who injures everyone?

I train with heelhooks. After seeing what Pat did to his own teammates at an in house 10th Planet tournament, I'd never even roll with him if I met him in real life.

And I'd roll with Palhares.

 

[deadshot138]

Better pic. Video linked below. Timestamp in the pic, it's about 31 minutes in. Bear in mind, this is someone from within his own association. Kid is definitely nasty. Wow.

View attachment 950022

Ok that's not a traditional inside heel hook. His legs are wrapped around the opposite leg. That's some other kind of fuckery that causes tremendous damage.

 

[shunyata]

Ok that's not a traditional inside heel hook. His legs are wrapped around the opposite leg. That's some other kind of fuckery that causes tremendous damage.

Aoki lock on the far side leg from 50/50

 

[cheachea]

I bet people will refuse to compete with this person in the future.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Im not interested in defending Gordeau, like I said before he’s a dirty fighter. I do wonder though if there have been any tournaments that actually were no rules, maybe one of the old nhb ones Vovchanchyn used to fight in?

I suppose it's possible. It's not well documented. The documents, if they even exist at this point, wouldn't be in English. But there is documentation that the early UFC, Vale Tudo Japan and Brazilian Vale Tudo events didn't allow biting, eye gouging and fish-hooking. And with good reason.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I think you read the interview with Big John wrong. From what I remember he went to Rorion after reffing ufc 2 and told him he had to be able to stop fights because someone was going to get killed and rorion agreed. Big John was a training partner for Royce for ufc 1 he didn’t ref that event.

The ref for UFC 1 was an older Brazilian guy who I believe was a BJJ ref and didn't seem to know how to handle Vale Tudo. He even missed some of the tap outs, he was pretty bad. Big John was A LOT better, although he had some BIG fuck ups as well. But he was a definite improvement.



The reason why Royce held onto the choke after the tap in the final fight is twofold. One, in the fight with Ken Shamrock, the ref didn't see Shamrock tap and Royce, being an honorable BJJ practitioner, let go as soon as Shamrock tapped. The ref asked Shamrock if he tapped and Shamrock was honorable enough to admit that he had. Shamrock could have acted like he didn't tap and the fight would have kept going. And then beyond that, Royce was pissed because Gordeau had bit him earlier in the fight. So when he secured the choke, he held on a bit longer to really make sure that the borderline senile ref actually saw it and to punish Gordeau a bit for biting him.

 

[Kforcer]

I think you began to see my point at the end. When Hess and Gordeau did eye-raking and gouging, it was considered a foul but not an automatic DQ. (I think I'm right about Gordeau. He fought Nakai in a Vale Tudo event in Japan with minimal rules). The sport was literally called No Holds Barred (not MMA) at the time and "No Rules" was the marketing pitch. You can't look at eye gouging like you would in 2022. I'll grant it's a bit different as there's no foul/fine for what the 16-year old did. But Hess won his fight and was supposed to go to the next round (which he chose not to do). So you could legally win fights with such techniques back then, just as you can forcefully and quickly tear up someone's knee now and win.

Vale Tudo Japan definitely had rules and while it did feature ground and pound, it still was trying to market itself as a sport, just like the Shooto events from whence it sprang. It featured ground and pound to the face, unlike contemporary Shooto events, but it still tried to convey the image of a sport with rules, as evidenced by the gloved competitors--three years before the UFC followed suit--among other things

 

[deadshot138]

 

[mkt]

I bet people will refuse to compete with this person in the future.

I wouldn't consider it unless (1) I was around the same weight but with a lot more muscle than he has (2) I was confident in my grappling ability, submission defense and ability to manhandle fatty boy. But even if I were really talented, I wouldn't want a 30-40 pound weight disadvantage. He's obviously trained specifically for heel hooks using his weight as an advantage, just like Ronda Rousey trained specifically for her judo throw/arm bar combo using her clear grappling advantage over early MMA women.

 

[mattemate]

I have a theory:
Pat Shagholi is actually Gabi Garcia.

 

[deadshot138]

I have a theory:
Pat Shagholi is actually Gabi Garcia.

I thought he was Fat Nick

 

[deadshot138]

Eddie Bravo needs to have a talk with this dude

 

[Pierced7681]

I suppose it's possible. It's not well documented. The documents, if they even exist at this point, wouldn't be in English. But there is documentation that the early UFC, Vale Tudo Japan and Brazilian Vale Tudo events didn't allow biting, eye gouging and fish-hooking. And with good reason.

Just quickly looking at Igor’s fight record he lost in the final of a nhb tourney by a submission labelled as “chin to the eye” so I’m assuming those were at least legal. Scary shit lol

 

[Pierced7681]

Vale Tudo Japan definitely had rules and while it did feature ground and pound, it still was trying to market itself as a sport, just like the Shooto events from whence it sprang. It featured ground and pound to the face, unlike contemporary Shooto events, but it still tried to convey the image of a sport with rules, as evidenced by the gloved competitors--three years before the UFC followed suit--among other things

to be fair ufc 1 allowed gloves, either 6-8 ounce boxing or jkd/Kempo gloves. Jimmerson was the only person who used a glove though.

 

[mattemate]

I thought he was Fat Nick

Jeez, talk about losing the genetic lottery.

 

[Kforcer]

to be fair ufc 1 allowed gloves, either 6-8 ounce boxing or jkd/Kempo gloves. Jimmerson was the only person who used a glove though.

They allowed them, but Sayama required them. I think there's a difference there.

 

[cheachea]

Paul Harris should be his next opponent.

 

[Pierced7681]

They allowed them, but Sayama required them. I think there's a difference there.

yea that’s fair, good point.