BJJ Practitioners do you have a problem with how this ended?

TheWobbler said:




Comments seem mixed in the comment sections. Did the kid have to destroy his leg like that?
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Edit -- upon further review, there really wasn't much of an opportunity for the opponent to tap. Still though, don't hate the player, hate the game. That was a legitamite technique with a very unfortunate result.

Probably should be posted in the grappling sub-forum, but honestly no I don't have a problem with this. Leg locks are nasty as fuck, but you need to know to tap early and often; maybe not super early when the stakes are super high, but it appears the opponent waited a touch too long to tap. I don't think it was held super long after the tap. Heel hooks are not like arm bars or chokes where there is a lot of give before any injury happens. By the time you feel any pain from a heel hook, you are already fucked. For this reason, it's very difficult to monitor them, unfortunately, and is a reason why they are typically banned in beginner and intermediate levels of competition.
 
Did he have to? No. That said, it's Jiu Jitsu not badminton, if you catch a sub and give someone even a brief moment to tap they can and often will use it as an opportunity to escape. In rolling you realize this all the time, sometimes the window between catching certain submissions and missing them is fractions of a second. I don't blame the kid, he let go of the heel hook immediately after getting the win.
 
Heel hooks are notorious for causing damage, as most of the time you literally only have a split second to tap before it’s too late. This is why I generally give Palhares a pass for all the people he injured with heel hooks.

As for this kid, it’s a grappling match not a fight, he could’ve eased into it but chose not to. A win is a win I guess.
 
HuskySamoan said:
Did he have to? No. That said, it's Jiu Jitsu not badminton, if you catch a sub and give someone even a brief moment to tap they can and often will use it as an opportunity to escape. In rolling you realize this all the time, sometimes the window between catching certain submissions and missing them is fractions of a second. I don't blame the kid, he let go of the heel hook immediately after getting the win.
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Very well put -- it really is a tough situation to gauge and happens fairly regularly, sadly. The only safety net really is to protect yourself at all times if you're the one being tapped. Some foresight of what was about to occur may have helped, but hindsight is 20/20 -- that just as easily may have happened to me, especially if $50K was on the line. The smallest fraction of reluctance in grappling can be the difference between winning and losing, as you described.
 
Pierced7681 said:
Heel hooks are notorious for causing damage, as most of the time you literally only have a split second to tap before it’s too late. This is why I generally give Palhares a pass for all the people he injured with heel hooks.

As for this kid, it’s a grappling match not a fight, he could’ve eased into it but chose not to. A win is a win I guess.
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tbf if 50 grand is on the line for a young kid in BJJ then that's incentive enough to make sure you get the sub imo.
 
Well...

At least there's no controversial sub that's being held for too long
 
Pierced7681 said:
Heel hooks are notorious for causing damage, as most of the time you literally only have a split second to tap before it’s too late. This is why I generally give Palhares a pass for all the people he injured with heel hooks.

As for this kid, it’s a grappling match not a fight, he could’ve eased into it but chose not to. A win is a win I guess.
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I thought people had a problem with Palhares because he refused to let go even after the tap
 
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Pierced7681 said:
Heel hooks are notorious for causing damage, as most of the time you literally only have a split second to tap before it’s too late. This is why I generally give Palhares a pass for all the people he injured with heel hooks.

As for this kid, it’s a grappling match not a fight, he could’ve eased into it but chose not to. A win is a win I guess.
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Every single time I've ever competed in a grappling match, I see it as a fight. If I'm behind on points and catch a Kimura in a tournament, the arm is coming with me...and man I got a Bronze in the last Gi tournament I did because the dude tapped from my head and arm choke so I let go, then he kept grappling because the ref didn't see it. Ive had my arms fucked up for weeks, even a couple months from armbars and kimuras where I wasnt given an opportunity to tap, fingers dislocated and jarred badly during scrambles from I don't even know what. I've broken dudes ribs taking them down, I've had popped ribs and torn cartilage myself.

I don't know man...if Im up on points or have complete control, sure maybe I'll show some mercy and go slow, give them a chance to tap. But when I enter a tournament I realize what's at stake, usually there's no injuries but it's definitely part of the game. Wrestlers and Judokas get fucked up real bad all the time too, in a Greco tournament if you can launch them from back bodylock you aren't thinking "well I don't want to hurt him", you're putting that man in the ground.
 
Brown belt here, don’t have too much a problem with it as it’s a tourney. You got to realize there’s potential for injury.

That being said it was pretty damn quickly yanked on and probably unnecessary. But again, it’s a match where we’re trying to choke people unconscious or break bones.

As a side note inside heel hooks like this are the only subs that really make me cringe when they’re tight. You non-grapplers have no idea the kind of damage you can do to someone’s leg like this. Surgery + problems walking for like 6 months if it’s bad.
 
He fell back and let go almost immediately. And he's a big boy. His opponent just caught a bad break.
 
HuskySamoan said:
Every single time I've ever competed in a grappling match, I see it as a fight. If I'm behind on points and catch a Kimura in a tournament, the arm is coming with me...and man I got a Bronze in the last Gi tournament I did because the dude tapped from my head and arm choke so I let go, then he kept grappling because the ref didn't see it. Ive had my arms fucked up for weeks, even a couple months from armbars and kimuras where I wasnt given an opportunity to tap, fingers dislocated and jarred badly during scrambles from I don't even know what. I've broken dudes ribs taking them down, I've had popped ribs and torn cartilage myself.

I don't know man...if Im up on points or have complete control, sure maybe I'll show some mercy and go slow, give them a chance to tap. But when I enter a tournament I realize what's at stake, usually there's no injuries but it's definitely part of the game. Wrestlers and Judokas get fucked up real bad all the time too, in a Greco tournament if you can launch them from back bodylock you aren't thinking "well I don't want to hurt him", you're putting than man in the ground.
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Yeah man 100% agreed. Rolling in the gym, it's all chill and there's no reason for anyone to get injured. But in competition? Yeah don't show up if you're not willing to take a limb or lose a limb. I've had an elbow and knee hyperextended and I don't even remember how many times I grayed or blacked out from a choke. I don't recall ever popping another guy's joint, but I did win by knockout once when a guy tried to fight against a drop seoi nage and he faceplanted into the mat. Once we established he was fine it was pretty funny.

And your opponent with the fake tap is a shit bag. There's supposed to be sportsmanship in sports.
 
mb23100 said:
I thought people had a problem with Palhares because he refused to let go even after the tap
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Yes that is the reason. It wasn't for the subs, it's for him always holding on after the the tap. Guy seemed legit crazy. He always had a lost look on his face after holding on to the submissions and the ref literally having to pull him off over and over again like he didn't understand what he was doing wrong. There was some where he would make extra facial expressions while the ref was trying to pull him off. Dude isn't right in the head.
 
Hate to see it, but the guy knew what he was getting into. Rolling in the gym and competing are 2 different animals, if you aren't willing to risk injury then you shouldn't compete, or at least not at a high level. Nogi grappling is definitely more high paced and leg lock focused, and if the event is big enough to be on UFC Fightpass then you can reasonably assume the skill level is higher than at a small, local tournament. I'm an older purple belt so I stick to the Masters gi matches and only compete a few times a year at smaller tournaments. I'm not trying to get permanently injured doing something that is just a hobby/exercise.
 
The inside heel-hook is NO JOKE

But hey, you gonna go 50/50 with a guy in an Eddie tourney you better expect leg reaps to come at you hard
 
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