Batman vs. Daredevil - Who wins?

[Mike]

Now what happens is we debate the dumbest aspect of all of this:

The inconsistency due to writing. You've clearly said Daredevil gets hit by non-super humans, but you just say "oh it's because it's necessary for the story".

That is the same reason he's able to deflect or dodge bullets from close range. It's necessary for the story.

It's a silly argument that doesn't answer any of my questions about HOW Daredevil would win.

Yeah if you're going to pretend you don't get that point, then it's pointless to continue. Superman, spider-man, the flash, quicksilver etc. have very even fights all the time with people with no superspeed.


Why, when in a life and death fight, would they just choose to stop using their speed and get hit by guys that shouldn't be able to keep up with them? Because otherwise the only fights you could ever have them in would be with other speedsters.


Super speed is a pretty op power, the only way to write around it without having them stomp everyone they fight is to have them conveniently forget to use it.

 

[BEER]

I never said batman isn't a strategist, that point was to counter people unfamiliar with Matt acting as if he's some standard brawler. When in fact he's a high level fighter and strategist, and wins against ridiculous odds the same way batman does, smarts and will to win.


As to how he wins, he wins the same way people like Deathstroke have beaten him. By being a relatively equal fighter, but much faster and with the strength to hit him hard enough to put him down.


When he runs into Deathstroke he often doesn't pull some magical way to win out of his ass. Often, he gets his ass kicked. Because Deathstroke is on hig level in fighting ability, but has enhanced speed and reflexes just like Matt.

Batman is no regular human, but he is a human. Daredevil actually has superhuman abilities and is on the same tier of fighting ability.

This would be all fine and good if DD didn't have a defining weakness that Batman has the ability to exploit from the get-go. Batman has a long history of sonic devices. I'm not talking about an MMA match between Bruce Wayne and Matt Murdoch. I'm talking about a full out super-hero fight. Batman's long history of sonic devices is right up there with DD's long history of enhances abilities.

So, if Batman is able to push a button which would, by all means, deafen DD, how does DD win that fight?

Batman can straight up combo that shit. Hit him with a sonic device and then call bats into action (which is an odd, but canon thing), so even if DD was able to fight through the initial sonic device, he'd be overwhelmed with the sound and physical impact of bats swarming him.

Batman throws him out a window. Game over.

DD's best case scenario is to find a way to hit Batman as hard as possible right out of the gate, but Batman's no slouch defensively. So, even with enhanced powers (of which would be on the low end of things Batman has fought off/defended before), there's no guarantee or even real potential for DD to win this one quickly. And if he can't win quickly, he probably can't win at all.

 

[Mike]

This would be all fine and good if DD didn't have a defining weakness that Batman has the ability to exploit from the get-go. Batman has a long history of sonic devices. I'm not talking about an MMA match between Bruce Wayne and Matt Murdoch. I'm talking about a full out super-hero fight. Batman's long history of sonic devices is right up there with DD's long history of enhances abilities.

So, if Batman is able to push a button which would, by all means, deafen DD, how does DD win that fight?

Batman can straight up combo that shit. Hit him with a sonic device and then call bats into action (which is an odd, but canon thing), so even if DD was able to fight through the initial sonic device, he'd be overwhelmed with the sound and physical impact of bats swarming him.

Batman throws him out a window. Game over.

DD's best case scenario is to find a way to hit Batman as hard as possible right out of the gate, but Batman's no slouch defensively. So, even with enhanced powers (of which would be on the low end of things Batman has fought off/defended before), there's no guarantee or even real potential for DD to win this one quickly. And if he can't win quickly, he probably can't win at all.

Because he would have to immediately know to do that before getting his ass kicked, which besides "I'm Batman!", he wouldn't.


And when he fights enhanced humans with Daredevils level of fighting ability, and they don't fight down to his level for the sake of the story, he gets his ass kicked.

 

[BEER]

Because he would have to immediately know to do that before getting his ass kicked, which besides "I'm Batman!", he wouldn't.


And when he fights enhanced humans with Daredevils level of fighting ability, and they don't fight down to his level for the sake of the story, he gets his ass kicked.

I mean, this will just go in circles, and I'm willing to let it go after repeating a point that you have failed to address:

Batman would able to figure out the weakness very quickly. I don't mean "a couple of minutes of hand to hand combat". I mean, a couple of seconds, at most. It's one of his defining combat traits.

So, in the hypothetical situation that your wet-dream of DD one-punching Batman right off the bat doesn't happen, and Batman figures out the weakness in the time it takes for DD to mount an offense, how does DD win at that point?

Because you've failed to answer that. And you will continue to fail to answer that, because in your mind, DD wins immediately.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Lol at Batman being, "human". His canon stats include a 1,000lb raw Bench at a body weight of 210. No human could do that, even if they dedicated themselves to nothing but Powerlifting. Batman does it while also mastering 127 different styles of martial arts, escapology, offensive and defensive driving, forensic science, engineering, computer science, criminal investigation techniques - World's Greatest Detective, remember? - and just about every other skill-set one can imagine.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Because he would have to immediately know to do that before getting his ass kicked, which besides "I'm Batman!", he wouldn't.


And when he fights enhanced humans with Daredevils level of fighting ability, and they don't fight down to his level for the sake of the story, he gets his ass kicked.

How is DD going to kick Batman's ass when the Dark Knight is bigger, stronger and if anything even more skilled in the martial arts than Daredevil himself?

 

[Mike]

How is DD going to kick Batman's ass when the Dark Knight is bigger, stronger and if anything even more skilled in the martial arts than Daredevil himself?

He's not stronger, and for like the millionth time, Daredevil is way, way faster.

 

[Mike]

I mean, this will just go in circles, and I'm willing to let it go after repeating a point that you have failed to address:

Batman would able to figure out the weakness very quickly. I don't mean "a couple of minutes of hand to hand combat". I mean, a couple of seconds, at most. It's one of his defining combat traits.

So, in the hypothetical situation that your wet-dream of DD one-punching Batman right off the bat doesn't happen, and Batman figures out the weakness in the time it takes for DD to mount an offense, how does DD win at that point?

Because you've failed to answer that. And you will continue to fail to answer that, because in your mind, DD wins immediately.

I never said he would one punch him, he doesn't have super strength. He WOULD be able to overwhelm him relatively quickly though. As for him instantly finding out all of Daredevils weaknesses, I highly doubt it.


Daredevil is an aggressive fighter, highly skilled, and much faster. He wouldn't give Batman time to analyze him and come up with a game plan. Bruce also wouldn't be able to just slip away and buy time to set a trap, as DD could track him very easily.

 

[gatchaman]

Lol at Batman being, "human". His canon stats include a 1,000lb raw Bench at a body weight of 210. No human could do that, even if they dedicated themselves to nothing but Powerlifting. Batman does it while also mastering 127 different styles of martial arts, escapology, offensive and defensive driving, forensic science, engineering, computer science, criminal investigation techniques - World's Greatest Detective, remember? - and just about every other skill-set one can imagine.

Batman consistently loses to bullet timers, such as Shiva. His strength does not help him against her any more than it would help against DD.

And DD is probably stronger than Batman. Using a bar with plates that weigh 400 pounds, "like it was 50", as a weapon, is also something no human could do.

 

[Zer]

Lol at Batman being, "human". His canon stats include a 1,000lb raw Bench at a body weight of 210. No human could do that, even if they dedicated themselves to nothing but Powerlifting. Batman does it while also mastering 127 different styles of martial arts, escapology, offensive and defensive driving, forensic science, engineering, computer science, criminal investigation techniques - World's Greatest Detective, remember? - and just about every other skill-set one can imagine.

Come on bro, that can't be true. This is probably just some shit he put on his Tinder profile

 

[KnightTemplar]

He's not stronger, and for like the millionth time, Daredevil is way, way faster.

According to official stats he is.

As for faster, Batman consistantly fights and beats criminals armed with firearms. He's been shown dodging bullets at close range. DD is not significantly faster.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Batman consistently loses to bullet timers, such as Shiva. His strength does not help him against her any more than it would help against DD.

And DD is probably stronger than Batman. Using a bar with plates that weigh 400 pounds, "like it was 50", as a weapon, is also something no human could do.

Deathstroke possess Enhanced Strength, Speed/Reflexs and Durability. He beat Batman one on one, but was so badly rocked he could barely stagger away after the fight. He admitted that without his Superhuman powers, he would have lost.

I've fought the best. Batman was better.

Shiva is good, but Batman knocked her on her ass and cracked her ribs with a single punch when she was helping him to recover his fighting skills. Shiva also lost to Richard Dragon, who helped train a young Bruce Wayne.

 

[Crawler89]

batrman has a god damn plan to beat every single one of the justice league

you dont think hed fuck up biclops?

come on son.

 

[Mike]

According to official stats he is.

As for faster, Batman consistantly fights and beats criminals armed with firearms. He's been shown dodging bullets at close range. DD is not significantly faster.

Yes he is, and I've posted all kinds of feats and explanations as to why. He doesn't simply dodge aim, like Batman does. He actually dodges bullets in motion and has the speed and precision to bounce them back at people like they're ping pong balls.


Aim dodging and bullet timing are two completely different tiers of speed.


And Daredevil has repeatedly done things like punch guys through brick walls, throw his clubs with enough impact to shatter stone, used a 500lb weight in combat like it's a baton, flip over a limo, etc. He's much stronger than a normal man. And much, much faster than Batman.


As the other poster said when batman fights bullet timers in his own books he typically gts trashed or barely fights to a draw, while taking far more damage than his opponent.


People in this thread have seriously underrated DD's speed because they don't know anything about the character, and don't understand how speed tiers work in comics.


Everybody dodges aim, few characters are bullet timers or faster. They are not the same thing.

 

[Mike]

Deathstroke possess Enhanced Strength, Speed/Reflexs and Durability. He beat Batman one on one, but was so badly rocked he could barely stagger away after the fight. He admitted that without his Superhuman powers, he would have lost.

I've fought the best. Batman was better.

Shiva is good, but Batman knocked her on her ass and cracked her ribs with a single punch when she was helping him to recover his fighting skills. Shiva also lost to Richard Dragon, who helped train a young Bruce Wayne.

Deathstroke has also beaten batman in pretty one sided fights as well. Shiva has beaten Dragon, Cassie Cain, David Cain, Connor, and is generally regarded as one of the top martial artists in dc. Most of the other top fighters are deathly afraid of her.


Batman has fought her to a stalemate, but has also gotten his ass kicked by her and needed Robins help to put her down. Batman himself has acknowledged multiple times that Shiva is better than he is, he's gone to her for training for a reason. Also throughout the training arc she specifically mentioned she was going easy on him so she wouldn't kill him.

 

[Mike]

batrman has a god damn plan to beat every single one of the justice league

you dont think hed fuck up biclops?

come on son.

His plans involve ambushes and sophisticated traps with months, sometimes years of planning. Because he knows in a straight up fight most of the Justice League trashes him. GL, Superman, Flash, and Wonder Woman specifically.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Yes he is, and I've posted all kinds of feats and explanations as to why. He doesn't simply dodge aim, like Batman does. He actually dodges bullets in motion and has the speed and precision to bounce them back at people like they're ping pong balls.


Aim dodging and bullet timing are two completely different tiers of speed.


And Daredevil has repeatedly done things like punch guys through brick walls, throw his clubs with enough impact to shatter stone, used a 500lb weight in combat like it's a baton, flip over a limo, etc. He's much stronger than a normal man. And much, much faster than Batman.


As the other poster said when batman fights bullet timers in his own books he typically gts trashed or barely fights to a draw, while taking far more damage than his opponent.


People in this thread have seriously underrated DD's speed because they don't know anything about the character, and don't understand how speed tiers work in comics.


Everybody dodges aim, few characters are bullet timers or faster. They are not the same thing.

I'm calling BS on the 500lb weight thing. DD has consistantly been shown to struggle against the Kingpin; he beats him because he's faster, but he can't match the Kingpin's strength head on. And it's cannon that Batman hits harder than DD. He was also able to knock one of Bullseye's throwing stars out of the air with a Batarang, something that astonished Bullseye because he'd never seen anyone do it before - including Daredevil.

Daredevil lost a fight to Frank Castle once because the Punisher double-legged him, sending them both through a wall. Daredevil had to grab the fire escape to stop them both from falling to the street. Frank then twisted his body to dislocate both of DD's shoulders.

Daredevil is good, but he's far from unbeatable.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Deathstroke has also beaten batman in pretty one sided fights as well. Shiva has beaten Dragon, Cassie Cain, David Cain, Connor, and is generally regarded as one of the top martial artists in dc. Most of the other top fighters are deathly afraid of her.


Batman has fought her to a stalemate, but has also gotten his ass kicked by her and needed Robins help to put her down. Batman himself has acknowledged multiple times that Shiva is better than he is, he's gone to her for training for a reason. Also throughout the training arc she specifically mentioned she was going easy on him so she wouldn't kill him.

The only real advantage Shiva has is that she fights to kill, while Batman only fights to win. Batman also besmirched Cain. Dragon held back against Shiva because he loved her; when he went full out, he beat her fairly easily.

 

[Mike]

http://io9.gizmodo.com/15-people-who-have-kicked-batmans-ass-1463069060


This article confirms my points that no, Batman doesn't always win/outsmart everyone. Sometimes he gets his ass kicked.


Also backs up that Shiva has beaten Batman and nightwing simultaneously, and that Batman has admitted she's better ( she should be, she's top 3 h2h fighter in the dc universe)



They also show scans of one of the times Deathstroke whupped his ass pretty handily.

 

[minute bull]

Yeah, but not against Daredevil. Daredevil jobs more than he wins. Especially if pussy on the table. Against pussy, monica Daredevil is Reverse Crying Freeman.