Are liberals really empathetic or do they just want to destroy middle class?

[Ortegoat]

Most people care about the well being of children, even if they are not your own. It's kind of instinctual for most human beings.

Highly doubt that when a ton of kids don’t even have a father figure in their life

 

[kpt018]

No one gives a fuck about lazy people. And to respond to your quote of me. Fuck you and your mother. You don't have a fucking clue. Carry on being a dumbass though by all means.

No need to be hostile. If you can't afford insurance due to low income it's free, so look into it. And you can thank me later.

But if I caught you lying the joke is on you.

And to respond to the first part, you didn't read my post did you?

 

[Ortegoat]

No need to be hostile. If you can't afford insurance due to low income it's free, so look into it. And you can thank me later.

But if I caught you lying the joke is on you.

And to respond to the first part, you didn't read my post did you?

If you make under like 19k it’s free you dumb fuck

 

[kpt018]

If you make under like 19k it’s free you dumb fuck

Are you guys unable to have an adult conversation without being hostile assholes? You'll have a better life if you can listen to an opinion you don't agree with without getting so mad.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Why not? I know a couple who have had every opportunity ever, and continue to always blow it, to say the least. Since they are now milking every government assistance known to man to the utter max, they could care less about doing better since it provides enough for them. Whereas someone like myself has had past difficulty, but made many sacrifices in order to achieve an upper middle class level of success and earn the things I currently enjoy.

How does this justify any of my earnings, contributing to their increased standard of living? If these type of people (which there are many) feel they are too good to work the Burger King jobs as an adult, or too lazy to make the sacrifice needed to achieve higher levels of success, then I feel I am too good to give them anything from which I have worked hard for years to achieve.

so you are against paying any tax? then if you dont want to contribute to the society then dont directly benefit from what the society provides. Dont drive on the roads, dont call the cops or fire service etc. You cant even see how you have benefited from society yet you still complain about paying taxes which will benefit the most vulnerable in society.

its pretty pathetic imo

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

this is why American society is so dysfunctional

It comes from the idea of American individualism or “rugged individualism.”

The idea that you are more important than the whole. Taxes for schools are an example I always use. “Why should I pay taxes for schools, I don’t have kids in school, it’s not my responsibility to pay for others.” It doesn’t matter if it is a net positive for the country. It’s ME over everyone else.

It’s a sickness in America and it’s only getting worse, much much worse. The idea that the individual is More important than the group. It’s a huge problem here in America.

It’s another reason why our health care system sucks. We have a ME ME ME attitude here in America. Selfish and greedy to the core

 

[kpt018]

I did read it. You even called yourself how I would respond, and you were correct.

However, I do not agree with these "factors out of your control" being the normal. Yes, I can lose my job tomorrow morning and not find one for six months and then have a difficult time. Random elements can happen to anyone.

However, I think much more often these "out of control" factors are things that, well, are in control. The "oh no I had a baby I shouldn't have that I can't afford so now my life has stalled" type of factors. These are much more common than "I lost my legs in a car accident so now I am on disability".

I don't ignore that there are situations that people have a hard time. I acknowledge that most people under duress are there due to self infliction and terrible decision making, in which I should not have an accountability for them.

Well, you didn't address things I actually said. Again here, you use an example of something that people can control and ignore what I said about markets driving healthcare costs up. Fine, don't address it, but there's no reason to change my view that your argument is flawed from the start.

If you got your way and we went back to status quo most of the expensive healthcare will become a luxury item for high income earners given enough time. That's not a good system, is it?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Are conservative stupid, or do they get off from a lack of education?

/Dump

They’re stupid. It’s without question. Plain and simple.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

I was talking to Monkey in general, not just only healthcare.

But yes you are correct, eight years ago I could not afford any of it. But guess what? I didn't make excuses about what I cannot do and look for someone to bail me out. I got my **** together, improved my situation massively, in places where others are in the exact same spot that I knew them eight years ago. That is their fault, and they only have themselves to blame.

As for the ending, I don't care about price. If I myself one day cannot afford something, then I would only have myself to blame for not making the decisions needed prior to that. If there is a system that healthcare is perfectly affordable for everyone without removing it massively from my pockets I'm all for it. Until then, I could care less about helping those "in need" when most of those won't even help themselves.

youve been brainwashed mate.... people not having the same success as you isnt a reason for them to be punished. Which is what it sounds like you are saying, they deserve to suffer because they are poor.

 

[BudKing8806]

No need to be hostile. If you can't afford insurance due to low income it's free, so look into it. And you can thank me later.

But if I caught you lying the joke is on you.

And to respond to the first part, you didn't read my post did you?

We could afford a plan, just not the plan she had. The plan we could afford would be useless as the deductible was outrageous. It's not an issue anymore as we both have a state plan now. But just for perspective, the plan she had at the time was just under 200 a month. After ACA, that same plan went to over 400 monthly. When she only made like 30k a year that isn't feasible. So like I said, she went without for over a year. Seems a little counter productive to me. Now when it comes to healthcare costs, I can agree that something should be done. I'm just not sure what.
About the first part of your post, I will go reread it.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

It comes from the idea of American individualism or “rugged individualism.”

The idea that you are more important than the whole. Taxes for schools is an example I always use. “Why should I pay taxes for schools, I don’t have kids in school, it’s not my responsibility to pay for others.” It doesn’t matter if it is a net positive for the country. It’s ME over everyone else.

It’s a sickness in America and it’s only getting worse, much much worse. The idea that the individual is More important than the group. It’s a huge problem here in America.

It’s another reason why our health care system sucks. We have a ME ME ME attitude here in America. Selfish and greedy to the core

Its also the same people pushing for deregulation on everything, which is pretty terrifying

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I notice most reactionary right wingers would rather have no health insurance out of spite than have health insurance where some of their money goes towards other people.

They’d rather cut their nose off to spite their face.

 

[BudKing8806]

youve been brainwashed mate.... people not having the same success as you isnt a reason for them to be punished. Which is what it sounds like you are saying, they deserve to suffer because they are poor.

They don't necessarily need to suffer. They just need to get off their lazy asses and pay their own way, not have handouts given to them. The super poor get Medicaid anyway and get their shit paid for and I'm semi ok with that. Though that is abused heavily as well.

 

[snakedafunky]

I don't ignore that there are situations that people have a hard time. I acknowledge that most people under duress are there due to self infliction and terrible decision making, in which I should not have an accountability for them.

But since we have changed our systems to the socialist policies of Bismarck including health insurance, unemployment insurance, retirement insurance, free education, workers rights etc. We have experienced a never before seen increase in prosperity.
If you look at other places around the world they don't have those systems they are shitholes. The US shows signs of that as well. With far more crimes, less educated and healthy population. While countries with the most ''social policy'' happen to be the best in those areas.

You wouldn't be able to live the lifestyle you have now without those policies.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Its also the same people pushing for deregulation on everything, which is pretty terrifying

The idea that some are still talking about a type of universal health care system like it’s 1992 pre internet explosion is insanity.

The truth is out there, it is no longer some unattainable myth. The examples are all over the 1st world. But here in America it’s ungodly and people still respond as if they haven’t read one piece of literature on this issue.

But hey poor and working class rubes are so dense they really don’t have a clue and stick to helping corporations over actual citizens of the country

 

[KILL KILL]

The issue we have in politics is that we group people too much. We're all guilty of it. The thread title does it. Do Democrats blah blah blah? These political groups are made up of a lot of people. I'm sure some are empathetic while others are doing what they believe will progress their own agenda. Same with Republicans.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

They don't necessarily need to suffer. They just need to get off their lazy asses and pay their own way, not have handouts given to them. The super poor get Medicaid anyway and get their shit paid for and I'm semi ok with that. Though that is abused heavily as well.

but until youve walked a mile in their shoes who are you to judge them? Some people do scrounge, I wont deny there are some that just take with no effort to contribute.... but they are a massive minority. Some just are in a rut and need some assistance, some need mental health treatment, some have drug issues etc. But most want to do well, its just a case of giving them a safety net that doesnt punish them for things that they sometimes cant control(losing a job, health issues etc).

If America claims to be exceptional, it should really take a look at what makes it exceptional... its the same that makes any nation great, its people

 

[Execute]

Are you guys unable to have an adult conversation without being hostile assholes? You'll have a better life if you can listen to an opinion you don't agree with without getting so mad.

He posted a loaded question that clearly shows he's not here for a discussion.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I was talking to Monkey in general, not just only healthcare.

But yes you are correct, eight years ago I could not afford any of it. But guess what? I didn't make excuses about what I cannot do and look for someone to bail me out. I got my **** together, improved my situation massively, in places where others are in the exact same spot that I knew them eight years ago. That is their fault, and they only have themselves to blame.

As for the ending, I don't care about price. If I myself one day cannot afford something, then I would only have myself to blame for not making the decisions needed prior to that. If there is a system that healthcare is perfectly affordable for everyone without removing it massively from my pockets I'm all for it. Until then, I could care less about helping those "in need" when most of those won't even help themselves.

What does “when most of those people won’t even help themselves mean?”

It’s statements like this that let me know that right wing brain washing has worked.

Unemployment is low and Americans are working longer and more jobs than ever before. We out work the Japanese here in America.

This picture you’re painting is just flat out wrong. Problem is you won’t change your mind no matter what. People aren’t sitting around doing nothing but you think they are.

 

[kenetics]

why do poor and rich liberals want the middle class to pay for unaffordable healthcare so that poor families get it for free? So basically middle class goes with out unless they work for a government or university job.

Obama care was basically a tax on the middle class and priced them out of having insurance that covers anything while also having to pay 2k/month with 3k deductible.

I for one do not care about other people’s children. It’s their parents responsibility to look after their own and pay their own fucking way

So if some crazy accident took you out of the workforce... or medical issue.. then what? How old are you?