Are liberals really empathetic or do they just want to destroy middle class?

[kenetics]

What does “when most of those people won’t even help themselves mean?”

It’s statements like this that let me know that right wing brain washing has worked.

Unemployment is low and Americans are working longer and more jobs than ever before. We out work the Japanese here in America.

This picture you’re painting is just flat out wrong. Problem is you won’t change your mind no matter what. People aren’t sitting around doing nothing but you think they are.

This. Forbid TS hits a rough patch in life lol.

 

[Bloodworth]

Liberals dont know when to say no to illegals.
They lead solely with compassion rather then logic.

Obama care gave health insurance to thousands who have never and will never contribute 1 penny or give a thought about their health.

Liberals are also an important tool for the enemy.
Liberals do a lot of the yelling and fighting for the enemy that look to weaken the nation with stupid ideas

Liberals will go down as having no foresight for their actions.

 

[*Z*]

I notice most reactionary right wingers would rather have no health insurance out of spite than have health insurance where some of their money goes towards other people.

They’d rather cut their nose off to spite their face.

That is literally how insurance works though in any situation. You're always paying for someone else's health care.

 

[560ti]

No it didn't. And if you're low enough income (meaning you can't afford healthcare) it's free under the ACA. So you're lying or not smart enough to look into it.

It's not as easy as you make it sound. Plenty of people are making just enough money to where the credits are low but there not exactly making a super high income.

Those who are entry level professional making like $30-45K a year are barely getting any tax credits but are expected to pay 15 to 20% of there net salary to buy what isn't even really insurance (it's at best major medical with super high deductible).

Thats what he means by destroying middle class. Most middle class (especially entry level) can't afford 4 to 5 thousand dollars a year for a high deductible plan, hence most of them opting out if there employer doesn't offer it

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

That is literally how insurance works though in any situation. You're always paying for someone else's health care.

Lol you would think they would get that by now.

 

[kpt018]

Well if you are saying that "healthcare has gone up", I mean that is unarguable right? It has. What I don't support is say, equal healthcare for John and Jane because they haven't worked for five years and have two kids. That makes no sense to me. It rewards ineptitude. This also happens with welfare, getting free money to be nothings in life.

To be more specific, I don't see why better healthcare shouldn't cost more. It should. Crappy garbage healthcare that barely does nothing should be cheap or free, and the better you pay the better the care you get. Is this not how everything is? Why should it be different with healthcare other than empathy? There will always be a class system based on your merits I would think.

Of course better healthcare should go up and we need to acknowledge that funding research that will result in better outcomes in the future is expensive too. But the question is what kind of system to we want here? Do we want one where regular folks can't afford life saving treatments or treatments that allow them to live productive lives? It sounds like your answer is yes, and I think there are a ton of problems with it. If your answer is no, we want an affordable healthcare system then we can talk about trade-offs.

 

[Rational Poster]

What the hell does that even mean? Obamacare is a bill, not a company or a person. Also, Republicans are actively undermining the law at every chance they get.

But unless you explain what you mean by "going bankrupt" I can't address your post directly. Before this gets stupid, the ACA is a deficit reducer and helped to curb healthcare cost growth, so don't @ me with that shit.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Is that really what you got from that? That I don't want to pay taxes?? It is likely that I pay more towards taxes than many here, and would never complain about such a thing. That is far, far, from my point.



I love your posting bro but you're letting me down here. I never said they should be "punished", but I don't think they should be "rewarded" for mediocrity either. If it's considered punishment, most of the times it is self inflicted. In other situations in life, if you fail you're met with failure.

Well if you dont mind paying taxes then what are you arguing about? could you afford to pay more and still live comfortably? if so then why would it be an issue if it directly benefited the nation as a whole?

you kind of are if you think because they arent as succesful its their own fault they cant afford healthcare. Also its not rewarding them, its giving them access to medical care. when every other western nation provides healthcare for all citizens why cant America?

why should people suffer for things that are sometimes out of their control?

 

[*Z*]

Lol you would think they would get that by now.

Right?

 

[kpt018]

It's not as easy as you make it sound. Plenty of people are making just enough money to where the credits are low but there not exactly making a super high income.

Those who are entry level professional making like $30-45K a year are barely getting any tax credits but are expected to pay 15 to 20% of there net salary to buy what isn't even really insurance (it's at best major medical with super high deductible).

Thats what he means by destroying middle class. Most middle class (especially entry level) can't afford 4 to 5 thousand dollars a year for a high deductible plan, hence most of them opting out if there employer doesn't offer it

That is not the fault of the ACA but one of the problems it attempted to solve. You guys have this backwards. The ACA curbed cost growth, not increased it.

I agree with you guys if your point is we need a better system that delivers more affordable prices.

Also, I'm not arguing it's simple, it's actually very complex. But our goals don't need to be complex.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

They don't necessarily need to suffer. They just need to get off their lazy asses and pay their own way, not have handouts given to them. The super poor get Medicaid anyway and get their shit paid for and I'm semi ok with that. Though that is abused heavily as well.

you do realise most poor people work full time jobs..... unemployment is low, its just most of the jobs dont pay well.

so wtf are you talking about? most people that recieve benefits are the working poor

edit: man im fucking high, Ive just realised that I responed to you twice lol

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Me having an open discussion while not agreeing with you on said topic, means I am right wing? Hilarious.

Thanks to the others for not categorizing me based on an opinion though.

It’s a common right wing talking point. Stop with the babe in the woods routine, it’s old at this point.

You don’t need to agree WITH ME. You need to simply understand that unemployment is low and americans out work every other first world country on earth.

What do you need explained? Your stupid anecdotal evidence that doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. Talking with people like yourself is exhausting

 

[Ortegoat]

If you make under like 19k it’s free you dumb fuck

So if some crazy accident took you out of the workforce... or medical issue.. then what? How old are you?

That’s all the middle class gets. Crappy catastrophic coverage $500/month 7,000 deductible covers nothing

 

[Ortegoat]

That’s all the middle class gets. Crappy catastrophic coverage $500/month 7,000 deductible covers nothing

Two people is like $900-1,100. With like a 14k deductible. Shit is insane. My wife is working full time and going to school full time. She works full time so I can be on the public education insurance system since they pay her peanuts to take care of children

 

[Judge]

why do poor and rich liberals want the middle class to pay for unaffordable healthcare so that poor families get it for free? So basically middle class goes with out unless they work for a government or university job.

Obama care was basically a tax on the middle class and priced them out of having insurance that covers anything while also having to pay 2k/month with 3k deductible.

I for one do not care about other people’s children. It’s their parents responsibility to look after their own and pay their own fucking way

They have zero fucking compassion. Period.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Two people is like $900-1,100. With like a 14k deductible. Shit is insane. My wife is working full time and going to school full time. She works full time so I can be on the public education insurance system since they pay her peanuts to take care of children

This post lacks so much awareness it’s almost earth shattering.

 

[Ortegoat]

This post lacks so much awareness it’s almost earth shattering.

Could you say something meaningful instead of the typical liberal bs about how you’re so smart? Lol

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

"then why would it be an issue if it directly benefited the nation as a whole?" That actually is part of my issue. I don't agree with it in the sense of healthcare, where many people are allowed to even purposefully not contribute, but receive benefits from it. I'm all for taxes on everything else, but I hate the knowledge of knowing that people have legitimately quit jobs with statements like "why work when uncle Sam will pay me everything I need" from people I have known.

Maybe there's no perfect system that can be had because you end up grouping the lower class together as a whole which is unfair, but I do feel that people in the "lazy" group shouldn't receive a penny in any regards and the ultra bare healthcare possible. Lazy people only facilities, which I guess happens indirectly sometimes. I don't have a perfect solution for this case though.



Yes and no. I don't see a working solution, where some guy has done nothing with his life for 35 years, now he's 55 years old and needs some procedure he can't afford. What IS the solution here that would work for everyone is the question. My contribution to this man's health is the last thing on my desire list. Whereas if a guy who say, has just been doing the best he can at low wage jobs needs help at that age, I am more sympathetic to the situation. I think my biggest issue is that I don't believe the "majority" of people in this situation after 35 years had no chance to improve their situation so it wouldn't end badly.

That it turn makes me have more of a fend for yourself attitude. Realistically speaking though, with our current system I feel it's nearly impossible to truly have affordable healthcare for all involved at this stage, without the middle class getting the worst end of the stick, which creates the division in stances.



Only part of your post I read. You started your original talking point with accusations of my political stance (inaccurate assumption), followed up your next post with it again, then expect me to take you seriously. Or maybe you just wanted to troll me based on what you assumed? Not sure, but I'll stick to the people actually giving good conversation on differing views to the subject. Thanks.

So you’ll continue the babe in tHe woods routine. Gotcha. Carry on

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Could you say something meaningful instead of the typical liberal bs about how you’re so smart? Lol

You’re so dense you can’t figure it out yourself. I’m not surprised you don’t understand anything.

Why should you pay for others when “other people” are literally paying for your health insurance through taxes.

Dude you must have a fucking screw that’s loose.

 

[kpt018]

Yes and no. I don't see a working solution, where some guy has done nothing with his life for 35 years, now he's 55 years old and needs some procedure he can't afford. What IS the solution here that would work for everyone is the question. My contribution to this man's health is the last thing on my desire list. Whereas if a guy who say, has just been doing the best he can at low wage jobs needs help at that age, I am more sympathetic to the situation. I think my biggest issue is that I don't believe the "majority" of people in this situation after 35 years had no chance to improve their situation so it wouldn't end badly.

That it turn makes me have more of a fend for yourself attitude. Realistically speaking though, with our current system I feel it's nearly impossible to truly have affordable healthcare for all involved at this stage, without the middle class getting the worst end of the stick, which creates the division in stances.

Again, I am trying to address a problem that effects people who do work and you continue to refer to people who don't work out of shear laziness. Even if I accepted your point here leaving people without healthcare just cost the system more, unless you're willing to let them die on the street if they can't afford healthcare.

The bottom line is the system does not work with a "fend for yourself" attitude.

Also, we all (or at least most of us) get old, stop working and need really expensive healthcare.