Are Americans falling behind in MMA?

[-guerilla-]

They won't be replaced. Same thing with brazilians and americans.
I just don't think there will be some kind of domination based on nationality, you know? I believe in good training and individual skills.
Dagestanis are good, but are they all Khabib level of good? Not at all.
We now have an african UFC champion. However, we can't ignore the fact that Usman spent most of his life in USA (since he was 8) and had trained 100% in USA.
How many russians (former soviets) nowadays have the same level of skills and dominance as Khabib? Minakov?Valentin Moldavsky? Unlikely.
It's all about good training camps and skilled athletes. And we have this all over the world. And once the fighters become elite, they start looking for training camps in Thailand, Brazil, USA etc.
I predict MMA to become more like kickboxing. In kickboxing, there isn't a country that dominates it. You have champs from Netherlands, Rússia, Japan, Brazil, USA, New Zeland, Morrocos, Turkey... not only from Thailand anymore.

I couldn't agree more when you said it's all about good training not the individual however we differ in the respect of where is the good training to be found....

now in the United States you can get the best training in the world but it's only available to the relatively well-off Americans

of course when a pro fighter shows excellent promise from another Nation they get absorbed into these Top Notch American facilities

Now consider the average trailer park or ghetto kid who has no access whatsoever to high-quality martial arts training in our country

in the old Soviet Bloc countries and Brazil they have excellent opportunities to practice hardcore styles from childhood

That's the difference while American parents won't let their children learn to box for fear of injury kids in Brazil and Russia understand a three-punch combination at around 10 years of age and have numerous opportunities to get involved with Combat Sports as they are respected and revered in those Nations

whereas in America the Combat Sports participation rate has been plummeting in the last 50 years and the cost for high-quality martial arts training has been skyrocketing

 

[-guerilla-]

You never think of those foreigners are elite ?  UFC only wants very good foreigners.


Here in SouthAmerica every interesting Brazilian prospect goes to the UFC, the rest of SouthAmerican fighters cant get many wins in Brazil. Every MMA figther in the world has his eyes put in the UFC, most of them dont have the level. UFC has the best figthers and USA guys are very good and many.. UFC being American promotion has nothing to do with that. I dont remenber an American losing here, i dont know in Brazil

In Tapology web site you can know all the figthers that exist in the world and their record and where r they in the world ranking

The UFC wants very good foreign Fighters that the American Champions can beat


so if you bring me an excellent kickboxer from Brazil I'm going to match him against an excellent american wrestler and the Brazilian is likely to lose.


If you bring me a good submission artist I will use a striker who has good TDD and instruct him to avoid the ground.


These are solid tactics but to avoid the style most likely to beat you almost entirely is simply dodging


The problem with the Russian in Iranian freestyle wrestlers is they don't have a lot of vulnerability...


And when you look at DC's record he has only fought one freestyle wrestler.


Only 1 in his entire MMA career


considering his poor record against freestyle wrestlers I doubt this is accidental.

He's 2/6 vs Soviet bloc wrestlers and has a 100% loss rate to Iranian wrestlers


And there are thousands of them and they all want to compete in the UFC

What you're seeing now is a worldwide ranking system that is respected emerge for the first time in the sports history

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

Current champs

HW - DC - American, trains in America
LHW - Jon Jones - American, trains in America
WW - Usman - Nigerian, lives and trains in America
LW - Khabib - Russian, trains in America
FW - Holloway - American, trains in American
BW - Dillashaw - American, trains in America
FW - Cejudo - American, trains in America

FW/BW - Nunes - Brazilian, lives and trains in America
FlyW - Valentina - Russian, lives and trains in America
SW - Rose - American, trains in America

So only Robert Whitaker is not American and/or does not train in America out of all the UFC champs.

So based on that, I would say no, America is not falling behind in MMA.

 

[Topguntrophey]

 

[-guerilla-]

Current champs

HW - DC - American, trains in America
LHW - Jon Jones - American, trains in America
WW - Usman - Nigerian, lives and trains in America
LW - Khabib - Russian, trains in America
FW - Holloway - American, trains in American
BW - Dillashaw - American, trains in America
FW - Cejudo - American, trains in America

FW/BW - Nunes - Brazilian, lives and trains in America
FlyW - Valentina - Russian, lives and trains in America
SW - Rose - American, trains in America

So only Robert Whitaker is not American and/or does not train in America out of all the UFC champs.

So based on that, I would say no, America is not falling behind in MMA.

Gotcha...so with the MAJORITY of top ranked ATHLETES being non American how long do you think Americans can hold all those belts?

And you don't consider a foreigner that trained in another country before they won the belt and THEN moved to America and American champion do you?

Even though America has the best training facilities in the world they still don't produce the best fighters clearly the majority of UFC's top-ranked athletes are not American

why do you think that is?

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

Even though America has the best training facilities in the world they still don't produce the best fighters clearly the majority of UFC's top-ranked athletes are not American

Actually, that's not true.

Out of 165 top 15 ranked fighters in the UFC (not including champions), 85 are American born (not counting American citizens that were born elsewhere). That's slightly above 50%, so yes, the majority of the UFC's top ranked athletes ARE American.

And again, that's not including champions (most are American) or American citizens who were born elsewhere, like Uzman.

Look at the p4p rankings - Americans hold the top 2 spots, 4 out of the top 5 spots, 9 out of the top 15.

No matter how you dice it, Americans make up a disproportionate amount of UFC champions and top ranked contenders.

If you're not American and you're a champion or in the top 15, it's likely you live and train in America. USA is the undisputed king of MMA.

 

[-guerilla-]

Actually, that's not true.

Out of 165 top 15 ranked fighters in the UFC (not including champions), 85 are American born (not counting American citizens that were born elsewhere). That's slightly above 50%, so yes, the majority of the UFC's top ranked athletes ARE American.

And again, that's not including champions (most are American) or American citizens who were born elsewhere, like Uzman.

Look at the p4p rankings - Americans hold the top 2 spots, 4 out of the top 5 spots, 9 out of the top 15.

No matter how you dice it, Americans make up a disproportionate amount of UFC champions and top ranked contenders.

If you're not American and you're a champion or in the top 15, it's likely you live and train in America. USA is the undisputed king of MMA.

Quote your source....

 

[IGotAHugePeckah]

Quote your source....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship_rankings

It's right there for anyone to read. It even has the flags right by the names to make it easy.

Maybe you should actually look into whether something is true before you pass it off as a fact.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Yeah I did the math before the last two UFC events...

54% of UFC top 15 ranked ATHLETES are not American.

The last 2 UFC events were a total wash for American fighters.

You know, the ones where Americans lost all but one of their international matches AND the welterweight championship.

You guys need to apply a little more critical thinking to this problem.

Think about any major sports league: English, Spanish, German and Italian football/soccer leagues, NBA, NFL, MLB in the United States, NHL in the U.S. and Canada, Japanese baseball, etc.

What do you see in all of them? (1) The best athletes in that sport from around the world; and (2) a lot of filler from the local population.

It’s perfectly normal that fighters from the United States (which is home to approximately 5% of the world’s population FYI) would both (a) occupy an oversized portion of the total population of the UFC; and (b) occupy a relatively smaller portion of the elite population of the UFC.

Why? Because the very best athletes from foreign lands will eventually find their way to the preeminent sports organizations in the world—but the merely good athletes from those places will not.

The most recent UFC event was held in Wichita, Kansas. Of the 14 fighters on the preliminary card, two were not from the United States. 11 earned reported salaries of between $3,500 and $5,000, while the other three earned $10,000. The economics aren’t great if you have to fly to Wichita from Budapest or Nairobi to pocket $5,000. So until you’re good enough to earn a contract that warrants a full-time move to the U.S. to live and train, you probably won’t be appearing on too many U.S.-based cards—also known as most cards period.

Instead, non-U.S. fighters often remain in their home country, or at least on their home continent, competing on the local circuit until their abilities make the economics work.

Expecting anything from the non-U.S. population at the UFC level other than having a lower overall participation rate but a higher relative success rate would be absurd.

 

[Judoka1532]

the UFC is the biggest tournament and the biggest prize and it is an American promotion that occurs primarily in America yet Americans don't even have a 50% participation rate at the top 15 ranked ATHLETES.

That's really an amazing commentary on Americans proficiency in combat sports like grappling and kickboxing

let's look at this another way...
considering the statistics if you had 100 18 year old males randomly selected from the American population and 100 18 year old males randomly selected from the russian/Brazilian population who do you think would win in an MMA contest one on one?

Please keep in mind Americans get CRUSHED in Olympic combat sports (judo wrestling, tae kwon do, boxing and fencing) year after year after

Ok let's look at it another way (women's division included).

Russia: 29 fighters
They make up 5% of all fighters, and 4.5 % of ranked top 16 of all divisions

Brazil: 90 fighters,
They make up 15.4% of all fighters, and 18.7% of top 16 of all divisions

USA: 583 fighters,
They make up 47.68 % of all fighters, and 50.5% of top 16 of all divisions

 

[-guerilla-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Fighting_Championship_rankings

It's right there for anyone to read. It even has the flags right by the names to make it easy.

Maybe you should actually look into whether something is true before you pass it off as a fact.

My sample is bigger than yours!
Maybee you should read the thread b4 you start counting.

In heavyweight:
19 out of 25 men on this list are not americans....thats 76%!!!

In light heavyweight:
18 of 25 are not Americans... 72%!!!

For middleweight:
its 12/25...plus the champion is not American....thats only 48%.

For welterweight:
13/25 are not American...thats 52%!!!

Lightweight:
12/25 plus champ are not American...48%

Featherweight:
10/25 not American...40%

Bantamweight
12/25 not American...48%

Flyweight:
10/22 not American....45%


That total is 106 out of 197 of the UFC top ranked ATHLETES are not American...thats 54%

America's biggest mma tournament has predominantly foreign athletes participating!

Americans are falling behind in MMA!

And all this data was compiled before the last 2 UFC events where Americans lost all but one international match AND a welterweight championship

http://rankingmma.com/ufc-rankings/heavyweight/

 

[ineverpost]

MMA will always be a niche D level sport.

Being on after non olympic curling would be an ideal end game I think

 

[noc]

The UFC wants very good foreign Fighters that the American Champions can beat


so if you bring me an excellent kickboxer from Brazil I'm going to match him against an excellent american wrestler and the Brazilian is likely to lose.


If you bring me a good submission artist I will use a striker who has good TDD and instruct him to avoid the ground.


These are solid tactics but to avoid the style most likely to beat you almost entirely is simply dodging


The problem with the Russian in Iranian freestyle wrestlers is they don't have a lot of vulnerability...


And when you look at DC's record he has only fought one freestyle wrestler.


Only 1 in his entire MMA career


considering his poor record against freestyle wrestlers I doubt this is accidental.

He's 2/6 vs Soviet bloc wrestlers and has a 100% loss rate to Iranian wrestlers


And there are thousands of them and they all want to compete in the UFC

What you're seeing now is a worldwide ranking system that is respected emerge for the first time in the sports history

This is MMA not Wrestling
Give us some names

 

[-guerilla-]

This is MMA not Wrestling
Give us some names

Dmitriy Sosnovskiy
Magomed Malikov
Ivan shtyrkov
Denis goltsov
Vitaly Minakov
Evgeny Erokhin
Aleksander Emelianenko
Fedor Emelianenko
Mikhail Mokhnatkin
Anton Vyazigin
Nikolay Savilov
Evgeny Goncharov
Zelimkhan Umiev
Alikhan Vakhaev
Alexander Gladkov
Amirkhan Guliev
Zaur Gadzhibabayev
Alexander Stolyarov
Muzaffar Radzhabov
Ante Delija

 

[noc]

Dmitriy Sosnovskiy
Magomed Malikov
Ivan shtyrkov
Denis goltsov
Vitaly Minakov
Evgeny Erokhin
Aleksander Emelianenko
Fedor Emelianenko
Mikhail Mokhnatkin
Anton Vyazigin
Nikolay Savilov
Evgeny Goncharov
Zelimkhan Umiev
Alikhan Vakhaev
Alexander Gladkov
Amirkhan Guliev
Zaur Gadzhibabayev
Alexander Stolyarov
Muzaffar Radzhabov
Ante Delija

The first guy is in UFC, the second one seems like is retired, the third couldn defeat somebody with many loses, one against Fedor's brother
lol Fedor and his brother in this list?
And the rest.. seems like nobody is undefeated

 

[papitodd]

There was a million mma gyms when Chuck was knocking people out. They all went out of business and mma quickly faded out of pop culture in the US. There’s very few people who are even casual fans now, and nobody even knows who the champs are.

Shit blew up around the time the UFC and Pride merged. There was as much star power per event as there is in the entire UFC currently. All the stars aligned, but it isn’t sustainable. There is never more than a small handful of boxers known to the public, domestically at least, and I suspect MMA will follow suit.

 

[papitodd]

Every "decade" or generation seems to have a favorite martial art that captures the (American) public consciousness. In the 60s and early 70s it was Kung-Fu and you had the Bruce Lee's and Chuck Noris's, then in the 80s it was Karate -- that was all people were taking when I was a kid -- and you had movies like Karate Kid, then in 90's and 00's seems like TaeKwonDo was most popular -- I think because there was a rise in appreciation for Korean warrior culture plus it was properly organized as a sport (e.g. in Olympics). Then in with the rise of MMA the novelty seemed to focus on BJJ and honestly it was hyped as a big part of what made MMA different than other martial arts sports (we'd all been seeing punches and such for decades but now there were all these "weird" full-body submissions and such).

So yes BJJ is really the sport flavor of martial arts for the current generation.

The key though is that the majority of parents put kids into SPORTS. The well-organized ones like TaeKwonDo and BJJ are going to be strong candidates. It is also important that the sport be seen as lacking corruption and also not simply being a freak-show entertainment.

If you're talking to other parents and they say "my daughter is taking TaeKwonDo" no one even blinks. If you say "my daughter is taking boxing" you'll immediately get a lecture on CTE, and if you say "my daughter is taking MMA" they'll generally think you're a bad parent.

Not saying it is right, but just explaining the general societal view that I've witnessed.

I think MMA changes your point because now those interested in fighting know what he highest level looks like. MMA is effective and proven so, so I don’t see other arts leapfrogging it in popularity.

 

[blaccbeard]

 

[-guerilla-]

The first guy is in UFC, the second one seems like is retired, the third couldn defeat somebody with many loses, one against Fedor's brother
lol Fedor and his brother in this list?
And the rest.. seems like nobody is undefeated

Point is ANY of these men are more qualified to fight DC than broc lesnar will ever be and look what the UFC is pushing?

Once again they don't want competitive foreigners and they try their best to build American champions.

DC isint ducking or dodging he's just part of the sports entertainment industry the UFC has CREATED.

That's why boxing has struggled so many years to put up the best fighters...

...promoters/promotions own fighters under contract and have all the incentive in the world to make the most money not give the best fighters a shot at the title.

Just remeber...DC is the best P4P in the UFC ...
Not MMA

 

[iwillbebackin3weeks]

Point is ANY of these men are more qualified to fight DC than broc lesnar will ever be and look what the UFC is pushing?

Once again they don't want competitive foreigners and they try their best to build American champions.

DC isint ducking or dodging he's just part of the sports entertainment industry the UFC has CREATED.

That's why boxing has struggled so many years to put up the best fighters...

...promoters/promotions own fighters under contract and have all the incentive in the world to make the most money not give the best fighters a shot at the title.

Just remeber...DC is the best P4P in the UFC ...
Not MMA

40 y/o Brock Lesnar stomps any guy not named DC & Stipe.

Brock Lesnar is the greatest part time fighter of all time.