America's Top Killing Machine

[Lee978]

Cars have a purpose besides killing and are absolutely essential to the economy. Never understood this counterargument at all.

Killing in this context sounds so vague. What if people are killed in self-defense or defense in general? Doesn't that show guns also serve a purpose aside from killing; namely protection?

Also homicides by guns have been on the decline for 20 years according to that article. The way you make it sound, all gun deaths are homicides.

 

[DirkDiggles]

So remove the half for suicides and the graph stays the same. Guns are still far more likely to be used in murder/ assaults/ accidental then for defense.

By the way- im pro most gun rights.

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

So remove the half for suicides and the graph stays the same. Guns are still far more likely to be used in murder/ assaults/ accidental then for defense.

By the way- im pro most gun rights.

The graph only represents gun deaths, not gun deaths by categorization.

If half are suicides, 25% are self-defense, and 25% are murder, then gun murders are 25% of car deaths. Not too bad in a country of 300 million with big criminal elements in certain populations.

 

[Lord_Impaler]

So remove the half for suicides and the graph stays the same. Guns are still far more likely to be used in murder/ assaults/ accidental then for defense.

By the way- im pro most gun rights.

There is a cost to almost every right, and almost every privilege as well.

Either you think the right/privilege, or the idea it represents, is worth the cost or you don't.

 

[DirkDiggles]

http://www.vpc.org/press/1304self.htm

230 justifiable--- 20,000 homicide, mostly in home domestic, 609 accidental

 

[DirkDiggles]

There is a cost to almost every right, and almost every privilege as well.

Either you think the right/privilege, or the idea it represents, is worth the cost or you don't.

I actually do ---but get concerned when gun owners fail to recognize the realities of bringing guns in to their homes and lives.

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

http://www.vpc.org/press/1304self.htm

230 justifiable--- 20,000 homicide, mostly in home domestic, 609 accidental

In 2010, across the nation there were only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm reported to the FBI. That same year, there were 8,275 criminal gun homicides. Using these numbers, in 2010, for every justifiable homicide in the United States involving a gun, guns were used in 36 criminal homicides. This ratio does not take into account the thousands of lives ended in gun suicides (19,392) or unintentional shootings (606) that year.

Why would the FBI be alerted to a justifiable homicide? Most justifiable homicides are ruled as such on the scene and are not prosecuted. It is only when there is a suspicion that foul play was involved (say, as in the Trayvon Martin case) where these things become criminal actions.

The FBI are the federal police of the US. They are not in general alerted to all local crime statistics.

 

[Lord_Impaler]

I actually do ---but get concerned when gun owners fail to recognize the realities of bringing guns in to their homes and lives.

If you don't realize how dangerous a gun is than you have no business being within 5 miles of one.

I honestly still get nervous when holding a loaded semi auto pistol....especially because mine doesn't have a safety.

There isn't really anyway to test people for carelessness, I'm just talking about accidents here by the way.

 

[DirkDiggles]

In 2010, across the nation there were only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm reported to the FBI. That same year, there were 8,275 criminal gun homicides. Using these numbers, in 2010, for every justifiable homicide in the United States involving a gun, guns were used in 36 criminal homicides. This ratio does not take into account the thousands of lives ended in gun suicides (19,392) or unintentional shootings (606) that year.

Why would the FBI be alerted to a justifiable homicide? Most justifiable homicides are ruled as such on the scene and are not prosecuted. It is only when there is a suspicion that foul play was involved (say, as in the Trayvon Martin case) where these things become criminal actions.

The FBI are the federal police of the US. They are not in general alerted to all local crime statistics.

Interesting point. Not sure of the regs of reporting at all. Id be surprised if there were tens of thousands of unreported though.

 

[DirkDiggles]

If you don't realize how dangerous a gun is than you have no business being within 5 miles of one.

I honestly still get nervous when holding a loaded semi auto pistol....especially because mine doesn't have a safety.

There isn't really anyway to test people for carelessness, I'm just talking about accidents here by the way.

My step father was helping me move some furniture this weekend and his fell out of his holster. it didnt go off but the kids were home and I wanted to dropkick him for being that irresponsible with it.

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

My step father was helping me move some furniture this weekend and his fell out of his holster. it didnt go off but the kids were home and I wanted to dropkick him for being that irresponsible with it.

Why is he carrying a gun on his person in his own house? Do you live in a crack house?

 

[RerouteToRemain]

My step father was helping me move some furniture this weekend and his fell out of his holster. it didnt go off but the kids were home and I wanted to dropkick him for being that irresponsible with it.

Modern pistols don't go off if they are dropped. He definitely needs to look into a new holster, maybe a birthday or fathers day present.

 

[IDL]

If someone turns the car on in their garage to off themselves by the exhaust, does this count as an automobile death?

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

If someone turns the car on in their garage to off themselves by the exhaust, does this count as an automobile death?

Probably not, as I doubt suicide statistics include every method of suicide.

 

[IDL]

Probably not, as I doubt suicide statistics include every method of suicide.

Was just rhetorical. It might affect the 'killing machine' stats

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

Was just rhetorical. It might affect the 'killing machine' stats

At the very least: We can agree the statistics do not tell the whole story. "X amount have die due to guns!" with no breakdown on -how- they died especially considering the fair homogeny of automobile accident deaths. "How did they die?" "They got into a crash and/or were ran over."

 

[spikemma]

What do we say here.

Children pull guns from parents purses, people drive 60 on black ice. Its ashame.

 

[mantronix]

What do we say here.

Children pull guns from parents purses, people drive 60 on black ice. Its ashame.

The moral of the story is that carelessness with just about anything can result in injury or death.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Most people drive like goddamn idiots.

 

[dabausplaya]

Isn't it kind of dishonest to not seperate suicide, justifiable self defense and murders when talking about gun deaths?

You're asking too much