American scolastic folkstyle wrestling = a dying sport

[jack36767]

Poland. I don't do MMA, only BJJ because brain injury is not fun.

The school he coached at was in a state with roughly 70-75 schools with wrestling. Almost none of the coaches wrestled in college or internationally at any age level. Yet he is scared to say what place his school got. He talks about what things he "surprised" people with not about consistent results or how technical or fundamental his teams were.

A single division in a northern state of the US has over a 100 schools or 300 in the case of single division states. With freestyle and greco training accessible to any high school kid who wants to. With places that have high level training that does not put their stuff on YouTube. The average high school will have at least one coach with college experience and freestyle experience. And while every coach has "surprise" or trick holds they don't base their entire identity or system on depending on those holds.

You will notice he will be quick to say that he "coached" 20 years and whatnot. Will immediately ask your wrestling/mma accomplishments as a way to claim superiority.. then when given an answer he gets insecure and defensive and doubles down on his ignorance. Or try to say it is getting off topic when he started that line of questioning.

The US has also been getting more money and steadily improving results internationally. I know that I am a hothead. You know this. I am also honest about what I have done, and what I do and do not know.

Mr. Gavin Guerilla, is a liar and twists the truth and acts like knowing a couple tricks puts him on a coaching/wrestling tier he does not belong in. He is also making giant leaps in logic based on ignorance. He is a slightly more articulate Dan the Wolfman.

 

[njgrappler]

I would disagree. I think companies like FloWrestling are doing a great job of making amateur wrestling exciting again. I just wish they would not put the most anticipated matches behind a paywall.

US wrestling is exciting as hell right now, from the NCAAs to the international scene.

Guys like Burroughs, Snyder, Dake, Cox, Yianni, Zane, Nickal, Taylor, Steveson, Fix, Suriano are absolutely incredible wrestlers and make for a really exciting scene.

 

[jack36767]

Hey Gavin, that what I imagine you look like when talking about "I was at small underfunded school" when your results are questioned.

I love how you don't hold yourself to same standard as you do others

 

[-guerilla-]

Poland. I don't do MMA, only BJJ because brain injury is not fun.

POLAND!!!

you all are some of the greatest wrestlers and powerlifters on earth!!!

thats an awesome AREA for international wrestling!!



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Olympic_wrestlers_of_Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_at_the_Olympics

Rank Nation Gold Silver Bronze Total
1

Soviet Union (URS) 62 31 23 116
2

United States (USA) 54 43 35 132
3

Japan (JPN) 32 20 17 69
4

Russia (RUS) 30 11 15 56
5

Turkey (TUR) 29 18 16 63
6

Sweden (SWE) 28 27 31 86
7

Finland (FIN) 26 28 29 83
8

Hungary (HUN) 19 16 19 54
9

Bulgaria (BUL) 16 32 21 69
10

South Korea (KOR) 11 11 14 36
11

Iran (IRI) 9 14 20 43
12

Cuba (CUB) 9 6 7 22
13

Romania (ROU) 7 8 18 33
14

Italy (ITA) 7 4 10 21
15

Unified Team (EUN) 6 5 5 16
16

Poland (POL) 5 9 12 26

 

[-guerilla-]

I would disagree. I think companies like FloWrestling are doing a great job of making amateur wrestling exciting again. I just wish they would not put the most anticipated matches behind a paywall.

US wrestling is exciting as hell right now, from the NCAAs to the international scene.

Guys like Burroughs, Snyder, Dake, Cox, Yianni, Zane, Nickal, Taylor, Steveson, Fix, Suriano are absolutely incredible wrestlers and make for a really exciting scene.

Flowrestling cashout grab notwithstanding

The fact is we had a micro bump last year but since 2009 folkstyle wrestling has PLUMMETED from
272,890
to
245,564

THATS 27, 326 FEWER WRESTLERS THAN IN 2009!!!!

DESPITE an increase in overall population numbers!!!

USA population
Jul 1, 2009 306.77 million
May 1, 2019 328.81 million

22.04 Million more people SINCE 2009 and wrestling is DOWN 27 THOUSAND ATHLETES SINCE 2009!!!

 

[-guerilla-]

The school he coached at was in a state with roughly 70-75 schools with wrestling. Almost none of the coaches wrestled in college or internationally at any age level. Yet he is scared to say what place his school got. He talks about what things he "surprised" people with not about consistent results or how technical or fundamental his teams were.

A single division in a northern state of the US has over a 100 schools or 300 in the case of single division states. With freestyle and greco training accessible to any high school kid who wants to. With places that have high level training that does not put their stuff on YouTube. The average high school will have at least one coach with college experience and freestyle experience. And while every coach has "surprise" or trick holds they don't base their entire identity or system on depending on those holds.

You will notice he will be quick to say that he "coached" 20 years and whatnot. Will immediately ask your wrestling/mma accomplishments as a way to claim superiority.. then when given an answer he gets insecure and defensive and doubles down on his ignorance. Or try to say it is getting off topic when he started that line of questioning.

The US has also been getting more money and steadily improving results internationally. I know that I am a hothead. You know this. I am also honest about what I have done, and what I do and do not know.

Mr. Gavin Guerilla, is a liar and twists the truth and acts like knowing a couple tricks puts him on a coaching/wrestling tier he does not belong in. He is also making giant leaps in logic based on ignorance. He is a slightly more articulate Dan the Wolfman.

 

[njgrappler]

Flowrestling cashout grab notwithstanding

The fact is we had a micro bump last year but since 2009 folkstyle wrestling has PLUMMETED from
272,890
to
245,564

THATS 27, 326 FEWER WRESTLERS THAN IN 2009!!!!

DESPITE an increase in overall population numbers!!!

USA population
Jul 1, 2009 306.77 million
May 1, 2019 328.81 million

22.04 Million more people SINCE 2009 and wrestling is DOWN 27 THOUSAND ATHLETES SINCE 2009!!!

Where are you getting these statistics from? What were the numbers in 1999/1989?

 

[-guerilla-]

hey at least we can beat Russians and Germans

 

[jack36767]

hey at least we can beat Russians and Germans

Are you going to use anything up to date?

 

[jack36767]

It’s ok. Act like a southerner. Head pat

 

[yetanother]

POLAND!!!

you all are some of the greatest wrestlers and powerlifters on earth!!!

thats an awesome AREA for international wrestling!!

Is that sarcasm?. I know the wrestling and jiu jitsu (anywhere other than USA, Brazil and Japan is horrible at BJJ) sucks.

 

[-guerilla-]

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/high-school/declining-wrestling-participation-concerns-some.html

https://news.theopenmat.com/high-sc...-hs-wrestling-still-losing-participants/64042

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/s...ing-combats-declining-participation/96586388/

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/s...ing-combats-declining-participation/96586388/

 

[-guerilla-]

Where are you getting these statistics from? What were the numbers in 1999/1989?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268028/participation-in-us-high-school-wrestling/

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/high-school/declining-wrestling-participation-concerns-some.html

https://news.theopenmat.com/high-sc...-hs-wrestling-still-losing-participants/64042

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/s...ing-combats-declining-participation/96586388/

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/s...ing-combats-declining-participation/96586388/

 

[-guerilla-]

Is that sarcasm?. I know the wrestling and jiu jitsu (anywhere other than USA, Brazil and Japan is horrible at BJJ) sucks.

no way man...im not dissing a polish guy!!!!

 

[jack36767]

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/high-school/declining-wrestling-participation-concerns-some.html

https://news.theopenmat.com/high-sc...-hs-wrestling-still-losing-participants/64042

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/s...ing-combats-declining-participation/96586388/

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/s...ing-combats-declining-participation/96586388/

You’re doing nothing to help asides from whine on the internet. You only see wrestling as something to help mma anyway. Not an art on its own.

And you suddenly ignoring me when called out on your bullshit is telling.

Again doing nothing to help. Didn’t even get your wrestlers involved in freestyle or going to Fargo. Oh yeah you even quit even helping for a decade.

If the US switched to freestyle what would be your excuse for “best finish” ever instead of what you placed? Small and underfunded again?

 

[jack36767]

Where are you getting these statistics from? What were the numbers in 1999/1989?

The decline in numbers is well known issue that wrestling is taking steps to combat. There was even an increase in numbers lately. He tried to say it’s because of mma. No, it’s because of a massive initiative across the board to get numbers back up. Most new kids as in 19/20 do not join because of mma or even think about it. This one of many reasons I refer to his ignorance.

He also keeps making a massive leap in logic saying switching to freestyle would magically “fix it” and”save” wrestling. I don’t agree. Not out of a blind devotion to folkstyle (which he keeps lying and saying I have), I was actually better at freestyle. I used to think switching would massively help but changed my mind due to, I don’t believe it will fix the issue because

1. Getting it approved as a scholastic sport has a minuscule chance of making past lawyers

2. The real issue behind lack of medals was athletes not being able to train at a world class level and support a family. Since the Olympic scare, USAW has been figuring out ways to get our athletes money. The results are improving shockingly rapidly.

3. A lot of the numbers issues come from the direction of youth sports in general which affects wrestling far more than most other sports.

4. Wrestling hasn’t and still honestly hasn’t done enough to become more diverse and expand out of rural or rich suburban areas.

5. Stubbornness about adopting things like 2- piece


The reason wrestling was almost cut had nothing to do with the reasons he claims. It had to do with FILA not listening to IOC, not adapting, unwatchable rules, and not pushing women’s wrestling hard enough.


He also makes false claims and exaggerates expertise and knowledge he possesses. He also quit the sport for a decade and is “coming back” in from a place of ignorance

 

[yetanother]

1. Getting it approved as a scholastic sport has a minuscule chance of making past lawyers

Isn't that a mostly false argument? Do the lawyers insist on keeping the emphasis on ground work in folkstyle and have to approve every rule change?

 

[-guerilla-]

The decline in numbers is well known issue that wrestling is taking steps to combat. There was even an increase in numbers lately. He tried to say it’s because of mma. No, it’s because of a massive initiative across the board to get numbers back up. Most new kids as in 19/20 do not join because of mma or even think about it. This one of many reasons I refer to his ignorance.

He also keeps making a massive leap in logic saying switching to freestyle would magically “fix it” and”save” wrestling. I don’t agree. Not out of a blind devotion to folkstyle (which he keeps lying and saying I have), I was actually better at freestyle. I used to think switching would massively help but changed my mind due to, I don’t believe it will fix the issue because

1. Getting it approved as a scholastic sport has a minuscule chance of making past lawyers

2. The real issue behind lack of medals was athletes not being able to train at a world class level and support a family. Since the Olympic scare, USAW has been figuring out ways to get our athletes money. The results are improving shockingly rapidly.

3. A lot of the numbers issues come from the direction of youth sports in general which affects wrestling far more than most other sports.

4. Wrestling hasn’t and still honestly hasn’t done enough to become more diverse and expand out of rural or rich suburban areas.

5. Stubbornness about adopting things like 2- piece


The reason wrestling was almost cut had nothing to do with the reasons he claims. It had to do with FILA not listening to IOC, not adapting, unwatchable rules, and not pushing women’s wrestling hard enough.


He also makes false claims and exaggerates expertise and knowledge he possesses. He also quit the sport for a decade and is “coming back” in from a place of ignorance

All I said is that The USA would do better in international wrestling if we actually HAD international style wrestling in the USA public schools system [like the rest of the wrestling world]

this kind of thing is considered "blasphemy" in american wrestling circles because these out of touch coaches dont UNDERSTAND international wrestling and FEAR that the switch would render them as OBSOLETE as their style is

Gerald is lashing out in a cry for help as he is presiding over a dying sport

Its my radical theory that if Americans WON in international wrestling it would be more popular in the USA

IT DOSENT MATTER HOW AWESOME OR POPULAR A SPORT IS....IF AMERICANS DONT WIN IT THEY WONT SUPPORT IT

soccer is the best example of this painful and simple fact

these news reports confirm and prove that commercialism is killing the sport

"Now many prominent wrestling authorities believe that we must shift to freestyle wrestling to be competitive on the international level"

https://wvmat.com/welker/folkdie.htm

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5066784-the-olympics-cut-56...



as a man who has been involved with wrestling as a professional certified coach and athlete since 1990 Its is not something I am happy about....it a SURVIVAL SITUATION!!!

Its life and death

If we dont win in the Olympics Budweiser McDonalds and Coke wont support the sport and it will die out completely

commercial interests control the modern Olympics and they have had their fill of this sport...THEY ARE DETERMINED TO ERADICATE IT AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS MORE ADVERTISING RETURN POTENTIAL [like basketball AND SKATEBOARDING!!!!!!]

https://www.teamusa.org/News/2018/J...s-And-Events-For-The-Olympic-Games-Tokyo-2020

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-...186M6OdJ1X8SlFmvTmIBpyjYfbq1MRaMd0K15cmq_mFMD

 

[jack36767]

Isn't that a mostly false argument? Do the lawyers insist on keeping the emphasis on ground work in folkstyle and have to approve every rule change?

AH I apologize I forgot you aren’t American. It’s not about the ground rules it’s about slams. Again, I do not like this aspect of American culture whatsoever. But between the direction of coddling, the litigious nature and lawsuit craziness, American mom groups and so on.

You are not going to get a sport where a chubby first year kid can get slammed by a nationally ranked high school senior. Think what would happen if “white belt” wrestlers at bjj competitions were allowed to suplex bjj hobbyists

Gavin’s answer has been to say keep some weird ass hybrid of folk and freestyle.. which

1. Why the hell would you do some bastard halfway concoction instead of fully switching if you’re trying to get better results in freestyle
2. Whenever hybrid rule sets are tried (which they have been, multiple times) they always go over badly and are rejected
3. The internal state politics and campaigning would be even harder if you tried to do some half breed concoction

Again I do not like it that American culture is going this way. I also don’t ignore reality

And again despite what he says. If I was just looking at this from the perspective of a high school coach and not a wider view. Changing to freestyle would help me or at least not hurt me as a coach. Half of what I teach crosses over between the two just fine.

 

[jack36767]

All I said is that The USA would do better in international wrestling if we actually HAD international style wrestling in the USA public schools system [like the rest of the wrestling world]

this kind of thing is considered "blasphemy" in american wrestling circles because these out of touch coaches dont UNDERSTAND international wrestling and FEAR that the switch would render them as OBSOLETE as their style is

Gerald is lashing out in a cry for help as he is presiding over a dying sport

Its my radical theory that if Americans WON in international wrestling it would be more popular in the USA

IT DOSENT MATTER HOW AWESOME OR POPULAR A SPORT IS....IF AMERICANS DONT WIN IT THEY WONT SUPPORT IT

soccer is the best example of this painful and simple fact

these news reports confirm and prove that commercialism is killing the sport

"Now many prominent wrestling authorities believe that we must shift to freestyle wrestling to be competitive on the international level"

https://wvmat.com/welker/folkdie.htm

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5066784-the-olympics-cut-56...



as a man who has been involved with wrestling as a professional certified coach and athlete since 1990 Its is not something I am happy about....it a SURVIVAL SITUATION!!!

Its life and death

If we dont win in the Olympics Budweiser McDonalds and Coke wont support the sport and it will die out completely

commercial interests control the modern Olympics and they have had their fill of this sport...THEY ARE DETERMINED TO ERADICATE IT AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS MORE ADVERTISING RETURN POTENTIAL [like basketball AND SKATEBOARDING!!!!!!]

https://www.teamusa.org/News/2018/J...s-And-Events-For-The-Olympic-Games-Tokyo-2020

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-...186M6OdJ1X8SlFmvTmIBpyjYfbq1MRaMd0K15cmq_mFMD

Hey Afrikaner. Please stop deliver misspelling my name. It’s immature and pathetic.

“Scholastic” wrestling as a school sport, doesn’t really exist outside the US.

this kind of thing is considered "blasphemy" in american wrestling circles because these out of touch coaches dont UNDERSTAND international wrestling and FEAR that the switch would render them as OBSOLETE as their style is

For the hundredth time. If you went above the Mason-Dixon Line.. Nearly all the coaches have at a minimum, a basic understanding of Freestyle. You are the ignorant wannabe coach desperate for a way to be “superior”




The soccer point is actually very relevant. Like what has been explained. The best athletes in the US go to basketball or football before soccer or wrestling.

Let me explain something. It might be long so I hope you have your sippy cup and are tough enough to read,

The population of North Ossetia and Dagestan is roughly 4 million. Roughly Equivalent to to Kentucky, Oregon and Oklahoma in population. As well as the country of Croatia.

In Croatia the Best athletes, regardless of whether or not they are ideal for that sport, go into soccer. Not football, not baseball, not basketball. Soccer

In North Ossetia and Dagestan. The best athletes usually almost always.. wrestle.

Both places the top 10% of athletes and prime age population is at least trying those sports

In the same sized states of Kentucky, Oklahoma, and Oregon. The top athletes go for or try out basketball, football and baseball.

In fact it’s actually quite amazing and astonishing the US does as well as it does international wrestling given where Olympic sports are on the hierarchy in the us system.

But please do not let facts get in the way of being a wannabe blowhard who deliberately misspells people’s names like an adolescent