American scolastic folkstyle wrestling = a dying sport

[-guerilla-]

one would think that with all the coverage of wrestlers in MMA more kids would get involved in the sport

sorry to say that the sport seems to be dying a protracted death DESPITE MMA giving the sport a bump

I have been involved with wrestling since 1990 and coaching since the late 90ties

these are some concerning numbers guys, I was not aware of this until recently while doing some research to crush trolls

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268028/participation-in-us-high-school-wrestling/

The fact is we had a micro bump last year but since 2009 folkstyle wrestling has PLUMMETED from
272,890
to
245,564

THATS 27, 326 FEWER WRESTLERS THAN IN 2009!!!!

DESPITE an increase in overall population numbers!!!

USA population
Jul 1, 2009 306.77 million
May 1, 2019 328.81 million

22.04 Million more people SINCE 2009 and wrestling is DOWN 27 THOUSAND ATHLETES SINCE 2009!!!

Its a TERRIBLE notion to think that one day wrestling will no longer be in our american school systems!!!

 

[jack36767]

one would think that with all the coverage of wrestlers in MMA more kids would get involved in the sport

sorry to say that the sport seems to be dying a protracted death DESPITE MMA giving the sport a bump

I have been involved with wrestling since 1990 and coaching since the late 90ties

these are some concerning numbers guys, I was not aware of this until recently while doing some research to crush trolls

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268028/participation-in-us-high-school-wrestling/

The fact is we has a micro bump last year but since 2009 folkstyle wrestling has PLUMMETED from
272,890
to
245,564

THATS 27, 326 FEWER WRESTLERS THAN IN 2009!!!!

DESPITE an increase in overall population numbers!!!

USA population
Jul 1, 2009 306.77 million
May 1, 2019 328.81 million

22.04 Million more people SINCE 2009 and wrestling is DOWN 27 THOUSAND ATHLETES SINCE 2009!!!

Its a TERRIBLE notion to think that one day wrestling will no longer be in our american school systems!!!

You do know this is a trend across all sports and something that way more informed people than you are aware of..

You want wrestling to stay in scholastic but you want to switch to Freestyle.. lol

 

[-guerilla-]

"Wrestling participation declined 44.2 percent in the last ten years. Wrestling also has the highest churn rate, with more than half of the people who said they wrestled in 2009 saying they no longer wrestled in 2010"

https://www.cnbc.com/id/44628826

and not all sports are contracting

http://sportsplanningguide.com/6-nontraditional-trending-sports-for-2019/

https://globalsportmatters.com/yout...wing-sport-in-the-u-s-also-one-of-the-oldest/


I very much want wrestling to stay in the school system

and I think switching to international wrestling would help our athletes win internationally

 

[jack36767]

"Wrestling participation declined 44.2 percent in the last ten years. Wrestling also has the highest churn rate, with more than half of the people who said they wrestled in 2009 saying they no longer wrestled in 2010"

https://www.cnbc.com/id/44628826

and not all sports are contracting

http://sportsplanningguide.com/6-nontraditional-trending-sports-for-2019/

https://globalsportmatters.com/yout...wing-sport-in-the-u-s-also-one-of-the-oldest/


I very much want wrestling to stay in the school system

and I think switching to international wrestling would help our athletes win internationally

I have very clearly explained the reasons for numbers lowering in other threads that have nothing to do with Olympics. Based off actually having been around it during that time unlike a certain someone. As well as the shifts in American culture

I will again state the unfortunate truth. Making Freestyle the main scholastic sport will never make it past the lawyers.. you are not going to get a style.. where a first year freshman can get legally slammed by a senior state or national level wrestler... past the mom groups, lawyers and school boards successfully...

Now before you start squawking..
I agree, America is coddling it’s children too much, yes they let way too many frivolous lawsuits happen, yes they are over concerned with injuries and so on..

It does not change.. reality

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

It s a nice murrcan tradition why change it.

 

[-guerilla-]

I dont expect to see this kind of thing in America

Just get rid of clasping and tweek a few roll thru moves like granbys and we would be way more competitive in International

 

[jack36767]

I dont expect to see this kind of thing in America

Just get rid of clasping and tweek a few roll thru moves like granbys and we would be way more competitive in International

You still haven’t given explanation of how you would get it accepted as a scholastic sport

 

[rmongler]

Granby rolling is endemic in BJJ, MMA, and other forms of submission wrestling.

If anything, it's freestyle that is the asinine odd-man-out for having rules that penalize such effective maneuvers.

 

[-guerilla-]

Granby rolling is endemic in BJJ, MMA, and other forms of submission wrestling.

If anything, it's freestyle that is the asinine odd-man-out for having rules that penalize such effective maneuvers.

Yeah its SUPPOSED to be that you cant be scored on if you roll on your own and not forcibly turned so i would maintain the Granby and allow cutbacks/ snapbacks and all manner of offensive and defensive roll maneuvers plus body triangle and of course ..the BIG ONE ....
CLASPING MUST GO!!!

In highschool i would not allow slams (knee down as ALWAYS) but arch SERIES should be fine

OF COURSE REF CALLS SLAMMING in any circumstance when the mat return is overzealous

No roll thru pins

Thats how I would set the rules but i would expect regular freestyle be logistically all we had to work with

I have always opposed any and all
anti-stallling rule manipulation

Especially body triangle and clasping

I have no fantasy that our kids will be hitting massive backarches

You can keep your precious folkstyle....
If we just got rid of clasping and scored turns we would be 80% more effective internationally!

 

[-guerilla-]

You still haven’t given explanation of how you would get it accepted as a scholastic sport

Im gonna cover that and peace in the middle east in my next thread..

i know youll be there

Nobody is letting you coach a school program are they?

 

[jack36767]

Yeah its SUPPOSED to be that you cant be scored on if you roll on your own and not forcibly turned so i would maintain the Granby and allow cutbacks and all manner of offensive and defensive roll maneuvers plus body triangle and of course ..the BIG ONE ....
CLASPING MUST GO!!!

In highschool i would not allow slams (knee down as ALWAYS) but arch SERIES should be fine

OF COURSE REF CALLS SLAMMING in any circumstance when the mat return is overzealous

No roll thru pins

Thats how I would set the rules but i would expect regular freestyle be logistically all we had to work with

I have always opposed any and all
anti-stallling rule manipulation

Especially body triangle and clasping

I have no fantasy that our kids will be hitting massive backarches

You can keep your precious folkstyle....
If we just got rid of clasping and scored turns we would be 80% more effective internationally!

Eye roll. Pointing out your inconsistencies is like playing wack a mole.

 

[jack36767]

Im gonna cover that and peace in the middle east in my next thread..

i know youll be there

Nobody is letting you coach a school program are they?

Oh I already told you this..
Finished first year as full on head coach at an inner city school in SW Chicago..

1. Best record in school history
2. Best conference finish(lost by a forfeit because my heavyweight was sick and missed, what can you do)
3. Every kid won at least 4 matches even as first year wrestlers. Wrestling a varsity schedule
4. Biggest team ever.
5. Best post season finish ever and had a wrestler in blood round to go to state (oh btw there is more than 100 schools, in each division in Illinois it Ohio.. so it’s harder to get to state than in a state with only 70 schools.. like idk.. Kentucky)
6. Had kids who had never seen a mat before and working hard for the first time train over winter break
7. Every athlete improved and grew as young men not just wrestlers
8. Ran the South Side RTC for Beat the Streets Chicago this spring for freestyle
9. Have averaged 8-12 kids at every off season spring workout. Doing two a days.. lifting, eating a snack then doing freestyle wrestling practice. I have coaches and teachers in the school asking how the hell I've gotten “city kids” training so hard (which uses up pretty all of my professionalism left over after teaching and running practice to not respond the way I’d like to.
10. They are buying in and asking ways to train and working to convince friends to join
11. I have a great relationship with my AD and Assistant Principal and get the support I need because I work with them to help the entire school and do what is asked, and ask what I can do for the school instead of just whining and demanding
12. The Principal isn’t into athletics but he supports the team and me because I kept grades at least decent, I keep track of my kids, do what I’m told.
13. Have very good parent support. To the point that if I was not working to build an intrinsic self motivated burning desire in them to do what is necessary to be great.. I could have parents forcing their kid to train every day in the off season.. not because they are sports parents.. but because they trust me
14. Half of my team is in the early college program offered by our school
15. The proudest moment.. my school had a week where there were over 15 brawls and/fights in one week.. not a single one of my kids got sucked into or involved in them
16. All at a school less than ten years old, no athletic tradition in any sport. And only 2 kids with past experience wrestling

Now I’m not saying this as a brag.. I spend more time thinking about how to fix what I did poorly or not to my standards than what I and the kids have accomplished together. I am stating facts

Since this was another one of your little “I don’t like what you have to say so I’m going to try to disparage you, your knowledge and your skills. Calling you a water boy” Even if it means that you have to deliberately ignore what has been stated several times.

Could you try to avoid trying to ignore what I said until I say I 3 times because it’s inconvenient. It would be only reciprocal

I never said you had not coached 20 years.. or didn’t at least know some technique. I just said you coached in the south.. and had a view not current to best parts of country in Freestyle or Folk. Now was I mean when I said it.. obviously.. eye roll.

But I never tried to come up with lame insults or lies saying you hadn’t coached.

Oh btw.. what year did your family leave South Africa? Early 90s

 

[tekkenfan]

tb h kids r pussies today with the way culture is just look at how men even dress today trying to follow the mainstream trends
there is an attack on masculinity today kids rather sit at home and play videogames even the military had to drop their standards on special forces entry i heard i honestly think its the horrible time were in atm its not a good time to eb a coach right now

hell in my hometown no young teens wana get into martial arts after my generation no younger kids wanted to train they were all to lazy afraid theyd lose ect

it isnt just wrestling for instance they fucking let 9-12 yearolds in baseball use big barrel bats today lmaooo thats how bad kids are today thats insane..... they make special bats -12 big barrel for kids in little league baseball that really explains alot

 

[yetanother]

You still haven’t given explanation of how you would get it accepted as a scholastic sport

If folkstyle rules got tweaked into freestyle light wouldn't the "new" sport inherit the scholastic acceptance of the "old" folkstyle rules.

 

[jack36767]

If folkstyle rules got tweaked into freestyle light wouldn't the "new" sport inherit the scholastic acceptance of the "old" folkstyle rules.

Doing a combo rule set won’t go as smoothly or translate as well as he thinks

Most of his obsession over this comes from not being able to coach habits into his athletes. His biggest whine is about locking hands.
He talked about how most of his mma fighters were his former wrestlers who “struggled with not keeping hands locked”..

I’ll be honest dude, in a well coached program that does year round training.. Folkstyle and freestyle. Whether a rich program or poor. It take mayyybe two weeks to get them either keeping hands locked or not keeping them locked.

Also. He is naive and think that there is a magical fix to a complex situation. Which is always stupid

Now based on my actual experience around the country.. Also knowing why kids now a days do and don’t wrestle.. and the place of Olympics sports on the money hierarchy.. switching would neither magically “fix” the situation nor bring in lots of money..

Also, Folkstyle allows the greatest number of young men and women to participate at local levels. The number drop he talked about would have happened with freestyle. Wrestling in ALL 3 styles is going the way of all American sport. Early/over specializing which leads to “regular” kids quitting because they aren’t even being competitive much less winning matches. Add in the difference in generation. And even on young inexperienced teams you either have studs or duds. The mid tier .500-.700 record solid wrestler is going way of dodo. Either have to train full time or accept ass beating for a lot longer than you used to which leads to kids leaving. Which.. shrinks the numbers

The over specializing is also what is leading to better US performance because the elite kids with the rich daddy or can get “financial” aid go to the private boarding schools or the OTC

Wrestling because it can have large rosters like football has always had a weird spot in between the specialized small team rich people sports like tennis, and the more accessible, larger roster sports like football and basketball. The over specializing is leading to wrestling becoming a upper class and private school sport mostly accessible to the rich

All of which, Gavin, being so up to date and educated on the landscape of the sport.. should be well versed in.. yet he thinks switching to freestyle would magically fix it

 

[Forever Young]

Yeah, it's dying. No other way to look at it. American values are changing, and wrestling, as a part of that, will too. Not that it's all bad though. For the most part, our middle and high schools have lost any connection to their communities and are just some forum for placating parents and furthering a BS culture war. Yeah, wrestling and football are gonna be gone from that environment, but it's honestly not even a good environment at all.

Meanwhile, MMA and BJJ are growing rapidly to fill the void, but in private gyms with coaches who aren't completely subservient to a pack of lawyers, legislators, and whichever ratfucking party happens to be in charge of their state. I would probably call that an upgrade overall.

Sure, it sucks that kids won't be learning churella tilts and sprecker rolls, but they'll still be able to extract the deeper personal values from martial arts if they want; and possibly in an environment that actually treats them like young men, not just as lawsuits to be avoided.

 

[jack36767]

Yeah, it's dying. No other way to look at it. American values are changing, and wrestling, as a part of that, will too. Not that it's all bad though. For the most part, our middle and high schools have lost any connection to their communities and are just some forum for placating parents and furthering a BS culture war. Yeah, wrestling and football are gonna be gone from that environment, but it's honestly not even a good environment at all.

Meanwhile, MMA and BJJ are growing rapidly to fill the void, but in private gyms with coaches who aren't completely subservient to a pack of lawyers, legislators, and whichever ratfucking party happens to be in charge of their state. I would probably call that an upgrade overall.

Sure, it sucks that kids won't be learning churella tilts and sprecker rolls, but they'll still be able to extract the deeper personal values from martial arts if they want; and possibly in an environment that actually treats them like young men, not just as lawsuits to be avoided.

Wrestling has a better chance than people think. That’s a whole other discussion though. As far as changing values.. that’s knowing how to talk to parents and the kids and being willing to be patient

Be careful about only wanting private gyms if you only want more well to do involved..

Though you do understand my point about it not mattering if it was freestyle or Folkstyle as far as numbers go

 

[yetanother]

He talked about how most of his mma fighters were his former wrestlers who “struggled with not keeping hands locked”..

He doesn't know shit about mma.

All of which, Gavin, being so up to date and educated on the landscape of the sport.. should be well versed in.. yet he thinks switching to freestyle would magically fix

It seems dubious if even switching the Olympics to folkstyle would magically fix things.

 

[mataleaos]

As an outside looking in, does some of this have to do with the fact that folkstyle doesn't really have a presence past the American collegiate scene, and wrestlers want to do more freestyle and Greco?

 

[Warwick7]

Are slams inhereitly more bad ass then control? Both are great, but the adrenaline you get from dominating your opponent is prime for me; especially in a submission ruleset.