All Time GOAT poll

[icemun]

I never suggested that he was on steroids in all his fights, I am saying that he used steroids and since we can't know in how many fights, he is excluded from GOAT status and we need to consider candidates with less wins who we know did not use steroids.

That excludes any fighter prior to USADA then.

Basically deleting 20 years of MMA and entire organizations that encourage steroids.

Thats leaves a couple fighters who are currently champions, which is your personal opinion.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Beat his seven opponents who were on.

Who isn't?

Who were they?

 

[RonMachineGunJhun]

If he just fights at heavyweight I’ll be impressed.

I dont see Jon making the walk to the Octagon ever again.

 

[Mangar]

Fedor would destroy him, heck prime Crocop would cave his head in.

 

[Argonaut]

The GOAT debate is so complex because the categories are subjective. Anderson, Jones, GSP, Fedor, Demetrius all have a clame to it.

But what weight do you give to title defenses, finishes, clean tests, top 10 wins, weight class.

Pure skill, relative to every fighter p4p, its prime Demetrius.

Skill relative to their weight class, Jones, Anderson or Fedor

Top 10 wins, GSP

Finishing top 10 fighters, Fedor or Anderson

Clean tests, Demetrius, Fedor, GSP

 

[BowserJr]

Is there anything he could do at HW to convince you otherwise?

It seems to me that almost every argument against his place as #1 rests on the positive steroid tests. I am not making this thread to argue that is invalid. I am not even arguing that Jones is the GOAT. I am simply asking those who rank someone else higher, if he has a path to reach that #1 rank in your mind.


A win over Stipe is easily dismissed due to age and cumulative damage

Gane got out-wrestled by Francis

Outpointing Francis, Lewis, Tai, could be downplayed due to relative slowness and lack of diverse striking

A win over Blaydes or Aspinall would be impressive, but they are ranked lower in the top 10


If he comes back and tests clean, what HW wins would cement his status as the greatest, in your eyes?

He has to come back clean and at very least beat Stipe, Volkov, Aspinall, Francis, Lewis, Gane

He'd have a completely undisputed case if he fought and beat Werdum, JDS and Reem when they were in UFC instead of Lewis, Gane, Volkov

For comparison Fedor decisively beat Nogx2, Herring, Crocop, Arlovski and Sylvia when they were all top 10 and most importantly were his contemporaries in that they were all at their respective peaks at the same time. In that regard Mir can be counted as well. If anything Fedor was more past his prime than Mir when he fought Mir. He did this all while undersized for HW. No size, height or reach advantage

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

No we aren’t. I give athletes the benefit of the doubt. If DC or Bisping (for example) adamantly state they are clean athletes, and they’ve never failed a PED test ever in their careers, I’m inclined to believe them until there’s evidence to the contrary. It does not seem likely to me that they are just way better at not ever getting caught, whereas Jones has failed or suspicious tests every 5 minutes.

Jones apologists want us to assume every other fighter is as much of a PED cheat as Jones is, as a way of trying to redeem his career and accomplishments.

Jones is a drug addict. So yes of course other athletes are way better at it. There are tons of fighters who never failed a test who you would have to be a moron to think they were clean their entire career.

I don’t like Jon at all. I can’t imagine why anyone would. But he’s far from the only one using PEDs.

If Jones can't be the GOAT because of steroids........Then you have to exclude every early UFC fighter from the list, along with PrideFC fighters. The entire era was riddled with steroids, much of it blatant and encouraged.

USADA era fighters who've never popped are the only ones eligible.

It’s not even like USADA is that much better than the major American ACs. They have no scientific explanation for why Jones’ pico test was not interpreted as a reingestion of the substance but a small amount still showing up from long ago with no benefits. Like, they just made that up. I can’t take any USADA testing seriously because they’ve proven they have the power to determine which of their positive tests are actually invalid. So you can test positive and be found “clean” by USADA. What good are they? Worthless.

 

[BFoe]

Jones is a drug addict. So yes of course other athletes are way better at it. There are tons of fighters who never failed a test who you would have to be a moron to think they were clean their entire career.

I don’t like Jon at all. I can’t imagine why anyone would. But he’s far from the only one using PEDs.

Sure, there’s certainly fighters who use PEDs who have never been caught. What I’m saying is that I don’t just assume some fighters (or all fighters) are dirty and then use that as an excuse to forgive Jones for cheating multiple times. Why should I say for example, “Well, lots of fighters cheat and use PEDs, so I bet Fedor and GSP did too,” and then evaluate Jones’ career the same as theirs? Fedor and GSP claim to be clean athletes and have the tests to back that claim up. Jones doesn’t.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Sure, there’s certainly fighters who use PEDs who have never been caught. What I’m saying is that I don’t just assume some fighters (or all fighters) are dirty and then use that as an excuse to forgive Jones for cheating multiple times. Why should I say for example, “Well, lots of fighters cheat and use PEDs, so I bet Fedor and GSP did too,” and then evaluate Jones’ career the same as theirs? Fedor and GSP claim to be clean athletes and have the tests to back that claim up. Jones doesn’t.

Well my point was Jones is literally a drug addict. He has no ability to use substances safely or responsibly and he has no control over himself when it comes to substance use. That makes it much harder for him to beat tests than other athletes. As has been said by those involved in the testing themselves, “they’re not drug tests so much as intelligence tests.”

However you want to evaluate GOAT or morals or whatever else is none of my business and not my point. I’m not going to say guys who haven’t failed tests definitely used anything either.

I hope you can at least recognize that USADA is more corrupt than any individual fighter can be, though. They determine who is “clean” or not, and they’ve proven they cannot be trusted. Just look at the guys who fail tests and then get no punishment like Jones or Islam. It’s just a mess is all.

 

[rstringer]

That excludes any fighter prior to USADA then.

Basically deleting 20 years of MMA and entire organizations that encourage steroids.

Thats leaves a couple fighters who are currently champions, which is your personal opinion.

And it is your opinion that everyone pre usada was on steroids

The point is when we KNOW someone is on steroids we don't reward them for it.

This is how it works for every sport , why are you trying so hard to exempt mma from this golden rule?

 

[rstringer]

That excludes any fighter prior to USADA then.

Basically deleting 20 years of MMA and entire organizations that encourage steroids.

Thats leaves a couple fighters who are currently champions, which is your personal opinion.

And btw when evaluating goat status the future is way more important than the past as records are broken as we move forward so I am quite happy not having anyone being labeled a goat that competed in the past 20 years.

 

[mister piscadinha]

this is all assuming that jon jones could beat anyone at HW, a very debatable thing since he had trouble with all the tall guys he fought at lhw

i would be RIDICULOUSLY impressed if jones could beat aspinall, who seems to be HW best fighter overall

 

[Swarthy]

Roid user. That is all!

 

[Mike]

No, a known steroid cheat can never be the goat.

 

[Pinyin]

He would have to beat Francis and one other top HW without needing USADA to wipe his ass.

Also, I really couldn't care less about Stipe-Jones at this point. Stipe will need a wheelchair to get to the cage.

wrong weight class. Jones is a LHW and was the most dominant one in history.

 

[Sweater of AV]

wrong weight class. Jones is a LHW and was the most dominant one in history.

You should probably read the OP there Pinyin.

 

[Dirty Frank]

Nah.

I deny that Jones is GOAT.

 

[icemun]

And it is your opinion that everyone pre usada was on steroids

The point is when we KNOW someone is on steroids we don't reward them for it.

This is how it works for every sport , why are you trying so hard to exempt mma from this golden rule?

Because anyones who's been watching mma for any extended amount of time knows what's going on.
Seven of Jones opponents have popped.
How many HW champs have popped?

Hell many of them were in Pride where steroids were encouraged.

Youd literally gave a child like awareness to not know what's going on

 

[spooNN]

For starters, he can take any fight at HW. He's just been talk for the last couple of years.

 

[SupremeGuy]

Brah, when he fights at a top-level without getting busted for PEDs again...