All Time GOAT poll

[italiamusica]

He needs to finally come back to HW and dominate, like he always claims he can do. Doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen though, especially since this dude can't get his life together.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

Very impressive, but like Barry Bonds his career has a giant asterisk, so nope, can't be the GOAT.

 

[xn7]

how does he win clean?

even if he slips by the tests, everyone assumes he is still cheating and has his entire career.

 

[DesiredUserName]

Jon Juice Jones

 

[TerryBogard]

He is FAR from GOAT, he lost his 3 latest fights and only bullies much smaller opponents and is scared of someone actually his size.

 

[thorcorm]

What would happen if Jon comes back and goes something like 3 wins and 3 losses in the HW division and never captures the belt?

Do we rank DC as the better fighter, and Jones just had his number? Yet, against the rest of the field DC>Jones?

 

[thorcorm]

The people who rag on and on about the PED issues being their problem with acknowledging his accomplishments always conveniently leave out that he also notoriously spent his camps blasted on cocaine, blackout drunk, smoking weed, and partying. And was even worse of a degenerate outside of camp, who also often let himself go and get fat.

His PED use is nowhere near the same as if he were some squeaky clean athlete who was training optimally, eating optimally, sleeping optimally, etc., 24/7 that got that push on top of being the best you could possibly be naturally. THAT is when it's truly and possibly an unfair advantage.

When your lifestyle however is as bad as Jones', it's far more likely that PEDs were the only thing making him capable of training and competing like somebody WITHOUT his lifestyle. Not were pushing him past those optimal natural athletes to an unfair advantage. PEDs were bringing him to a regular athlete, not some kind of superathlete. Take away the 7am party nights out and you'd have had that, but that's not Jones.

It's also all just such a dumb argument to begin with when we very often have no idea what peoples levels are comparatively. People sit here and act like a "pass" is the same thing as "normal" when it's not. The levels are always allowed up to the complete upper limit of humans and only fail THEN once we've passed the never before seen naturally occurring range. Not are flagged as soon as they pass the average athlete's levels and an investigation is opened to figure why you're in the upper realm of humanity. You've got guys 1 molecule away from failing and you have no idea about it because it's not registered as a fail even though it's absolutely unusual, meanwhile their opponent can be sitting there naturally at 4x less levels. Both pass, but it's clearly not fair then.

We have zero idea what is "fair" chemically unless we actually kept every athlete to the exact same levels, or only matched them to similar levels. We don't do that, so the people sitting here pretending passes and fails are the end all be all of what's a fair fight have their heads completely in the sand. Not surprising though as this exact misunderstanding is what got TRT banned even though the TRT users were the only ones having their levels blood regulated and standardized meanwhile their opponents weren't and could just "pass" a piss test.

Yeah... thats not how PEDs work... lol.

 

[rstringer]

Because anyones who's been watching mma for any extended amount of time knows what's going on.
Seven of Jones opponents have popped.
How many HW champs have popped?

Hell many of them were in Pride where steroids were encouraged.

Youd literally gave a child like awareness to not know what's going on

Even i

Because anyones who's been watching mma for any extended amount of time knows what's going on.
Seven of Jones opponents have popped.
How many HW champs have popped?

Hell many of them were in Pride where steroids were encouraged.

Youd literally gave a child like awareness to not know what's going on

Let's assume for a second that what you say is true. You are proposing that we give goat designation to a known cheater because he was more successful over other known cheaters?

You can't be serious.

 

[Elvis.]

This is why you don’t use gear , now all of your accomplishments are forever in question.

 

[Yellowcrab]

No, there’s nothing he could do. His entire career is an asterisk because of his numerous PED issues. Has nothing to do with what weight class he fights in.

Fedor is in your picture...

Try to find out the answer on Google

 

[Yellowcrab]

No we aren’t. I give athletes the benefit of the doubt. If DC or Bisping (for example) adamantly state they are clean athletes, and they’ve never failed a PED test ever in their careers, I’m inclined to believe them until there’s evidence to the contrary. It does not seem likely to me that they are just way better at not ever getting caught, whereas Jones has failed or suspicious tests every 5 minutes.

Jones apologists want us to assume every other fighter is as much of a PED cheat as Jones is, as a way of trying to redeem his career and accomplishments.

No that's not the point actually... most athletes certainly use something.

However, some athletes might be completely clean, i won't dispute that.

But when you give a free pass to an athlete who did most of his career in the Pride FC + is from Russia, you're simply not reliable.

You know JJ has a better career than Fedor, so you have to diminish his career to protect your idol

No fighter who competed in Pride should ever been taken seriously about doping, i'm sorry... especially if they come from eastern europe

 

[icemun]

Even i


Let's assume for a second that what you say is true. You are proposing that we give goat designation to a known cheater because he was more successful over other known cheaters?

You can't be serious.

Are you serious?

Do you really think men who's livelihood is totally depend on their physical ability to fight in a cage no less would NOT be taking something?

Guys who've fought in organizations like Pride where steroids were issued to fighters, d1 athletes who've taken gear since high school.

Athletes who may be making millions at this point are just taking whey protein and creatine?

Newsflash for you bud
They're all on since UFC 1

 

[icemun]

No that's not the point actually... most athletes certainly use something.

However, some athletes might be completely clean, i won't dispute that.

But when you give a free pass to an athlete who did most of his career in the Pride FC + is from Russia, you're simply not reliable.

You know JJ has a better career than Fedor, so you have to diminish his career to protect your idol

No fighter who competed in Pride should ever been taken seriously about doping, i'm sorry... especially if they come from eastern europe

Not just from eastern Europe, a country that has specifically been banned from the olympics for state supported steroid abuse.

 

[rstringer]

Are you serious?

Do you really think men who's livelihood is totally depend on their physical ability to fight in a cage no less would NOT be taking something?

Guys who've fought in organizations like Pride where steroids were issued to fighters, d1 athletes who've taken gear since high school.

Athletes who may be making millions at this point are just taking whey protein and creatine?

Newsflash for you bud
They're all on since UFC 1

Yes, Khabib used his body to provide for his family and he didn't cheat.

You think everyone is on steroids and it appears there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind so I have nothing else to add.

 

[true_fan]

Just look at Vitor on TRT he was a monster. Roids affect everyone differently, plus Jones resorts to eye pokes and uses his long reach to keep that eye poke threat there the whole fight, goat my arse!

 

[icemun]

Yes, Khabib used his body to provide for his family and he didn't cheat.

You think everyone is on steroids and it appears there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind so I have nothing else to add.

Well i didnt just start watching MMA

Since the days of Royce and Shamrock (who've both popped) to watching HW champions Silvia, Brock, Barnett, Mir, Reem, Werdum all popping.

I also know athletes and other pro sports.

If you truly think that guys were taking steroids for a few hundred bucks a fight in early UFC/pride, to suddenly going natural when there are millions at stake, (especially from countries that have been banned from the international competition for doping)
this is testament to your worldliness /naiveity and knowledge of mma.

 

[true_fan]

Well i didnt just start watching MMA

Since the days of Royce and Shamrock (who've both popped) to watching HW champions Silvia, Brock, Barnett, Mir, Reem, Werdum all popping.

I also know athletes and other pro sports.

If you truly think that guys were taking steroids for a few hundred bucks a fight in early UFC/pride, to suddenly going natural when there are millions at stake, (especially from countries that have been banned from the international competition for doping)
this is testament to your worldliness /naiveity and knowledge of mma.

It’s big haram to put steroids in your body in Islam unless you’re really sick and it would save your life. Khabib is a straight religious guy and he is just was raised and born to fight and doesn’t need to poke people in the eyes to win.

 

[TripTictonic]

Yeah he could go beat Stipe and
win the HW title and I would consider him unquestionable GOAT. He won’t though

 

[rstringer]

Well i didnt just start watching MMA

Since the days of Royce and Shamrock (who've both popped) to watching HW champions Silvia, Brock, Barnett, Mir, Reem, Werdum all popping.

I also know athletes and other pro sports.

If you truly think that guys were taking steroids for a few hundred bucks a fight in early UFC/pride, to suddenly going natural when there are millions at stake, (especially from countries that have been banned from the international competition for doping)
this is testament to your worldliness /naiveity and knowledge of mma.

You know nothing about me and the fact that you resort to personal attacks while passing your biased opinions as facts show that you have no arguments left.

Good bye.

 

[Juice]

Jon isn't GOAT though.

Jones is the GOAT though.

No matter how much you want to stay in denial about it.