All Time GOAT poll

BFoe said:
No, there’s nothing he could do. His entire career is an asterisk because of his numerous PED issues. Has nothing to do with what weight class he fights in.
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nobody thinks fedor is the GOAT
 
Kettleball Fedor is the GOAT. It's an indisputable fact bro. Jones would have been annihilated by Kettleball Fedor. Trying to run, eyepoking and all his peds wouldn't have helped. Jones is fortunate he reigned during the era he did. He was too underconfident to face Cornier even once at HW. Mr.Jon "Fearful" Jones. aka Jon "Gearfull" Jones<Lmaoo>
 
As a Jones hater, I set the bar low. If he can win just three fights in the top 5 of HW including a legit championship fight (ideally interim, championship, defense)--combined with his LHW record--he will be the greatest fighter to date no question, steroids or not. I believe that the real goat has to be successful at the highest division otherwise you're just a weightclass goat.
 
ThunderStruck said:
Thats like saying a rapist isn't really a rapist because he donated to charity. Bulllllllll fucking shit.
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What a beyond horrible and shameful analogy.

Go wear a Whoop for once in your life and see how much just a little alcohol ruins your recovery the next day compared to without it. Then instead get blackout drunk, do every drug under the sun, fuck a couple prostitutes, and drive home still wasted at 7am like Jones was doing. While having to train multiple times a day, multiple times a week, cutting weight, and preparing to fight someone in 8-12 weeks. His body should've been a complete wreck. That it's not is due to the PEDs, and is likely a very leading cause of why he turned to them in the first place rather than give up his lifestyle: they let him do both.

You simply cannot talk about the effect PEDs had on Jones without acknowledging just how bad his lifestyle is. He's not someone who was living absolutely optimally like a professional athlete should've been and then amping himself on top of that, which is where you get the problem of "cheating" as someone else can't make up that difference. No, he was someone who was a complete wreck and taking PEDs, which makes the "superhuman" argument nonsense as he's starting from the bottom.

The benefits were seen far, far more in that he was able to make it through camp after camp while living like complete dogshit.
 
markg171 said:
What a beyond horrible and shameful analogy.

Go wear a Whoop for once in your life and see how much just a little alcohol ruins your recovery the next day compared to without it. Then instead get blackout drunk, do every drug under the sun, fuck a couple prostitutes, and drive home still wasted at 7am like Jones was doing. While having to train multiple times a day, multiple times a week, cutting weight, and preparing to fight someone in 8-12 weeks. His body should've been a complete wreck. That it's not is due to the PEDs, and is likely a very leading cause of why he turned to them in the first place rather than give up his lifestyle: they let him do both.

You simply cannot talk about the effect PEDs had on Jones without acknowledging just how bad his lifestyle is. He's not someone who was living absolutely optimally like a professional athlete should've been and then amping himself on top of that, which is where you get the problem of "cheating" as someone else can't make up that difference. No, he was someone who was a complete wreck and taking PEDs, which makes the "superhuman" argument nonsense as he's starting from the bottom.

The benefits were seen far, far more in that he was able to make it through camp after camp while living like complete dogshit.
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You act like never in the history of sports an athlete has performed well on cocaine.

"Oh look he's using cocaine. It deteriorates his performance so much that its ok if he use steroids to compensate"

Fucking pathetic excuse.
 
BFoe said:
No, there’s nothing he could do. His entire career is an asterisk because of his numerous PED issues. Has nothing to do with what weight class he fights in.
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Hes the only fighter to have a championship reign that transitioned into USADA, period.

In addition to SEVEN of his opponents popping, many of them came from Pride where steroids were encouraged and given to fighters.

To walk around believing pro cage fighters arent taking something is a child like level of naivety
 
Already accomplished

KH-COMP-GRAPHIC-SPORTS-UFC.jpg
 
franquito said:
Is there anything he could do at HW to convince you otherwise?


It seems to me that almost every argument against his place as #1 rests on the positive steroid tests. I am not making this thread to argue that is invalid. I am not even arguing that Jones is the GOAT. I am simply asking those who rank someone else higher, if he has a path to reach that #1 rank in your mind.


A win over Stipe is easily dismissed due to age and cumulative damage

Gane got out-wrestled by Francis

Outpointing Francis, Lewis, Tai, could be downplayed due to relative slowness and lack of diverse striking

A win over Blaydes or Aspinall would be impressive, but they are ranked lower in the top 10


If he comes back and tests clean, what HW wins would cement his status as the greatest, in your eyes?
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You make some valid points.
Erasing everything he did before being tested positive does not seem right to me.
At the end of the day, those who dont like the dude wont ever reckon greatness in him and they ll back that up with the doping stuff.
That being said, if he beats Francis - the one we got in Stipe 2 - man it will be something.
 
if he comes to fight clean and win HW title, I am willing to put him back into the conversation.
 
GOAT what? GOAT UFC LHW? yeah for sure, if Stipe can be the UFC GOAT HW jones for sure can be the LHW.

GOAT mma fighter? nah, has drug issues and very bad decision wins regardless if he won all fights on the scorecards, Reyes beat him up, Santos did enough to warrant a win & Gus the same.

If h ever fights at HW he will make sure it's to a very beatable Stipe which people for some reason like to call GOAT with a pretty full mouth, he lost to Struve lol, he isn't the GOAT & neither will Jones be if he manages to beat him.

I would call him a GOAT and suck his dick if he went up there and TKO'd Ngannou in the second round.
 
icemun said:
Beat his seven opponents who were on.

Who isn't?
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Really? which one of them was on steroids when he beat them?

Many people aren't and with your logic why don't we let all olympians who lost their medals due to steroid abuse just keep them.
 
rstringer said:
Really? which one of them was on steroids when he beat them?

Many people aren't and with your logic why don't we let all olympians who lost their medals due to steroid abuse just keep them.
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Which ones were busted after, before or for their fight?

I'm not following

You are suggesting he was on steroids for all his fights but need to know the specific fights his opponents popped for?



Mma is not the olympics. Pride encouraged steroids. Pioneers like Royce and Shamrock were openly juicing. You think athletes just stopped recently when there was more money at stake??
 
If Jones can't be the GOAT because of steroids........Then you have to exclude every early UFC fighter from the list, along with PrideFC fighters. The entire era was riddled with steroids, much of it blatant and encouraged.

USADA era fighters who've never popped are the only ones eligible.
 
markg171 said:
The people who rag on and on about the PED issues being their problem with acknowledging his accomplishments always conveniently leave out that he also notoriously spent his camps blasted on cocaine, blackout drunk, smoking weed, and partying. And was even worse of a degenerate outside of camp, who also often let himself go and get fat.

His PED use is nowhere near the same as if he were some squeaky clean athlete who was training optimally, eating optimally, sleeping optimally, etc., 24/7 that got that push on top of being the best you could possibly be naturally. THAT is when it's truly and possibly an unfair advantage.

When your lifestyle however is as bad as Jones', it's far more likely that PEDs were the only thing making him capable of training and competing like somebody WITHOUT his lifestyle. Not were pushing him past those optimal natural athletes to an unfair advantage. PEDs were bringing him to a regular athlete, not some kind of superathlete. Take away the 7am party nights out and you'd have had that, but that's not Jones.

It's also all just such a dumb argument to begin with when we very often have no idea what peoples levels are comparatively. People sit here and act like a "pass" is the same thing as "normal" when it's not. The levels are always allowed up to the complete upper limit of humans and only fail THEN once we've passed the never before seen naturally occurring range. Not are flagged as soon as they pass the average athlete's levels and an investigation is opened to figure why you're in the upper realm of humanity. You've got guys 1 molecule away from failing and you have no idea about it because it's not registered as a fail even though it's absolutely unusual, meanwhile their opponent can be sitting there naturally at 4x less levels. Both pass, but it's clearly not fair then.

We have zero idea what is "fair" chemically unless we actually kept every athlete to the exact same levels, or only matched them to similar levels. We don't do that, so the people sitting here pretending passes and fails are the end all be all of what's a fair fight have their heads completely in the sand. Not surprising though as this exact misunderstanding is what got TRT banned even though the TRT users were the only ones having their levels blood regulated and standardized meanwhile their opponents weren't and could just "pass" a piss test.
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Your boy Jon Jones ducked Francis because he's a coward who would rather fight women
 
icemun said:
Which ones were busted after, before or for their fight?

I'm not following

You are suggesting he was on steroids for all his fights but need to know the specific fights his opponents popped for?



Mma is not the olympics. Pride encouraged steroids. Pioneers like Royce and Shamrock were openly juicing. You think athletes just stopped recently when there was more money at stake??
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I never suggested that he was on steroids in all his fights, I am saying that he used steroids and since we can't know in how many fights, he is excluded from GOAT status and we need to consider candidates with less wins who we know did not use steroids.
 
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