All Time GOAT poll

[G10]

If you subscribe to the Nick Diaz theory of "all of you are on steroids" then Jon Jones is THE GOAT, without a doubt. He doesn't even need heavyweight fights to prove that.

As for those who believe that a fighter's history of PED use should be considered in GOAT debate, I don't think there's anything Jon can do to convince them. It all comes down to individual criteria of course, but Jon's long history of it suggests to me that he's been using for longer than we're lead to believe, which throws asterisks across his entire legacy.

Personally, I'm more in the latter camp, but it would still be super impressive to see him beat some top guys in the HW division.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Nothing will ever make me forget all the cheating he did but but if he cleans HW, I put him right back in top 5 ever


FYI I'd have him as the GOAT or co-GOAT (with GSP) if he was clean during his prime

 

[Deceasedxo]

People who slate jones for peds are just in denial about the fact that most if not all athletes use peds in some way or another.

 

[Kenny Powerth]

Start his whole career over end never fail a drug test, never beat a woman, etc etc etc

 

[BFoe]

People who slate jones for peds are just in denial about the fact that most if not all athletes use peds in some way or another.

No we aren’t. I give athletes the benefit of the doubt. If DC or Bisping (for example) adamantly state they are clean athletes, and they’ve never failed a PED test ever in their careers, I’m inclined to believe them until there’s evidence to the contrary. It does not seem likely to me that they are just way better at not ever getting caught, whereas Jones has failed or suspicious tests every 5 minutes.

Jones apologists want us to assume every other fighter is as much of a PED cheat as Jones is, as a way of trying to redeem his career and accomplishments.

 

[Uncertainly Principled]

What do you mean, one positive test? Dude has had a shitload of positive tests.
https://www.mmanews.com/2021/12/the-hidden-asterisks-behind-jon-joness-drug-test-history-2/

"shitload" = 4, one of which was actually for cocaine, one for the dick pills, then the 2 "pulsing" turinabol ones

It is funny how people take the authority's word for the positive tests, but not the authority's word in mitigation for Jones

If you read that article & that data is enough to discount Jones as a GOAT candidate for you, fair play. For me it's totally irrelevant, particularly after reading that.

 

[ferrisjso]

I think Jones is a tremendous fighter, but unfortunately he doesnt only have "one positive test"

Only one NC.

The other one is UFC 200 for dick pills and I'm not going to validate UFC 232 conspiracy theories by refuting them anymore.

 

[ferrisjso]

"shitload" = 4, one of which was actually for cocaine, one for the dick pills, then the 2 "pulsing" turinabol ones

It is funny how people take the authority's word for the positive tests, but not the authority's word in mitigation for Jones

If you read that article & that data is enough to discount Jones as a GOAT candidate for you, fair play. For me it's totally irrelevant, particularly after reading that.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!

 

[Shaddows]

Is there anything he could do at HW to convince you otherwise?


It seems to me that almost every argument against his place as #1 rests on the positive steroid tests. I am not making this thread to argue that is invalid. I am not even arguing that Jones is the GOAT. I am simply asking those who rank someone else higher, if he has a path to reach that #1 rank in your mind.


A win over Stipe is easily dismissed due to age and cumulative damage

Gane got out-wrestled by Francis

Outpointing Francis, Lewis, Tai, could be downplayed due to relative slowness and lack of diverse striking

A win over Blaydes or Aspinall would be impressive, but they are ranked lower in the top 10


If he comes back and tests clean, what HW wins would cement his status as the greatest, in your eyes?

IMHO he has a ways to catch up with Fedor (whom I consider the GOAT).
But if he moves to HW and win fights against the top of the division, he can surely get there. Or even go back to LHW and reclaim his throne.

I do think he is one of the best Martial artists ever, in the same sentence as Fedor, Silva or GSP... I just don't think he did enough to surpass them yet.

 

[BFoe]

"shitload" = 4, one of which was actually for cocaine, one for the dick pills, then the 2 "pulsing" turinabol ones

It is funny how people take the authority's word for the positive tests, but not the authority's word in mitigation for Jones

If you read that article & that data is enough to discount Jones as a GOAT candidate for you, fair play. For me it's totally irrelevant, particularly after reading that.

Lmao you don’t think 4 positive tests is a shitload? <45> It’s an insane number of failed tests, and while the cocaine one didn’t have PEDs found, he did have suspiciously low T.

As far as the authority’s verdict? I get that tainted supplements happen. It happened to Nate Diaz, someone very outspoken against steroids who had never failed any test. I’m inclined to overlook his, as it was found to be a tainted supplement. But pulsing? Lol c’mon. I can’t think of another fighter in the history of the sport that has had that happen. Guess it must be Jones’ biology, or bad luck or something, hmm?

If reading the article I posted isn’t enough for you, nothing will be—and that’s your prerogative. He has had PCT drugs in his system, actual PEDs in his system, suspiciously low T indicative of PED use, several “pulsing” tests….dude is a career-long CHEAT. Shame too, as he’s obviously tremendously talented.

 

[Be the ball]

If Jones became heavyweight champion I would be super impressed. Could care less if he was/is on peds. That said, there's a very slim chance of that ever happening.

At best Jones fights once at heavyweight, gets beat up and either moves down to lhw or retires.

 

[Draxton]

I feel if he cleans out HW they are going to go the "one positive test invalidates a whole career" route like the cowards they are.

He’s had a lot more than one positive test.

 

[Marko Polo]

Is there anything he could do at HW to convince you otherwise?


It seems to me that almost every argument against his place as #1 rests on the positive steroid tests. I am not making this thread to argue that is invalid. I am not even arguing that Jones is the GOAT. I am simply asking those who rank someone else higher, if he has a path to reach that #1 rank in your mind.


A win over Stipe is easily dismissed due to age and cumulative damage

Gane got out-wrestled by Francis

Outpointing Francis, Lewis, Tai, could be downplayed due to relative slowness and lack of diverse striking

A win over Blaydes or Aspinall would be impressive, but they are ranked lower in the top 10


If he comes back and tests clean, what HW wins would cement his status as the greatest, in your eyes?

Jon refused to fight Chael on short notice and a whole event had to be scrapped. Chael Sonnen at LHW, and he refused to fight him. The dude is mentally weak and has been abusing steroids and drugs his whole career. I would be suprised if he ever fights at HW, or at all for that matter

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Jon's GOAT at doing coke and getting arrested.

Don't forget "pulsing" PEDs 2yrs after he apparently had last done them. Which, to my knowledge, has never happened before or after for anyone else.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

You see guys like TJ and Anderson getting slammed for one positive test. Jones failed 5000 tests.

Problem with TJ is he has been called out for years and was called out specifically for EPO about a year before he was busted for EPO. So he is another guy like Jon who is in all likelihood a career PED abuser.

 

[SCTwins]

LOL at the bullshit rhetoric implied by "deny."

As in there isn't really an argument, TS think Jon is undisputably the GOAT and is flabbergasted by the denial of haters.

Fedor is GOAT.
GSP is smaller GOAT.
Silva is GOAT's GOAT
Jon's GOAT at doing coke and getting arrested.

These are just facts,
in this subjective debate.

GOAT thread #9,309,287.

EDIT***
And here is a picture of GOAT surrounded by GOAT POOP, because thread needed it:

Do they really just shit pellets? I would have never guessed.

Edit- upon further study, I do see a couple small logs in there. Either way; interesting.

 

[Uncertainly Principled]

Lmao you don’t think 4 positive tests is a shitload? <45> It’s an insane number of failed tests, and while the cocaine one didn’t have PEDs found, he did have suspiciously low T.

I'm mostly reacting to my own perception of how bad I'd thought his cheating was versus what it actually is; it's actually only 3 PED infringements, which I don't think is a shitload, particularly given the context of Jones' career.

As far as the authority’s verdict? I get that tainted supplements happen. It happened to Nate Diaz, someone very outspoken against steroids who had never failed any test. I’m inclined to overlook his, as it was found to be a tainted supplement. But pulsing? Lol c’mon. I can’t think of another fighter in the history of the sport that has had that happen. Guess it must be Jones’ biology, or bad luck or something, hmm? .

I was referring to the bits where they said the tests pointed to Jones receiving no performance enhancing benefits. In that thread about Jones' failures someone posted about baseball players pulsing for the same metabolite as Jones. I'm not going to pretend I remember the detail, but it made me think.

If reading the article I posted isn’t enough for you, nothing will be

Oh yeah, check out my username, I legitimately couldn't give a fuck if people cheat. Jones is in my uppermost echelon of fighters I've seen, but I fully respect if his (non-PE ) PED violations violate someone's criteria for GOAT

 

[ferrisjso]

Jon refused to fight Chael on short notice and a whole event had to be scrapped. Chael Sonnen at LHW, and he refused to fight him. The dude is mentally weak and has been abusing steroids and drugs his whole career. I would be suprised if he ever fights at HW, or at all for that matter

You mean when Hendo tried to be a warrior and not disclose his injury until it was too late?

Also UFC 151 was the first event cancelled because the card was so weak that without the main event it'd be an insult to ask anyone to pay for it. If Dana had made UFC 151 a better card the event would not have had to be scrapped because of one fight. Jones didn't ask them to do that.

Also UFC 152 was 4 weeks later and every notable LHW turned down that fight and he ended up fighting Trtor. The UFC was asking Jones to fight Chael on like 8,9 days notice. But the other top LHW's(Machida and Shogun) don't get shit for turning the 4 week fight down only Jones does.

 

[Post 2 Decision]

Only one NC.

The other one is UFC 200 for dick pills and I'm not going to validate UFC 232 conspiracy theories by refuting them anymore.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Is there anything he could do at HW to convince you otherwise?


It seems to me that almost every argument against his place as #1 rests on the positive steroid tests. I am not making this thread to argue that is invalid. I am not even arguing that Jones is the GOAT. I am simply asking those who rank someone else higher, if he has a path to reach that #1 rank in your mind.


A win over Stipe is easily dismissed due to age and cumulative damage

Gane got out-wrestled by Francis

Outpointing Francis, Lewis, Tai, could be downplayed due to relative slowness and lack of diverse striking

A win over Blaydes or Aspinall would be impressive, but they are ranked lower in the top 10


If he comes back and tests clean, what HW wins would cement his status as the greatest, in your eyes?

First off, your contextualization of the question is great (i.e., to avoid a flame/whine war).

Second, moving up to HW and beating a guy, especially a non-champ (and even then....) doesn't do much in the GOAT spectrum: he'd have to move up and clear house. Do that, and I don't care who you are, you're GOAT material (meaning, clear out your own division, move up, clear out another division). There are plenty of lackluster and meaningless wins that Jones (or any other elite LHW) could get at HW that would/should have no bearing on GOAT discussion.