All Time GOAT poll

[Dr Guildo]

Fine, then you should not speak about Pride fighters : fighting in an organization without drug testing is even a bigger asterix

I don't agree. Most Pride fighters probably took PEDs but then it was an even playfield.

Problem for Jon Jones is he popped in an organization where other good fighters hasn't popped. Quite obvious he used them while others did not, or even if they did he obviously used them more.

PED-talk aside, in my opinion he still would have needed some years undefeated at HW to be comparable with some other fighters. If he wanted to test himself against the best he should have fight at HW, he could have done but didn't. That helds him outside of GOAT-conversation aswell for me.

 

[SherdogFan23]

Anything Jones does at HW will be unrelated to GOAT. His prime is over.

The only thing to gain will be some exciting fights (and money for him) if he can fit in the mix and we get some good fights to watch

 

[Yellowcrab]

I don't agree. Most Pride fighters probably took PEDs but then it was an even playfield.

Not it isn't unless all fighters have access to the same products and same medical staff.

If he wanted to test himself against the best he should have fight at HW, he could have done but didn't. That helds him outside of GOAT-conversation aswell for me.

The size difference between LHW and HW is greater than that between other categories : https://www.ladbrokes.com.au/betting-info/ufc/weight-divisions/

It's a much bigger step : max weight in LHW = 205 lbs / in HW = 265 lbs

Anyway, what are your examples ? GSP with only 1 fight in WW ?

That's what you call testing yourself against the best ? I mean, it's still impressive and better than nothing, but you don't test yourself against the best with just 1 fight in another category.

 

[SherdogFan23]

I don't agree. Most Pride fighters probably took PEDs but then it was an even playfield.

Problem for Jon Jones is he popped in an organization where other good fighters hasn't popped. Quite obvious he used them while others did not, or even if they did he obviously used them more.

PED-talk aside, in my opinion he still would have needed some years undefeated at HW to be comparable with some other fighters. If he wanted to test himself against the best he should have fight at HW, he could have done but didn't. That helds him outside of GOAT-conversation aswell for me.

Not true at all. In fact Sonnen and Belfort (two of Jones competitors in his prime both got busted for PED's. Jones did not fail a single drug test during that same period. His first failure wasn't even a real PED that gives an advantage on muscles,etc. It was cocaine which was only tested as positive during "out of competition" before the first Cormier fight. Jones never took real PEDs until planning for the second Cormier fight where it was clear by looking at his body (and the fight result) that he did something to his body. This was also after his personal life was in nightmare mode and likely screwing up his training, etc.

 

[pick999]

I always think could khabib beat a prime dc? A prime Gus? A prime glover?

 

[Candy Routure]

Jones is GOAT assbag. No one is denying that!

As for HW..

My calendar doesn’t go to maybe..

 

[hymn]

Sambo competitions in Russia ?

international sambo federation competitions in Europe outside Russia as well

Anyway i think the big names got some protection since people pay to view them.
Let's say Conor cheats, he has a better chance to get some tolerance compared to Leon Edwards for instance.

this is probably true and tbh it's arguable how much positive tests count against someone cause we don't really know how many of their opponents are doing something and getting away with it, the whole goat debate is pretty subjective depending on what factors you want to weigh more. Jon is just frustrating imo cause despite being one of the obviously most talented guys in the sport there's rarely an entirely fair fight with him between the ped questions and the eyepokes that he got away with for years

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2020/6/...romoter-detained-drug-trafficking-russia-news : "Oleg Raevsky, the former promoter and manager of Alexander Emelianenko, has been detained by police for drug trafficking."
Another unlucky coincidence i guess

As far as I know, this manager wasn't associated with Fedor. I haven't followed their personal life but last I heard Fedor and Aleks weren't close anymore due to Aleks's life choices (he's "dead" to Fedor) and the people one brother hangs out with aren't the same as the other.

To be fair, Fedor could have been completely clean his whole career, but it seems unlikely to me.

He might've been natural but as far as his fights in Pride go, imho it doesn't really matter because it wouldn't have been cheating under those rules. Similar to how Jon's habitual eyepoking wouldn't count against him if he fought in an org where digit skullfucking your opponent was mutually allowed, but...

 

[Bend NvR Break]

PEDs is like weight cutting at this point. No one cuts weight anymore to get an advantage. People cut weight to not be at a disadvantage.

When will People realize more fighters than not are on something. FFS nate Diaz failed a test. And i don't think anything was tainted. UFC covered that one up.

 

[Dr Guildo]

Not it isn't unless all fighters have access to the same products and same medical staff.

That is true.

 

[krelianx]

I think considering what we know about what happened to fighters who were on steroids and went clean we simply cannot assume he would have had the success he had had he fought clean. And we know how Jon has performed since not pissing hot.

His last three performances have been the worst of his career, with two arguable decisions. The performance slump from his earlier career to his last performances is too obvious.

 

[rtodd]

Jon Jones is a piece of shit and the lowest form of life but he is the best fighter I've ever seen in mma.

He's physically gifted and a natural fighter with skills that carry him when he's lazy.

He deserves credit in the argument as the GOAT.

Prime Jones beats Prime anyone EASILY in his weight class.

He partied for days before fighting Gus and still beat him.

But he got popped for PED's.

Anderson got popped for PED's

GSP hasn't and retired on top.

GSP is the GOAT with Jones as a VERY CLOSE second.

If PED's weren't part of the argument he'd be #1.

 

[BFoe]

Not true at all. In fact Sonnen and Belfort (two of Jones competitors in his prime both got busted for PED's. Jones did not fail a single drug test during that same period. His first failure wasn't even a real PED that gives an advantage on muscles,etc. It was cocaine which was only tested as positive during "out of competition" before the first Cormier fight. Jones never took real PEDs until planning for the second Cormier fight where it was clear by looking at his body (and the fight result) that he did something to his body. This was also after his personal life was in nightmare mode and likely screwing up his training, etc.

But in that cocaine test, Jones’ T levels were suspiciously low, indicative of having done a cycle. Later, Jones popped for letrazole and clomiphene, also indicative of having done a cycle. Then the failure for turinabol, the multiple times “pulsing”…. It’s obvious that Jones has been a cheat for a very long time.

 

[Captain Herb]

Not true at all. In fact Sonnen and Belfort (two of Jones competitors in his prime both got busted for PED's. Jones did not fail a single drug test during that same period.

Belfort was on legal trt during that period (like it or not) and wasn't busted for anything. Sonnen was as big a roid head as Jones.

 

[Do better]

GOATS don't tap to strikes from midgets.
GOATS don't get subbed by one dimensional wrestlers.
GOAT don't lose to Hendricks.

GSP GOAT my ass.

You sound like you need a hug, get help

 

[icemun]

You know nothing about me and the fact that you resort to personal attacks while passing your biased opinions as facts show that you have no arguments left.

Good bye.

I do know about you from the MMA knowledge or lack thereof you expressed.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

LOL found the salty leftard

LOL, the insecure, bitter, and defensive Conservative just outed himself. Well done. I wasn't even referring to politics, just the universal conservative, selfish mindset that many have, including you apparently.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

This has nothing to do with politics, idiot.

I'm not American, idiot, and not talking about politics (as you can see from the example I give). I'm talking about the universal, historical, and transcultural differences between traditional/conservative way of thinking and liberal/progressive. Not everything revolves around your sensitive feelings and projections about U politics. Idiot. Accusing others of what you yourself are guilty of/fear is classic conservative behavior, now or in Ancient Greece.

 

[Deceasedxo]

I'm not American, idiot, and not talking about politics (as you can see from the example I give). I'm talking about the universal, historical, and transcultural differences between traditional/conservative way of thinking and liberal/progressive. Not everything revolves around your sensitive feelings and projections about U politics. Idiot. Accusing others of what you yourself are guilty of/fear is classic conservative behavior, now or in Ancient Greece.

Touch grass.

 

[Timothé432]

Having Johnson over Aldo is dishespetchful. He beat mainly men equivalents of soccer moms.

its true

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Touch grass.

Great retort, idiot.