Economy A little context on Canada and "free trade"

[JudoThrowFiasco]

As a Canadian, it's honestly been a little embarrassing watching so many of my fellow Canadians coming down with the vapours about Trump's tariffs. Is the guy unhinged and chaos personified? Yup. Is Canada, of all nations, in any position to lecture anyone on free trade? Gawd no. We're one of the worst, most petty, protectionist sorts of nation in the developed world... to the expense of our citizens.

Our telecoms are protected from competition so that we are left paying double and triple what people in other countries pay.

Our prices on dairy products are fixed at artificially high prices and American's shut out of the market so that households are stuck paying double what they ought for milk and dairy dependent businesses from pizza joints to ice cream stands to cafes have a near impossible task in attempting to squeeze out a profit margin.

Canadians are entirely left at the mercy of a very few large (often predatory) banks.

We are forced to watch, listen to, and pay for "Canadian Content" that many people don't want rather than international content that many people do want.

Our government allows big lumber to cut on crown land for free, making small woodlot ownership and management a completely futile endeavor.

And, perhaps worst of all, our provinces are in continued and constant trade wars, placing tariffs on one another. You read that right. Not between countries, but between provinces in the same country.

And now, all of that BS is being brought to the fore due to Trump's BS, and we're supposed to be all "ra ra, Canada!" about it. Like any of this would have ever changed if Trump's acute bout of nonsense hadn't highlighted our own longstanding chronic nonsense. Just terrible, terrible people all around. Any Canadian being sucked into this WWE style rage bait should be embarrassed. These guys have been selling us out for decades, and now they want a pat on the back for "taking on Trump," while they try to get us to ignore the fact that they've been force feeding us the exact same garbage that Trump has now placed on the menu.

Video evidence of the above:

I know youre a dedicated Liberal but take a moment to see what ideological ilk is attacking you for simply giving an astute overview of some of the intra-protectionist policies within the Canadian scope and just have that in the back of your mind when you vote.

 

[Kassitus]

Trump really brings the low info low effort posts out of liberals lol

To address the OP, I have also not seen anything quite like it and it's an interesting example of how human biological evolution can't keep up with societal evolution. People are manipulated by clickbait journalism to feel like the chief of the rival tribe has sworn a blood oath to conquer us. Largely we respond like clockwork without much reflection on the bigger picture.

 

[Prologue]

I think the issue here is that most tariffs are targetted and designed with purpose. I imagine most, if not all, of these canadian tariffs mentioned were negotiated in USCMA, the deal that Trump himself made. Reneging on the agreements he signed off on to deliver sweeping tariffs across the board for the purpose of economic pain is still egregious, even when some of the points in OP are valid (telecomms in my mind). The half measures and backtracking only makes it worse.

There's going to be give and take, but ultimately these are designed in a way so that there is some mutual understanding and benefit. It's pretty much the trade infrastructure the US designed to put them at the heart of global trade and make them the superpower they are. Upending it is going to be ugly, not just for Canadians, but for Americans too.

And yes, I can understand the frustration of our political climate being dominated by all this but I'm not surprised people are rethinking their choices now that we're getting a taste.

My $.02 (currently $0.014 USD)

 

[jeremyemilio]

Might as well ask Ukrainians to stop focusing on the Russian invasion and focus on their education lol

No shit Sherlock why wouldn’t they focus on the main point of Canada lol

Why the fuck would they talk about phone bills when you have your neighbour trying to crush you? Are you slow?

I'm Canadian. We're a week away from voting. I listed a number of issues that we have been dealing with for a long time. It's one or two posters focusing on phone bills. I chose trade issues because that's the issue that Trumps actions have brough to the fore. But as I've laid out, it is our own government(s) (both parties) that have been crushing us with these trade policies and structures. For decades. And they've been using Trump to get them off the hook and sidestep accountability with Canadian voters. That's a problem and falling for it just gets us more of the same.

 

[Rational Poster]

As a Canadian, it's honestly been a little embarrassing watching so many of my fellow Canadians coming down with the vapours about Trump's tariffs. Is the guy unhinged and chaos personified? Yup. Is Canada, of all nations, in any position to lecture anyone on free trade? Gawd no. We're one of the worst, most petty, protectionist sorts of nation in the developed world... to the expense of our citizens.

Our telecoms are protected from competition so that we are left paying double and triple what people in other countries pay.

Our prices on dairy products are fixed at artificially high prices and American's shut out of the market so that households are stuck paying double what they ought for milk and dairy dependent businesses from pizza joints to ice cream stands to cafes have a near impossible task in attempting to squeeze out a profit margin.

Canadians are entirely left at the mercy of a very few large (often predatory) banks.

We are forced to watch, listen to, and pay for "Canadian Content" that many people don't want rather than international content that many people do want.

Our government allows big lumber to cut on crown land for free, making small woodlot ownership and management a completely futile endeavor.

And, perhaps worst of all, our provinces are in continued and constant trade wars, placing tariffs on one another. You read that right. Not between countries, but between provinces in the same country.

And now, all of that BS is being brought to the fore due to Trump's BS, and we're supposed to be all "ra ra, Canada!" about it. Like any of this would have ever changed if Trump's acute bout of nonsense hadn't highlighted our own longstanding chronic nonsense. Just terrible, terrible people all around. Any Canadian being sucked into this WWE style rage bait should be embarrassed. These guys have been selling us out for decades, and now they want a pat on the back for "taking on Trump," while they try to get us to ignore the fact that they've been force feeding us the exact same garbage that Trump has now placed on the menu.

Video evidence of the above:

Canada's trade policy is forced into protectionism because their largest trading partner is also the largest economy on earth by a lot and because their largest trading partner is one of the most subsidized on earth.

This was understood by the people that originally negotiated the NAFTA agreement, but seems to be lost by most today.

 

[jeremyemilio]

This is the part that you keep missing. American carriers start with low prices to drive out competition and lock in customers, then they raise prices beyond market rates as competition is snuffed out. As I said previously, it's no skin off my nose if American carriers operate in Canada, but don't come crying in 10 years if you end up with even shittier plans because you were counting on one monopolist to save you from another, instead of addressing the root cause on a regulatory level.

Again, the US does both. We directly subsidize farmers, as well as guarantee minimum wholesale prices, which in turn translate into minimum retail prices. That is just as much price fixing as in Canada, the only difference is the US is so much more willing to spend for farmers that we keep the price floor lower and offset it with more subsidies.

Let me ask this, how would you describe the American government's support for dairy? What are the main policy levers.

My guy, America's Gini coefficient is almost 50% more than Canada's. I assure you the average American knows far more than the average Canadian about getting shit on by regressive policies.

But why are we talking about the US? At all?

That's the whole point of the thread. It's federal election time in Canada and you are here posting and reposting in some odd sustained effort to try to convince me that as Canadians we shouldn't be focused on Canadian public policy and governance because of some comparable things that are happening in the US?

I sincerely can't even wrap my head around your argument.

 

[jeremyemilio]

I think the issue here is that most tariffs are targetted and designed with purpose. I imagine most, if not all, of these canadian tariffs mentioned were negotiated in USCMA, the deal that Trump himself made. Reneging on the agreements he signed off on to deliver sweeping tariffs across the board for the purpose of economic pain is still egregious, even when some of the points in OP are valid (telecomms in my mind). The half measures and backtracking only makes it worse.

There's going to be give and take, but ultimately these are designed in a way so that there is some mutual understanding and benefit. It's pretty much the trade infrastructure the US designed to put them at the heart of global trade and make them the superpower they are. Upending it is going to be ugly, not just for Canadians, but for Americans too.

And yes, I can understand the frustration of our political climate being dominated by all this but I'm not surprised people are rethinking their choices now that we're getting a taste.

My $.02 (currently $0.014 USD)

Yes. I agree completely that Trump's trade "policies" are chaotic and intentionally punitive.

It's just so disheartening that all of this has given our own politicians (all parties) this cynical path to winning votes by simply pointing south, rather than address their own governance, and the ways that their own policies have chipped away at our quality of life for decades now, selling us out to special interests and large corporations.

 

[jeremyemilio]

My guy, America's Gini coefficient is almost 50% more than Canada's. I assure you the average American knows far more than the average Canadian about getting shit on by regressive policies.

Canadian median incomes are lower in every province in Canada than US median incomes in your poorest state, Mississippi.

That's not the average. That's the median. And that's before adjusting for the exchange rate, which is a significant consideration when you acknowledge just how much of what we all purchase is international. By any comparative measure, against Americans, Canadians are poor. The idea that we shouldn't bother talking about that in a Canadian federal election is ludicrous.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Canada's trade policy is forced into protectionism because their largest trading partner is also the largest economy on earth by a lot and because their largest trading partner is one of the most subsidized on earth.

This was understood by the people that originally negotiated the NAFTA agreement, but seems to be lost by most today.

That doesn't begin to explain (or excuse) trade barriers between provinces and other policies that have been put in place by all parties (well... okay, not all... but certainly the Liberals, the Conservatives, and the Bloc) to protect special (often corporate) interests at the expense of Canadian citizens.

 

[Prologue]

Yes. I agree completely that Trump's trade "policies" are chaotic and intentionally punitive.

It's just so disheartening that all of this has given our own politicians (all parties) this cynical path to winning votes by simply pointing south, rather than address their own governance, and the ways that their own policies have chipped away at our quality of life for decades now, selling us out to special interests and large corporations.

"Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."

The Other Trudeau



I hear you though.

 

[Natural Order]

Canada's trade policy is forced into protectionism because their largest trading partner is also the largest economy on earth by a lot and because their largest trading partner is one of the most subsidized on earth.

This was understood by the people that originally negotiated the NAFTA agreement, but seems to be lost by most today.

Combined with our paltry population, as a comparative. Double whammy.