“You Cannot Hire American Here”

[Riptide]

You know what would really be something, though? If all the people who liked the posts saying "Well, these businesses shouldn't exist if they hire illegals" would either:

a. Actually not support any businesses that hire illegals. (Hint: they wouldn't be able to eat at any restaurants-- or shop at grocery stores for that matter.)
b. Insist that the politicians that they vote for enforce the laws they say they care so much about. Oh, but that's right, for all the nativist rhetoric, the GOP is squarely in the pocket of its corporate donors.

Cliffs: You'll do fookin nutin.

If there’s no illegals driving wages down they will go up and people will want to pick those jobs. Nativism has nothing to do with this.

 

[Riptide]

Based on my lifetime of experience in the manufacturing sector, I tend to disagree with the common assessment that immigrants are better workers. Speaking in broad generalities, they tend to be slower and less skilled than the equivalently qualified generic American worker. What they are, however, is willing to endure borderline abusive working arrangements. One of my peer manufacturers has a plant in Dallas made up of a largely immigrant workforce. They do things like suddenly require extra long hours and weekend shifts during busy periods then cut their hours short during slower periods. I heard they just announced the factory will be closed out of the blue for a week coming up with all the workers sent home with no pay. Mind you, we’re talking about people living from paycheck to paycheck in the first place. They’ll then be expected to show up after subsisting on who knows what for a week as if nothing had happened. My factory is in Vermont where there is no appreciable immigrant population. Try that shit in VT and your employees will have found different jobs at the end of the off week. And that’s how it’s SUPPOSED to work. A competitive labor market supports wages/benefits/conditions. A labor market made non-competitive by flooding it with desperate immigrant laborers erodes those gains.

It boggles my mind that so-called progressives are now the ones defending these kinds of practices. Thirty years ago you’d be called a callous right wing ass hole for making the same arguments I hear Democrats make on this forum every day.

This is how it is irl.

 

[luckyshot]

If there’s no illegals driving wages down they will go up and people will want to pick those jobs. Nativism has nothing to do with this.

What jobs? Wages would go up, prices would go up, many businesses would close, and the economy would shrink.

It’s so funny that the same people who generally oppose raising the minimum wage to a living wage because it would “kill businesses,” once illegals are involved, all of a sudden think businesses can fork out wages any time they want.

 

[ocfightfan]

What we need to do is import millions of people from south of the border for our construction industry and millions more for tech from India so that no American can work again. Then they can all vote Democrat.

 

[MikeMcMann]

What jobs? Wages would go up, prices would go up, many businesses would close, and the economy would shrink.

It’s so funny that the same people who generally oppose raising the minimum wage to a living wage because it would “kill businesses,” once illegals are involved, all of a sudden think businesses can fork out wages any time they want.

yup. People are naive to how many jobs would simply disappear in the US and instead they think employers will just raise wages across the board.

You take American wine, and there is not the price elasticity for the makers simply to raise the prices to absorb higher labour costs. People will buy the other comparable but cheaper wines from other countries and that industry would die in N.America without migrant workers.

There are all sorts of industries like that would just die. So those companies would be paying no local taxes or any of the other benefits gained by having them in the community.

This issue of illegal workers ends tomorrow if gov't makes it a crime for corporations to hire them, and after X number of offense the company loses its Charter. No companies would risk that. But gov't knows those business need the workers so they dont do that and instead just punish the workers when it makes good politics while letting more flow in.

 

[luckyshot]

What we need to do is import millions of people from south of the border for our construction industry and millions more for tech from India so that no American can work again. Then they can all vote Democrat.

They come, businesses hire them, the gov’t turns a blind eye to those businesses, and American consumers enjoy the benefit.

Yeah, it may hurt some American workers, but guess what, we made the decision that America was going to be a great place to be a consumer and a shitty place to be a worker a LONG time ago.

About the time of the Taft-Hartley Act, right to work (cheap) laws, and almost a century of GOP union busting.

 

[nhbbear]

Ehh, I say it is an employer’s choice who to hire, but if they have a strict policy about not hiring Americans, that’s pretty fucked up. They could raid the place-which is what happened to my favorite Mexican place a few years ago, or, the citizens could choose to boycott the place. I would rather see the second option because I hate that we would send hardworking immigrants home over the violent gang members and all around shitheads that seem to slip through the cracks.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Well, I guess there's a reason everything in America is so cheap.

You guys need a backup plan for cheap labour once all the illegals are deported. I think I've got a solution.

Yeah, in about every corner of America, uttering the term "Just hire a coon" is not going to work out too well for you. At best it's an angry conversation with the possibility of being put in the dreaded hand on your neck position.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Ehh, I say it is an employer’s choice who to hire, but if they have a strict policy about not hiring Americans, that’s pretty fucked up. They could raid the place-which is what happened to my favorite Mexican place a few years ago, or, the citizens could choose to boycott the place. I would rather see the second option because I hate that we would send hardworking immigrants home over the violent gang members and all around shitheads that seem to slip through the cracks.

How many Mazatlan restaurants do you figure cops have decided to raid after getting ass melting diarrhea from?

 

[Goonerview]

Liberals love to exploit the immigrants they “care so much about”

 

[7437]

That is the same sentiment we heard about workers rights, slavery, minimum wage, osha, and anything else.

They will be fine. Any employer with any illegal employee should have an absolute hammer dropped on them. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

[panamaican]

Fair, but if you offshore everything then Americans cant buy your product because they have no jobs. The whole idea behind outsourcing is that you pay very little and then bring the product back into the state where people have disposable income.

I completely understand the idea behind outsourcing. Which is why my point isn't about the rights/wrongs of outsourcing but about the unfair market conditions you're creating when you tell one company they must adhere to the dometic wage market but tell another company that they can bypass it.

By the "where people have disposable income" argument, you should actually support illegal immigrant labor over outsourcing because at least illegal immigrant employees are spending a portion of their income within the country. They are buying food, shelter and various goods within the country from Americans. Outsourced labor is only spending their income in their outsourced nations.

Anyway, my main point is, as stated, if you let some companies beat the domestic wage market then everyone should be allowed to beat the domestic wage market. You cannot tell someone they must raise their labor costs while their competition is allowed to keep theirs low.

 

[Riptide]

So no illegals we get paid more. Cool story.

Wich previous ban account troll are you zip?

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I completely understand the idea behind outsourcing. Which is why my point isn't about the rights/wrongs of outsourcing but about the unfair market conditions you're creating when you tell one company they must adhere to the dometic wage market but tell another company that they can bypass it.

By the "where people have disposable income" argument, you should actually support illegal immigrant labor over outsourcing because at least illegal immigrant employees are spending a portion of their income within the country. They are buying food, shelter and various goods within the country from Americans. Outsourced labor is only spending their income in their outsourced nations.

Anyway, my main point is, as stated, if you let some companies beat the domestic wage market then everyone should be allowed to beat the domestic wage market. You cannot tell someone they must raise their labor costs while their competition is allowed to keep theirs low.

I believe this thread; or at least where I jumped in, was talking about illegal workers in the restuarant industry.

I have issues with outsourcing as well, but if you want to make it illegal I'd suggest that you pressure your Congressman and Senator to do that.

 

[Willy Womack]

Some great points about how mass immigration drives down wages.

It also drives up the cost of housing drastically. I remember a bit of fear mongering on Vice News where they stated that ILLEGALS are estimated to contribute 1.3 TRILLION to the housing market. It's funny because they were trying to get support for these guys but that backfired dramatically in my mind. We need very strict immigration standards for our own quality of life, though some average joes like me will prefer more crowding and more expensive housing because "racism." Useful idiots imo.

 

[panamaican]

I believe this thread; or at least where I jumped in, was talking about illegal workers in the restuarant industry.

I have issues with outsourcing as well, but if you want to make it illegal I'd suggest that you pressure your Congressman and Senator to do that.

I understand re: the restaurant industry. But I don't draw a distinction here. From an economics point of view, they're all pulling from the same domestic wage market.

Let me explain: If we tell the restaurant owner to raise his prices to cover American labor, it's going to cut into his bottom line. It will make his business less economically attractive for him to run. It will lower his take home pay and thus his standard of living. Meanwhile, the guy running a retail operation doesn't have to raise his prices. He gets to keep his expenses lower than the market and thus keep more of the revenue for himself (relative to hiring American). His standard of living gets to artificially elevated relative to the employer who's dealing with American labor.

That difference manifests itself in all sorts of other areas - housing, savings, investments, etc.

When people talk about the restaurant industry, that's fine, but we're still discussing businesses based on how the domestic labor market is impacted and how the owners of the businesses are impacted. And for that, I can't look at restaurants in isolation and say "That industry needs to hire American because it's easy for me to target them but the other industries where I don't see their labor force...meh, those owners can have a competitive advantage in lifestyle."

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I understand re: the restaurant industry. But I don't draw a distinction here. From an economics point of view, they're all pulling from the same domestic wage market.

Let me explain: If we tell the restaurant owner to raise his prices to cover American labor, it's going to cut into his bottom line. It will make his business less economically attractive for him to run. It will lower his take home pay and thus his standard of living. Meanwhile, the guy running a retail operation doesn't have to raise his prices. He gets to keep his expenses lower than the market and thus keep more of the revenue for himself (relative to hiring American). His standard of living gets to artificially elevated relative to the employer who's dealing with American labor.

That difference manifests itself in all sorts of other areas - housing, savings, investments, etc.

When people talk about the restaurant industry, that's fine, but we're still discussing businesses based on how the domestic labor market is impacted and how the owners of the businesses are impacted. And for that, I can't look at restaurants in isolation and say "That industry needs to hire American because it's easy for me to target them but the other industries where I don't see their labor force...meh, those owners can have a competitive advantage in lifestyle."

I get all of that, but no one is forcing Bob to be a restaurateur; he's free to open a retail business.

 

[panamaican]

I get all of that, but no one is forcing Bob to be a restaurateur; he's free to open a retail business.

Sure, if you want to disregard the part of the conversation about bypassing the dometic wage market.

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't play lip service to the American worker and domestic wages, blah, blah blah, while excusing one form of skipping the American worker and fixating on the other. It's disingenuous to my way of thinking.

More importantly, if people are going to fixate on one, it should be on outsourcing because illegal immigrants spend money in our economy while outsourced labor does not.

This is one of areas where the general hue and cry largely misses all of the economic points that they claim to support.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Sure, if you want to disregard the part of the conversation about bypassing the dometic wage market.

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't play lip service to the American worker and domestic wages, blah, blah blah, while excusing one form of skipping the American worker and fixating on the other. It's disingenuous to my way of thinking.

More importantly, if people are going to fixate on one, it should be on outsourcing because illegal immigrants spend money in our economy while outsourced labor does not.

This is one of areas where the general hue and cry largely misses all of the economic points that they claim to support.

Just to be clear, you're advocating to ignore the law because you don't like another another aspect of our laws.

 

[badascan]

I worked for a company that hired illegals and fellons. The fucking job sucked and the employees were way underpaid, the reason they hired illegals was because they were there to be taken advantage of where citizens have a position to defend themselves from what amounts to slave labor.

They hired them because those people, felons and illegals couldn't get other jobs so they scraped the bottom of the barrel and would work anywhere. It's all perspective but in principle the company's are breaking laws to circumvent their responsibilities to appropriately compensate...