Discussion in 'The War Room' started by luckyshot, Aug 21, 2019.
What a crazy turn of affairs that this OP is now the default position of American progressives.
you sure about that?
democrats: Americans are too lazy to do certain type of jobs n that’s why illegals are needed N are willing to work for way less than average American
also democrat: universal minimal wage is needed to prevent greedy capitalists from exploiting n underpaying his/hers employees
still democrats: universal free healthcare care is needed n should be given to everybody regardless of their legal status
People that don't know how to cook and the amount of them out there kinda blow my mind.
You beat me to it.
Legal and illegal immigrants make up 17% of the labor force. Your anecdotal evidence about immigrants working the hardest and fastest is absolute nonsense.
Great, so where does the fight for doubling the federal minimum wage fit into this equation? How is the same side trying to juggle both that employers don't pay enough and need to more than double their wages for low skilled jobs, and also that we need more illegals because businesses would shut down if they had to pay what Americans demand.
If we're going to tackle just this argument, then illegals are good for business only as long as they're illegal. If there was a "pathway to citizenship", they would both demand the same wages the current Americans do and it would make welfare benefits more easily accessible.
Killed @luckyshot thread within 10 posts. lol
Why do you think their labor is less valuable
People will afford food and cut back on the latest iphone. Or they'll force their employers to give better incentives or else they'll find jobs that offer them.
Fair, but if you offshore everything then Americans cant buy your product because they have no jobs. The whole idea behind outsourcing is that you pay very little and then bring the product back into the state where people have disposable income.
There is a line in season 2 of Sons of Anarchy where a Neo-Nazi named Darby is running a carpentry business. All his employees are Mexicans. The true believer Neo-Nazi, Weston (played by Henry Rollins for extra wtf-ness) calls him on it and Darby responds:
"I can't afford the white guys"
Weston responds with some:
"Never put money before race"
sorta thing.... SEASON 2 AIRED BACK IN 2009!
Again, if you need to hire illegal workers to be competitive/profitable then you have a failing business model.
I'll hapily stipulate that most immigrant are much better workers than Americans - that's more of an indictment of American's sense of entitlement than anything else, but also who would risk their life crossing a desert to get here a be a lazy ass?
Some Americans dumb enough to believe that they are the reason the $30 p/hr + blue collar jobs are gone.
Wjile that's patially true, republicans were about to pass a path to citizenship until the base rose up and said not until you stop mass immigration and near-open borders.
Based on my lifetime of experience in the manufacturing sector, I tend to disagree with the common assessment that immigrants are better workers. Speaking in broad generalities, they tend to be slower and less skilled than the equivalently qualified generic American worker. What they are, however, is willing to endure borderline abusive working arrangements. One of my peer manufacturers has a plant in Dallas made up of a largely immigrant workforce. They do things like suddenly require extra long hours and weekend shifts during busy periods then cut their hours short during slower periods. I heard they just announced the factory will be closed out of the blue for a week coming up with all the workers sent home with no pay. Mind you, we’re talking about people living from paycheck to paycheck in the first place. They’ll then be expected to show up after subsisting on who knows what for a week as if nothing had happened. My factory is in Vermont where there is no appreciable immigrant population. Try that shit in VT and your employees will have found different jobs at the end of the off week. And that’s how it’s SUPPOSED to work. A competitive labor market supports wages/benefits/conditions. A labor market made non-competitive by flooding it with desperate immigrant laborers erodes those gains.
It boggles my mind that so-called progressives are now the ones defending these kinds of practices. Thirty years ago you’d be called a callous right wing ass hole for making the same arguments I hear Democrats make on this forum every day.
reported for no pics of the daughter/your sister
Sounds like some robber baron bullshit.
The so-called "blue collar" party of the United States won't survive, if they stand for this.
You know what would really be something, though? If all the people who liked the posts saying "Well, these businesses shouldn't exist if they hire illegals" would either:
a. Actually not support any businesses that hire illegals. (Hint: they wouldn't be able to eat at any restaurants-- or shop at grocery stores for that matter.)
b. Insist that the politicians that they vote for enforce the laws they say they care so much about. Oh, but that's right, for all the nativist rhetoric, the GOP is squarely in the pocket of its corporate donors.
Cliffs: You'll do fookin nutin.
How about pay a living wage, and charge prices to support that?
You know American made, union made clothes can't compete either, that doesn't mean Americans won't work in textile factories. They just won't do it for vulture wages.
Where I live pizza prices vary wildly. And the quality of the ingredients is virtually identical.
So I wonder...
Joe's Pizza sells a large one topping for $5. While Sam's Pizza sells a large one topping for $17.00. Both do great business and both Joe's and Sam's pay virtually the same wages to their workers.
So if the owner of Joe's is making a healthy and acceptable profit selling $5 pies imagine how much more he could pay his worker's per hour selling $17 pies without a change to his margins.
Separate names with a comma.