training of the pros mma

[TheeFaulted]

True, but many people who get serious into deadlifting and squatting will put on body weight.

And those who compete in weight class sports know how to train strength while not gaining excess mass.

 

[ripskater]

And those who compete in weight class sports know how to train strength while not gaining excess mass.

I agree that some do.

Some guys do struggle to stay in certain weight classes though. They may or may not be related to the way they are training.

 

[TheeFaulted]

Because he was arguably the greatest mma fighter ever.

And his numbers in the deadlift and squat were probably not all that good.

If we're including former champions, then your previous statement makes no sense.

John Jones is the only beltholder that I've seen doing deadlifts and squats.

Obviously a large number of former champions trained in squat, bench, and deadlift. Are you implying that Lesnar, Mir, Randleman, Couture, Hughes, Sherk, Cormier, Weidman, Bisping, Lawler, Hendricks, Woodley, Shamrock, Ortiz, etc didn't strength train with squat, bench and deadlift?

 

[ripskater]

If we're including former champions, then your previous statement makes no sense.


Obviously a large number of former champions trained in squat, bench, and deadlift. Are you implying that Lesnar, Mir, Randleman, Couture, Hughes, Sherk, Cormier, Weidman, Bisping, Lawler, Hendricks, Woodley, Shamrock, Ortiz, etc didn't strength train with squat, bench and deadlift?

I'm sure many fighters have tried it. Do they continue it? Are there numbers in dead and back squat all that good? Many times not. But some are not good at it, some don't do it, and some are good at it.

You will see beltholders that aren't good at it.

 

[TheeFaulted]

I'm sure many fighters have tried it. Do they continue it? Are there numbers in dead and back squat all that good? Many times not. But some are not good at it, some don't do it, and some are good at it.

Again, you continually move the goalpost. Your initial assertion was that you rarely see beltholders strength train with the power lifts. Clearly a vast majority of beltholders have trained with the power lifts to build strength. Obviously any athlete, even powerlifters themselves, are going to periodize their training and not just squat, bench and deadlift 52 weeks out of the year. Obviously some athletes are going to be better and strong than others.

 

[ripskater]

Your initial assertion was that you rarely see beltholders strength train with the power lifts. Clearly a vast majority of beltholders have trained with the power lifts to build strength. Obviously any athlete, even powerlifters themselves, are going to periodize their training and not just squat, bench and deadlift 52 weeks out of the year. Obviously some athletes are going to be better and strong than others.

Yes you rarely see the belt holders doing deadlift and back squat.

And those that do it will often times not put much effort into it.

Anderson Silva was doing them with like 120 lbs and a band.

Frankie Edgar as shown tells us he can't even do traditional deadlift do to his back. He will put some wieght on a trap bar and jump with it sometimes. But these numbers are nothing special.

Some of You guys in this forum have better numbers than these beltholders.

 

[TheeFaulted]

Yes you rarely see the belt holders doing deadlift and back squat.

The vast majority of belt holders have put years into strength training with power lifts. Most are still doing them.

And those that do it will often times not put much effort into it.

I don't buy this at all. Every successful combat athlete I've worked with is putting much effort into any S&C work they're doing.

Anderson Silva was doing them with like 120 lbs and a band.

Yes, he did do them to attempt to get stronger.

Frankie Edgar as shown tells us he can't even do traditional deadlift do to his back. He will put some wieght on a trap bar and jump with it sometimes. But these numbers are nothing special.

Yes Frankie got hurt. How does that somehow negate the years he spent deadlifting?

Some of You guys in this forum have better numbers than these beltholders.

Again, no shit. Guys who spend their time just strength training are going to be stronger on average than those who compete in a different sport. Of course there are examples to the exact opposite. Guys like Lesnar are vastly stronger than those on this forum who spend their time on the powerlifts.

 

[ripskater]

The vast majority of belt holders have put years into strength training with power lifts. Most are still doing them.

As I said earlier, some have, some have not

I don't buy this at all. Every successful combat athlete I've worked with is putting much effort into any S&C work they're doing.

I'm talking about the champions, the beltholders. For example, Anderson Silva is not deadlifting 550 lbs cause he doesn't put in the effort to get there. And you only see him using 120 lbs with a band.

Yes Frankie got hurt. How does that somehow negate the years he spent deadlifting?

I don't negate what Frankie did in past years. That's not something I said.

Again, no shit. Guys who spend their time just strength training are going to be stronger on average than those who compete in a different sport.

That's what I said on the first page. I don't know why people are arguing with me over that.
However guys like Anderson Silva will be stronger in other ways.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I'm sure many have tried doing it. But many of them don't do deads and back squats. Like the Diaz brothers, I don't know if they deadlift and back squat. Probably not much if they did. Nick had a belt, and didn't strike me as the type to do it. There are many beltholders that you just don't see them doing these things.

Plenty of people got pissed in this thread when I said that many people in this forum have better deadlift squat numbers than the mma beltholders.

I think pretty much all top fighters are very strong. There is a difference between strength at deadlift and back squat and strength in the cage. Prime Anderson Silva would do what he wants if you get in his clench. You would say he's incredibly strong in the cage. But with deadlift and back squat, he would be unimpressive.

Holy shit. As others have already proven, most of them do squats and deadlifts. You keep saying this stupid shit that many don't, when it's not true. Just get over this stubborn desire you have to be right and learn something for once. Nearly every pro fighter has years of strength training under their belt, and almost all real S&C coaches will have you doing squat and deadlifts, or variations of because they recruit the most muscles and have simple progression schemes. Nobody is saying that you shouldn't train technique. Nobody is saying that you shouldn't do plyos and other things also. You don't see them doing those things because you don't watch them train 24/7. It's not exciting to watch so they don't put it on Youtube. You don't see 99% of their training, but this is the one thing you make that giant assumption for.

Who is mad that you said there are powerlifters on this forum with higher numbers than MMA pros? Nobody. They are mad that you're creating this illusion that they've never picked up a barbell in their life and couldn't squat their bodyweight or pick up a barbell with 45s on each side. It's blatantly false.

There is no difference in strength in a barbell movement and strength in a cage. Your body doesn't give a single fuck why it has to apply force, it just does it. Whether you are driving your back into a barbell in the bottom of a squat, or doing some other movement, it doesn't matter. You're mistaking technique for strength. Proper technique in the cage can give the illusion of strength, but it's not strength, it's proper leverage.Nobody is saying MMA fighters should have a 4x bodyweight deadlift or a 2.5x bodyweight squat. They are saying that a fighter who does deadlifts in his strength block will have a stronger posterior chain, which will allow him to produce more power than a fighter who doesn't deadlift.

And again, literally every other sport in the world that requires power uses fundamental sports science to better their athletes. They are all doing squats, deadlifts, and presses because they work. NFL players squat and deadlift. Hockey players squat and deadlift. Track and field athletes squat and deadlift. Baseball players squat and deadlift.

Literally all of them are doing these things because they work. If you want to increase power you need to increase speed and limit strength. The best way to increase limit strength is to pick up heavy things. The best way to keep track of how heavy the things you pick up are to standardize them in some sort of way, like a plate. The best way to load plates is with a barbell. Your body doesn't give a fuck how you add resistance, only that you give it resistance. The best way to load resistance for limit strength is with barbells.

And any athlete who is successful without using that training method is succeeding despite their training.


EDIT: Rico Verhoeven is the heavyweight champion of Glory kickboxing. Here he is doing barbell squats. He CLEARLY does them fairly often. I can continue to search the internet if you really need me to.





Jason Wilnis is the middleweight champion of Glory kickboxing. Here is a diary where he talks about a 480lb squat and a goal of 500lbs.

http://mmanext.com/480lb-squat-which-is-a-35lb-pr-gat-pmp-mission500-my-goal-is-to-squat-50/

 

[flikerstance]

i know for a fact tim kennedy deads more than 400 + he can dead lift within the 600 range iv trained with him he is by far the strongest man iv ever grappled and iv trained with lots of ufc guys at 185 i think he is the strongest not he most explosive but raw power im willing to bet on it

 

[ripskater]

i know for a fact tim kennedy deads more than 400 + he can dead lift within the 600 range iv trained with him he is by far the strongest man iv ever grappled and iv trained with lots of ufc guys at 185 i think he is the strongest not he most explosive but raw power im willing to bet on it

If so, then you've got hands on experience and felt the kind of strength needed to compete with the world class mma'ers.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

If so, then you've got hands on experience and felt the kind of strength needed to compete with the world class mma'ers.

Rip, stick to debating on subjects that are more up your alley, like explaining why all immigrants are smelly and out to destroy America or why the Bible is the cornerstone of all human decency and altruistic compassion.

You have no business discussing strength and conditioning whatsoever. And Jebus forbid some hapless noob happens to be in your vicinity at a gym (if, that is, you even lift) and takes advice from you.

 

[ripskater]

Rip, stick to debating on subjects that are more up your alley, like explaining why all immigrants are smelly and out to destroy America or why the Bible is the cornerstone of all human decency and altruistic compassion.

You have no business discussing strength and conditioning whatsoever. And Jebus forbid some hapless noob happens to be in your vicinity at a gym (if, that is, you even lift) and takes advice from you.

There's more than one way to get strong. Deadlifts and squats is one of those ways.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

There's more than one way to get strong. Deadlifts and squats is one of those ways.

The best way.

 

[ripskater]

The best way.

I think it depends on the athlete, and what you want to accomplish.

But I do agree it's a great way to get stronger.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

I think it depends on the athlete, and what you want to accomplish.

But I do agree it's a great way to get stronger.

My post was obviously subjective and biased, but there's reason to the madness.

Why did I say best? Deadlifts and squats are simple, easy-to-learn movements that provide huge strength gains that can be applicable to all sports.

All you do is pick up a barbell from the floor with a straight back, or load a barbell on your back, maintain a straight back, and bend the knees. That's it.

It's so simple and yet, in this day and age, impressionable idiots are drawn to these expensive, fancy-looking gimmicks and machines, while their peddlers are spewing nonsense and lies about the supposed dangers of barbell training. (Case in point: Naudi).

If it's not broken, there's no need to fix it.

 

[TheeFaulted]

I'm talking about the champions, the beltholders. For example, Anderson Silva is not deadlifting 550 lbs cause he doesn't put in the effort to get there. And you only see him using 120 lbs with a band.

The belt holders who strength train using power lifts VASTLY out number those who do not.

You can mention Silva a 100 times, but he he is the exception not the rule.

As I said earlier, some have, some have not

Yeah some (>95%) have trained with powerlifts at some pooint in the strength block to get to their current level of strength
Some (<5%) have not.

 

[ripskater]

My post was obviously subjective and biased, but there's reason to the madness.

Why did I say best? Deadlifts and squats are simple, easy-to-learn movements that provide huge strength gains that can be applicable to all sports.

All you do is pick up a barbell from the floor with a straight back, or load a barbell on your back, maintain a straight back, and bend the knees. That's it.

It's so simple and yet, in this day and age, impressionable idiots are drawn to these expensive, fancy-looking gimmicks and machines, while their peddlers are spewing nonsense and lies about the supposed dangers of barbell training. (Case in point: Naudi).

If it's not broken, there's no need to fix it.

I think it's good for many athletes.
But I think powerlifting for the athlete can be dangerous if you aren't also working on your mobility. That's where you can get into trouble.

If you aren't doing mobility with it, that's the drawback.

And closer to your fight date, you need to transition to more explosive exercises. Which you would probably agree with.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

I think it's good for many athletes.
But I think powerlifting for the athlete can be dangerous if you aren't also working on your mobility. That's where you can get into trouble.

If you aren't doing mobility with it, that's the drawback.

And closer to your fight date, you need to transition to more explosive exercises. Which you would probably agree with.

And there's this thing called stretching.


And I'm pretty sure all elite athletes know how to properly warm up with them.

 

[ripskater]

And there's this thing called stretching.


And I'm pretty sure all elite athletes know how to properly warm up with them.

Well there are some natural elite athletes that don't really know that much about training.

Like some young elite athlete basketball players who all they do is just play their sport.

Then maybe in college get with a good team trainer for s and c.