Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu no Longer Effective

[Crotalis]

Thanks, that has been my point all along.

The fact that it's now essentially a prerequisite in the UFC is in fact proof of it's effectiveness. Your thread title says it's "no longer effective". If this is your argument, it is a remarkably poorly constructed one. My point was simply that it's not as easy to sub people anymore because everyone now knows submissions. That's a different thing than saying it's "not effective".

True, and I believe we have a fighter that is moving up to prove just that. It takes years upon years to become a good grappler also.

Except that we've had kids doing TKD for YEARS and there's still just a small sample size "making it" in the UFC. Meanwhile, like I said, there are a ton of people moving up and "making it" that have some style of grappling as their primary system. Fact of the matter is, being a superior grappler also helps make you a better striker since you're confident enough to throw strikes without fear of going to the ground.

Also, no, it does NOT take years and years to become a good grappler if you're really focused on it. It actually takes a lot less time to get good at grappling AND you don't need a lot of the physical/athletic attributes that something like a TKD based striking style requires. I mean don't get me wrong, a solid spinning wheel kick to the temple is always going to "work" if it lands. But that's a big "if", and you've got to put a huge amount of time into it to pull it off in a pressure environment like a cage match. Most people can't even execute that properly on a bag. Let alone an actual fight.

EDIT:

To be even more clear, this argument pops up on a pretty cyclic basis and yet there's almost never more than a handful of fighters that people point to as examples. Meanwhile the bulk of the rosters of the various fighting orgs are all still using the tried and true MuayThai/Boxing with wrestling/bjj as their base. It's like you guys don't understand outliers.

In years past "karate" was awesome because "Look at Lyoto!" Here comes that Karate Take over! It didn't happen. Now, it's "TKD is the THING!" because "LOOK AT YAIR AND MVP!".

And trust me, outside of a hand full of fighters ... it isn't going to happen.

 

[rmongler]

The idea that Tae Kwon-Do, Kung Fu, Aikido, Muay Thai, and Judo are ornamental is amazing.

Tkd, wushu, or aikido, don't deserve to be in the same sentence as Judo or Muay Thai.


The problem here is that you've come into a discussion with a simplistic and unnuanced hobbyhorse, and all these preconceptions about what people you've never met may or may not actually believe, and are surprised when you get push back, friction, or contradiction on that front.

 

[miscend]

Good video TS but, I think you need a history lesson.

People laughed and mocked BJJ back in the 60s favoring American boxing among other standup arts. BJJ revolutioned the MMA world but as you said, these were not necessarily the best of these arts. UFC was made to market BJJ.

If you recall, BJJ dominated the MMA world in the mid to late 90s. Striking was deemed not as good. Karate was laughable then, we had strikers dominating again, the Iceman, then we had Karate kid Machida or Wonderbread.

Everyone keeps jumping on these different flavors of arts. Bruce Lee had it right with non-attachment to any one specific art. I cannot imagine a Wing Chun UFC champ but, many felt that about BJJ in the 60s or karate before Machida. Now, everyone is inundated with BJJ, and someone is stating claim that its no longer valid of course, until someone proves otherwise. I still cannot imagine a Wing Chun success story in UFC or MMA. Most "self-defense" arts are cute sounding in theory and yet, piss port in point fighting for sport. Once someone adopts a system that is practical and integrated into MMA, anything will suffice but, until then, we will likely see the same shit again and again.

In the 60's no one outside of Brazil knew BJJ.

 

[miscend]

Just becauE your Brazilian doesn't mean you train... What's your belt? Where do you train at?You believe in Bruce lee? Lmfao dude was a great actor and had the right philosophy he however was not a fighter...

Your videos show nothing at all... Yair rodriguez is a prospect, nothing more he has not beaten any one just yet... You wanna bring better examples use pettis or Barboza although he comes from mt...

I can brin a trillon videos of guys submitting other guys too, don't see your point...

It amazes me how super ignorant of Bruce Lee people are. If you think he isn't legit why don't you walk into any legit JKD school, like Eric Paulson or Dan Insanto and go see what they are about.

JKD is very close to modern MMA except it's a bit more eclectic with influences from Boxing, Wing Chun, Escrima, Savate, Catch etc. The basic MMA formula of Muay Thai, Wrestling and BJJ is also covered.

 

[SummerStriker]

Tkd, wushu, or aikido, don't deserve to be in the same sentence as Judo or Muay Thai.


The problem here is that you've come into a discussion with all these preconceptions about what people you've never met may or may not actually believe, and are surprised when you get push back, friction, or contradiction on that front.

Olympic TKD training is almost as physically difficult and dangerous as Muay Thai. People get hurt doing Olympic TKD sparring, let alone competitions. Tactically, the unmodified art isn't as good for fist fighting or MMA as Muay Thai, but the difficulty of the activity is impressive by martial arts standards.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It amazes me how super ignorant of Bruce Lee people are. If you think he isn't legit why don't you walk into any legit JKD school, like Eric Paulson or Dan Insanto and go see what they are about.

JKD is very close to modern MMA except it's a bit more eclectic with influences from Boxing, Wing Chun, Escrima, Savate, Catch etc. The basic MMA formula of Muay Thai, Wrestling and BJJ is also covered.

He couldve Been a great instructor phylosopher and thinker. He could've developed the greatest martial art of all, in theory, however he was not a fighter. A fighter fights, not pretends to fight...What amazes me is people actually buying into his hype... Where are the proofs of him as a fighter? There is none... If he wanted to be a fighter and proved the effectiveness of his style, he could've you know, actually fight on video? He made tons of movies yet not a single real fight?

It's 2017 and people still believe in Jesus Mohamed shiva etc, it actually doesn't surprise me people believing in Bruce.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Olympic TKD training is almost as physically difficult and dangerous as Muay Thai. People get hurt doing Olympic TKD sparring, let alone competitions. Tactically, the unmodified art isn't as good for fist fighting or MMA as Muay Thai, but the difficulty of the activity is impressive by martial arts standards.

There are many things that are tasking, yet doesn't mean it translates to fighting well...

 

[SummerStriker]

There are many things that are tasking, yet doesn't mean it translates to fighting well...

I guess my point is that Olympic TKD is still a real sport and really dangerous, and shouldn't be on the same list as Kung Fu, Akido or Wu Shu either.

 

[freaky]

Cuz everyone knows BJJ but not many people know TKD. TKD being the FOTM is going to have the BJJ effect in which everyone knows it and negate most of it's moves/techniques until another lesser known martial art takes it's place. We are finally seeing MMA become more MMA and less MuayThaiJiuJitsu.

 

[SummerStriker]

Lots of hobbyists and amateur fighters have odd skill sets that aren't the classical style of MMA, partly because a lot of schools happen to have two or three martial arts classes and an "mma" class for their fighters.

I've been in two schools with TKD, Muay Thai and BJJ, which produced amateur fighters.

Within those schools, there are people who do TKD and BJJ, but don't fight and don't do MT. They don't wrestle and don't throw, but will spar. They are some of the most obnoxious people.

Imagine a dude coming at you with triple round house kicks, axe kicks and spinning kicks, trying his ass off to land in guard.

 

[miscend]

He couldve Been a great instructor phylosopher and thinker. He could've developed the greatest martial art of all, in theory, however he was not a fighter. A fighter fights, not pretends to fight...What amazes me is people actually buying into his hype... Where are the proofs of him as a fighter? There is none... If he wanted to be a fighter and proved the effectiveness of his style, he could've you know, actually fight on video? He made tons of movies yet not a single real fight?

It's 2017 and people still believe in Jesus Mohamed shiva etc, it actually doesn't surprise me people believing in Bruce.

He had fights behind closed doors, nothing that is legal so all that's left are eye witness accounts. Remember this was a time before smartphones and YouTube. Lee died in 72 and back in the late 60's when he was most active there was no such thing as MMA.

The most commonly talked about ones are the one with Wong Jack Man. He had a few while he was growing up in the streets of Hong Kong. Bruce Lee was actually also a boxing champion in Hong Kong. There was also a another fight on the set of Fist of Fury with a stunt man who was taken really quick.

 

[Phr3121]

Here in the us? I though you lived in Brazil?

I'm from Paraguay, and I got my tkd black belt at 13...

I was born and raised in Brazil but now live in the U.S. I was in Asuncion in 1998 with the U.S. military.

 

[Phr3121]

The problem here is that you've come into a discussion with a simplistic and unnuanced hobbyhorse, and all these preconceptions about what people you've never met may or may not actually believe, and are surprised when you get push back, friction, or contradiction on that front.

Yeah, a little hard to meet people when you are writing in a forum. No preconceptions about anything, just what people write. No, it is not push back or friction, it is called being rude, insulting, and making it personal instead of sticking with the subject. A lot of little ‘prima donnas’ on this forum, that’s the only problem. There is no problem here, just a difference of opinion. Disagree with you on Tae Kwon-Do and Aikido. Seen it used on the streets and it is very effective. Dropped a kid on the streets not too long ago with a TKD punch-kick combination, so, yes, it is effective.

 

[jack36767]

Things I learned

TS appears to be a thin skinned bitch and will argue or insult if people aren't nice enough but backtrack if they are nice

TS has the example of one or two fighters for TKD but ignores the dozens for grappling examples in mma right now

He apparently thinks everyone here thinks you should pull guard in a street fight. And doesn't understand self defense

And he thinks being Brazilian makes him an expert

People still believe an actor was one of the GOATS in real life because they thought he was cool as a kid

Oh yeah TS is thin skinned

 

[bigbangspiritbomb]

In the 60's no one outside of Brazil knew BJJ.

Boxing was believed to be better then JJJ or BJJ.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

He had fights behind closed doors, nothing that is legal so all that's left are eye witness accounts. Remember this was a time before smartphones and YouTube. Lee died in 72 and back in the late 60's when he was most active there was no such thing as MMA.

The most commonly talked about ones are the one with Wong Jack Man. He had a few while he was growing up in the streets of Hong Kong. Bruce Lee was actually also a boxing champion in Hong Kong. There was also a another fight on the set of Fist of Fury with a stunt man who was taken really quick.

You know, before ufc 1 everyone knew someone who was some sort of ninja and could kill people with death touches and shit like that, there were all kind one mythical Jedis walking on earth... Well after ufc 1 and the invention of the cell phone with cameras those people stop existing, what you are taking about are urban myths, and even if he knocked out some dude in a film set, does that means he was some type of special fighter? I have many classmates that are rugby players, they got in plenty sf and knocked people silly, does that mean we should all join a rugby club to learn how to fight? Don't be silly, a pro fighter fights, he has never ever in. His life fought anyone trained, behind close doors my ass, if he was that good that shit for sure was going on tape... At least one fight, yet we have nothing... As far as real fighting goes chuck Norris and van damme are way more legit the Bruce.... Now, bruce was a very smart dude, no doubt his phylosohy about fighting is quite smart. But you it's easier say than done...

 

[SummerStriker]

Boxing was believed to be better then JJJ or BJJ.

Then it turned out that if you do both for six months, you can beat the holy hell out of someone that did either for 3-4 years.

 

[SummerStriker]

You know, before ufc 1 everyone knew someone who was some sort of ninja and could kill people with death touches and shit like that, there were all kind one mythical Jedis walking on earth... Well after ufc 1 and the invention of the cell phone with cameras those people stop existing, what you are taking about are urban myths, and even if he knocked out some dude in a film set, does that means he was some type of special fighter? I have many classmates that are rugby players, they got in plenty sf and knocked people silly, does that mean we should all join a rugby club to learn how to fight? Don't be silly, a pro fighter fights, he has never ever in. His life fought anyone trained, behind close doors my ass, if he was that good that shit for sure was going on tape... At least one fight, yet we have nothing... As far as real fighting goes chuck Norris and van damme are way more legit the Bruce.... Now, bruce was a very smart dude, no doubt his phylosohy about fighting is quite smart. But you it's easier than done...

I need to find the video of Chuck getting salty when asked if he could take Bruce. "Well, at the time I was a full contact professional fighting champion and he was an actor, but he was very good."

 

[Old Man]

 

[miscend]

Boxing was believed to be better then JJJ or BJJ.

Again no one outside Brazil knew what BJJ was until the 80's at least. And it wasn't until UFC 1 when BJJ got wider acceptance in the martial arts community.