International Zelensky Rejects Trump's Idiotic "Minerals Deal" - Might Tell The US to go F*ck Itself

[Rational Poster]

For perspective, France in WWI had similar population as Ukraine does today.

France suffered over 325,000 deaths per year of the conflict. Not just casualties, but deaths.

Ukraine has suffered ~50,000 deaths over 3 years.

 

[Gamer2k4]

What do we get out of supporting Zelensky? Debt? Ukrainian soldiers making videos telling us to go fuck ourselves?

Trump wants to end the war.

That's my thought too. Ukraine has lasted for three years now only because of all the support other countries have continued to give them. That's money going down the drain with no apparent result except pushing off defeat; it certainly hasn't hastened victory. If these actions cause the war to end, no matter the result, that bleeding of money for all involved countries can stop.

If Ukraine was part of NATO, it would be different; we'd be obligated to help them as a result of the alliance. But they're not, and they didn't want to be until they got attacked. That's like buying car insurance after you get into an accident - by that time it's too late.

 

[Gutter Chris]

And now you've flipped the script and are trying to sound righteous?

Because our 2 biggest foes are really into expansion and if we let one of them take over an ally we promised to protect its going to send the wrong message to our foes and likely cause much worse issues for us down the road and takes us a lot closer to ww3?

Also sends a message to all of our friends that our word isn't worth a shit and maybe they make new friends. Then shit like national debt and world reserve currency and fun things like that might become an issue and that seems like it might be a lot more painful than giving Ukraine support to defend themselves.

But what the fuck do I know.


Why do you guys have such a hard on for giving the Russians what they want ? If we were invaded would you suggest we just give the invaders whatever they want so they don't hurt us ? That seems super un American to me.

 

[Rational Poster]

Lots of Russian bootlickers in this thread.

"Zelenski is showing his true colors. Why is he pushing for a fair deal?"

He's not even pushing for a fair deal, he's willing to concede mineral rights, he's willing to step down and not run again, all he's asking for is security guarantees so the Russians won't just come back next year.

 

[Rational Poster]

That's my thought too. Ukraine has lasted for three years now only because of all the support other countries have continued to give them. That's money going down the drain with no apparent result except pushing off defeat; it certainly hasn't hastened victory. If these actions cause the war to end, no matter the result, that bleeding of money for all involved countries can stop.

If Ukraine was part of NATO, it would be different; we'd be obligated to help them as a result of the alliance. But they're not, and they didn't want to be until they got attacked. That's like buying car insurance after you get into an accident - by that time it's too late.

We agreed to protect the sovereignty of Ukraine when they returned their nukes to Russia.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Ukraine's military is 980,000 soldiers strong, Zelensky says

"The Ukrainian army is the largest in Europe. The second place after us (France) is four times smaller than us," President Volodymyr Zelensky said.

kyivindependent.com

Ukraine has 980,000 people in arms as it fights Russia's all-out war, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in an interview with U.S. podcaster Lex Fridman published on Jan. 5.

Zelensky presented Ukraine's Armed Forces as the largest in Europe. This, however, excludes Russia, whose military personnel exceeded 1 million at the onset of the full-scale invasion, with Moscow aiming to raise this number to 1.5 million.

"The Ukrainian army is the largest in Europe. The second place after us (France) is four times smaller than us," Zelensky said.

"I think the French have about 200,000. We have 980,000."

That wasn't so hard was it, it's telling though that the same publication, a very pro Ukrainian one, also publishes articles complaining of a shortage though

 

[Rational Poster]

That wasn't so hard was it, it's telling though that the same publication, a very pro Ukrainian one, also publishes articles complaining of a shortage though

I mean, it's not like they made it up, it's direct quotes from Zelensky from a podcast.

 

[AWilder]

you sure Trump said all that?

Kyiv media outlets are known for lying

the post leans american left hardcore

It's like watching the chip replacement meme in real time

 

[Gamer2k4]

1. Trump is demanding $500 billion back from Ukraine which far outstrips the $100 billion the US gave. And it wasn't cash the US gave either. It was all older equipment we had in storage (Bradley's, a few Abrams, artillery, etc.)

There's several billion dollars of cash involved, too. Only some of the support has come in military supplies.

The above is from the USA only. Other countries have contributed plenty of money as well.

 

[Rational Poster]

Because our 2 biggest foes are really into expansion and if we let one of them take over an ally we promised to protect its going to send the wrong message to our foes and likely cause much worse issues for us down the road and takes us a lot closer to ww3?

Also sends a message to all of our friends that our word isn't worth a shit and maybe they make new friends. Then shit like national debt and world reserve currency and fun things like that might become an issue and that seems like it might be a lot more painful than giving Ukraine support to defend themselves.

But what the fuck do I know.


Why do you guys have such a hard on for giving the Russians what they want ? If we were invaded would you suggest we just give the invaders whatever they want so they don't hurt us ? That seems super un American to me.

They just want Trump to put his name on something to claim a victory. That's all that matters.

Even if that victory is total surrender to our geopolitical foes that are threatening to nuke our cities on state TV during these negotiations while excluding our friends and allies from the conversation.

Just like he surrendered to the Taliban behind the Afghan government.

Master deal maker, more like master of surrender.

 

[AWilder]

Because our 2 biggest foes are really into expansion and if we let one of them take over an ally we promised to protect its going to send the wrong message to our foes and likely cause much worse issues for us down the road and takes us a lot closer to ww3?

Also sends a message to all of our friends that our word isn't worth a shit and maybe they make new friends. Then shit like national debt and world reserve currency and fun things like that might become an issue and that seems like it might be a lot more painful than giving Ukraine support to defend themselves.

But what the fuck do I know.


Why do you guys have such a hard on for giving the Russians what they want ? If we were invaded would you suggest we just give the invaders whatever they want so they don't hurt us ? That seems super un American to me.

It's really weird to see these guys who aren't even aware of the Russian tentacles in their brain say the most stupid things about this conflict. Let's look at the long history of appeasement and how that works out every time. These losers don't want peace, they want America to lose and Russia to win. Practically traitors to their country.

 

[Seano]

Because our 2 biggest foes are really into expansion and if we let one of them take over an ally we promised to protect its going to send the wrong message to our foes and likely cause much worse issues for us down the road and takes us a lot closer to ww3?

Also sends a message to all of our friends that our word isn't worth a shit and maybe they make new friends. Then shit like national debt and world reserve currency and fun things like that might become an issue and that seems like it might be a lot more painful than giving Ukraine support to defend themselves.

But what the fuck do I know.


Why do you guys have such a hard on for giving the Russians what they want ? If we were invaded would you suggest we just give the invaders whatever they want so they don't hurt us ? That seems super un American to me.

I don't want Russia to get what they want but they're going to get it anyway. We all know it. We just have to decide at what cost and how long we want to drag it out and risk escalation.


We won't get invaded because we're a nuclear super power and any nation with any sense knows its not a great idea to provoke conflict with a country with world erasing nuclear capability. Well, except everyone in Europe and half of this country , I guess.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Mask off? I’ve never supported Ukraine in this.

There are multiple different levels of support at play here.
There is a difference between people who say they don't support aid & funding a war ( which is mostly B.S. and a smokescreen but im sure there may be a few who can show this consistently with their views on other countries too)
VS.
Supporting the invasion of a sovereign nation from a known corrupt dictator due to their right to choose their own allies.

 

[Rational Poster]

There's several billion dollars of cash involved, too. Only some of the support has come in military supplies.

The above is from the USA only. Other countries have contributed plenty of money as well.

It's disingenuous to imply these are just cash giveaways to Ukraine. One of the largest lines listed there $20B explicitly states it's a loan.

The majority is paid to domestic entities to procure supplies. So really it's money paid to ourselves and then supplies go to Ukraine.

 

[Seano]

That's my thought too. Ukraine has lasted for three years now only because of all the support other countries have continued to give them. That's money going down the drain with no apparent result except pushing off defeat; it certainly hasn't hastened victory. If these actions cause the war to end, no matter the result, that bleeding of money for all involved countries can stop.

If Ukraine was part of NATO, it would be different; we'd be obligated to help them as a result of the alliance. But they're not, and they didn't want to be until they got attacked. That's like buying car insurance after you get into an accident - by that time it's too late.

France and Germany said Ukraine was too corrupt for NATO.

 

[Rational Poster]

I don't want Russia to get what they want but they're going to get it anyway. We all know it. We just have to decide at what cost and how long we want to drag it out and risk escalation.


We won't get invaded because we're a nuclear super power and any nation with any sense knows its not a great idea to provoke conflict with a country with world erasing nuclear capability. Well, except everyone in Europe and half of this country , I guess.

It will take Russia 30 years just to capture the territory they've claimed on paper at the current rate of progress.

 

[Seano]

It's disingenuous to imply these are just cash giveaways to Ukraine. One of the largest lines listed there $20B explicitly states it's a loan.

The majority is paid to domestic entities to procure supplies. So really it's money paid to ourselves and then supplies go to Ukraine.

Anything we've sent them is lost USA assets. Old tanks and jets aren't actual money only because we didn't sell them and gave them to Ukraine instead.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

China is not providing military aid, they've been very careful what they are sending to avoid getting sanctioned themselves.

US and the entire world is backing Ukraine. Who do you think has a bigger economy and production capacity? EU combined has equal GDP to the US, and 200 million more consumers.

You're living in a fantasy if you think they're incapable of doing more with or without us.

Hes often wrong when predicting Ukranian victories. Hes infamous for dismissing Usyk & saying he was nothing special as a boxer or Heavyweight......

Even though it's 100% true, I say it lightheartedly, but he will get offended. Lol.

Its even stranger because at one time a whole bunch of weirdos literally accused him of hating white Europeans & Ukranians. I thought it was absolutely ridiculous back then & stood up for him....Was kind of a running joke for a while.

But now things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.

 

[calavera2]

It's really weird to see these guys who aren't even aware of the Russian tentacles in their brain say the most stupid things about this conflict. Let's look at the long history of appeasement and how that works out every time. These losers don't want peace, they want America to lose and Russia to win. Practically traitors to their country.

I'm telling you these Trumpers are cucks to the core...they get off on this subservient shit to the oligarchs and dictators...

Russia has explicitly stated at every level of their government structure that their aim is to destroy US hegemony...They actively threaten and subvert...you may dislike western style of governance and all their bs but the Russia/China autocratic governance gets a big go fuck yourself in the face...the trump twats are traitors

 

[Rational Poster]

Anything we've sent them is lost USA assets. Old tanks and jets aren't actual money only because we didn't sell them and gave them to Ukraine instead.

Actually, these aging systems costs us billions annually to maintain and dispose of. $318 billion dollars of the US military budget is maintenance.

Why not just let Ukraine dispose of them for us by killing invading Russians as they were designed for?