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Yan rubbing salt on Sugars wounds

'Unwarranted' was your words, not mine. That's merit based.

Sean didn't have anything for Merab either, and "popular" might be the argument there, but it's not like Sean moves PPV numbers, so like you said, not logical choice there either (I'd have liked Pantoja).

Like I said, if they didn't want Yan to have the argument he's ahead of everyone else they shouldn't have given him the meaningful win. Their short term booking plans had them skyrocket Umar to a shot at the cost of not having Fig or Cory as next up.

You really want to split hairs about the meaning of the word “unwarranted”? My point stands. It was unnecessary. I also used the word “unwanted” in conjunction, so my meaning should be perfectly clear.

I was not disputing that Sean had anything for Merab. I was certain he didn’t.

And Sean moves the needle more than Yan. If you wish to dispute that, you might have to go full retard like Gustaffson. It’s the whole reason Sean got the fight. Literally no one is disputing why the UFC made this decision.
 
Yan can run his mouth all he wants, bottom line is that he couldn't beat Sean on his best day, he came close, but not close enough.

This is the guy who got a title shot off a win over Faber who was 4-4 since challenging for a title. Talk about deserving. And then he gets DQd and get a immediate shot again.

Hypocrite. I find all these Russian guys are whiners, entitled and hypocrites.

He didn't get an immediate title shot off the DQ, he fought Sandhagen for the interim because Sterling was out for almost a year with his neck? surgery.

If you are going to be a hater at least be an accurate one.
 
He didn't get an immediate title shot off the DQ, he fought Sandhagen for the interim because Sterling was out for almost a year with his neck? surgery.

If you are going to be a hater at least be an accurate one.

Awwww, right away you resort to the hater comments just cause you don't like someone not seeing things your way.

Any way you spin it, he got a title shot after the DQ, interim or not. So it is being accurate. Sterling was out, they did an interim title shot and he got it coming of a DQ loss plain and simple.
 
I mean not really, we saw it with Max you keep beating every contender you will eventually get a title shot again.
Except no one wanted a rubbermatch between Max and Volk either. The one thing Max had going for him is that most felt he won the 2nd fight which was probably the main reason why a 3rd fight did happen. O'Malley doesn't have that lucky situation.
 
Depends on his DWPrivilege level.
Remmember frankie lost 2 title fights in a row against against bendo and right after that got a titleshot against aldo with zero fights in between and never having fought at FW in or out of UFC.

And even after that he was not “stuck as a gatekeeper” and earned another shot at Aldo relatively quickly.

He lost all 4 of these mind you.
Frankie had the benefit of being robbed by the judges in that 2nd Benson fight by the vast majority plus, he went on a good 5 fight win streak before he fought Aldo again.
 
Awwww, right away you resort to the hater comments just cause you don't like someone not seeing things your way.

Any way you spin it, he got a title shot after the DQ, interim or not. So it is being accurate. Sterling was out, they did an interim title shot and he got it coming of a DQ loss plain and simple.
 
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Awwww, right away you resort to the hater comments just cause you don't like someone not seeing things your way.

Any way you spin it, he got a title shot after the DQ, interim or not. So it is being accurate. Sterling was out, they did an interim title shot and he got it coming of a DQ loss plain and simple.

I guess we are splitting hairs over semantics.

Is an interim title shot a title shot? Technically but not really, since all it does is guarantee you a shot at the real title, but it has the words "title" in it so yeah I suppose it is one. But it wasn't a rematch like with Suga, he still had to win another fight to get that.

I just don't like the lack of context in any of the arguments made - he didn't lose a title fight like Suga i.e. got clearly beaten, he got DQ'd in a fight he had basically already won. That's kind of important when the visual narrative is one guy winning a fight and then landing an illegal blow where the other guy puts on an over-the-top acting job to guarantee a DQ. Then he lost the closest type of split-decision possible to the same guy after putting on one of the best BW fights of all-time against Sandhagen.

You say he "couldn't beat Sean on his best day" - who said that was his best day? And if we use perceptive reality as "who won" not just the three guys the UFC essentially pays to be there by paying off athletic commissions the majority of everyone believes Yan won - fans, media, fighters.

Beating Faber made him 6-0 and the UFC was in a shit-spot with Cejudo vacating the title, Moraes shit the bed and they gave him a bounce-back fight against Aldo dropping down and it was a coin-flip that could've gone either way. They promised Faber a title fight if he beat Yan, so it's likely Yan got the same promise with a win.

The UFC was short on name-value contenders with TJ out with EPO doping, Cruz getting smoked by Cejudo, Cejduo retiring, and Moraes shitting the bed versus Cejduo. At that time who was left to fight for the title? The rankings were:

Moraes > "beat Aldo" in fight 50% of media and 60% of fans thought he lost (would go on a 7 fight losing streak after this, hasn't "won" since, so if judges went a different way would be a 9 fight losing streak)
Sterling > booked to fight Sandhagen
Yan > not booked
Sandhagen > booked to fight Sterling
Assucao > booked to fight Garbrandt
Aldo > "lost to Moraes"
Munhoz > lost to Aljjo, booked against Edgar
Rivera > coming off a 2-loss streak to Aljo/Yan
Garbrandt > coming off a 3-loss streak of getting KO'd, was booked against Assuncao the month before
Font > 3-2 in his last 5, coming off 2 wins by decision over Simon/Pettis

Timing/circumstance/what have you done lately/how have you done it/name-value - these things all come into play. Based on the landscape it looks like Yan was putting on incredibly exciting fights, winning all of them, willing to fight anyone anywhere, and the division was log-jammed with a bunch of guys at the top already booked or coming off of loses/mixed performances. Dana White even tweeted out after Cejudo retired that the Vacant title fight would be "Petr Yan vs. Somebody" so that's just the way he cards fell.

The 4-4 since challenging for the title is pretty void of context - those losses:

Aljo 1 - DQ in a fight he had basically won; a loss on paper but everyone's memory of that fight is Yan breaking Aljo then committing the foul which Aljo oversold unnecessarily to get a DQ.

Aljo 2 - Split-decision in a fight he could've easily won, about a coin-flip a fight as can be.

Suga - Split-decision loss in a fight the majority of fans/media/fighters think he won.

Merab - Came in with an injury, got another injury immediately, and got ran over by one of the best of all-time to do it.

His losses are to the last 3 champions and he arguably won 2 of them, he never got finished and the only domination was Merab who does that to everybody. That was a fight he shouldn't have taken since he was so injured and he's even admitted as such, but it's his fault for taking it so he needs to just eat the L. Yan's record is one of those ones where if you don't watch the fights and just look at the "official record" it completely negates actual truth.

And I don't see why you hate the Russian fighters specifically, they are no different than any other nationality - most fighters are entitled, have excuses when they lose, and are hypocrites.
 
Damn dude, from now on you'll be known to me as xhaydenx69. I know your ass, you mother fucking gots to be trolling.

Eh? You think I'm trolling because I said the media scores don't matter and that they're just fight fans giving their own scores? That is literally what they are. They're no different than me or you scoring it. That one guy did change his mind, and the only scores that matter in the end are the judges lol.

I don't know what the 69 reference is, to be honest.
 
It really wasn't that close, it was competitive, but they massaged the fight stats and the commentary blew Suga during the fight to make it seem closer than it really was. That's why 95% of the media and 95% of pro fighters believed Yan to win.

I wrote a whole thread doing a play-by-play breakdown of the scoring years back:

The MMAnalyst Scoring Breakdown - Yan vs. O'Malley Rounds 1 & 3

FIGHT METRIC STATS
SUGA = 23 Significant Strikes
YAN = 19 Significant Strikes

REAL STATS
SUGA = Landed 14 and 5 were significantly damaging
YAN = landed 21 and 10 were significantly damaging

KEY SUMMARY POINT
Re-Watching this round it is literally impossible for me to give the round to O'Malley. He gets out-struck 21-14 (3:2) and in medium strikes 10-5 (2:1), is being walked down the entire round, the best strike of the round to me is the body kick Yan lands against the fence in the early/middle part of the round. O'Malley's offense is pretty much limited to his hands, he can't kick nearly as well as Yan and takes a lot of solid early damage to his legs.

I think this round is kind of reflective to the inherent biases judges have towards punches/head strikes - O'Malley lands 8 punches to the head (5 medium/3 light) and Yan lands 8 punches to the head (2 medium/6 light) so in terms of punches to the head O'Malley does better. But when we factor in the kicks O'Malley lands only 6 light kicks (2 of which are push kicks to knee which barely do any damage) while Yan lands 13 kicks (8 medium/5 light) some of which are really clean and powerful.

Never once does Yan look stunned or hurt and he is the aggressor the entire round. It's just shady to be honest, this isn't like Sterling/Yan 2 where the first round is so low-volume and tentative that it really comes down to interpreting one or two strikes a certain way. This is beyond clear - Yan is coming forward the whole round, out-landing his opponent 3:2, and landing the bigger strikes from those 2:1. He also gets the only takedown/extended control in the round even if it only lasts under a minute.

I gave Suga the 3rd round even though that round is also incredibly close, so I'm not trying to be blind to effective offense because of fighter bias.

But I could care less about what "plenty of people thought" when they can't articulate that thought process - plenty of people thought Machida beat Shogun in the first fight, or Lawler beat Condit, or Paddy beat Gordon, and so on and so on. In every bad decision there is always a vocal minority, which also refuses to acknowledge that it's a minority and think that just by existing and not being able to articulate their position is a validation. As if we are debating what tastes better, pizza or tacos, as if it's a completely subjective interpretation of reality. It's ridiculous, if you want to argue why Suga won then explain why, don't just say "I thought he won" because that's not an argument it's just an opinion.



I was just explaining the circumstances behind what he fight got made. Uriah was a huge name and had just come back and KO'd Simon in a minute and was negotiating to get another title shot/run at the title. They told him to fight the guy they thought would be the next champion in order to do so.



I never said I was ok with Aldo getting the title shot.

Didn't Suga get his #1 contender fight off an eye-poke NC versus Pedro Munhoz, a fight in which he lost the first round and did almost nothing?

That's just how the game works, when the UFC wants to push certain fighters they get opportunities that others don't deserved or not.

Both Aldo and Suga are examples of someone losing a fight but still getting rewarded with a title shot off it because of name-value/UFC hype machine.



My point was that Yan was body-bagging those opponents, it wasn't him crawling off the mat concussed and having gone through a blender and not believing he won a fight.

If you can't see the difference between how those fights ended it's just bias.

Suga is also an amazing fighter. Having a competitive fight with Yan is an amazing effort. But I hate being told by the UFC to not believe my own lying eyes. We all know what we saw and it was a competitive fight with a clear winner that wasn't Suga.



Complete speculation on how Suga would've done versus Aldo, that likely is a super-competitive fight.

Styles make fights, Yan is a short/stocky slow-building fighter, not a tall/rangy out-fighter. Yan basically won the first fight in an amazing performance before having the ultimate brain-fart and getting a DQ when he had already basically won. Then he got out-grappled for half a fight by one of the best grapplers in the lighter weight classes of all-time and still turned the fight around and arguably won it (split-decision and by PRIDE rules, Street Rules, would've won it).

Suga got to fight him coming off of 3 camps/3 fights in a year on short-notice on Suga's home turf while Suga had a 10-month layoff to prepare for the fight.

But yes Suga did better against Aljo. So what? We are talking about Suga vs. Yan, completely different fight. When you don't have an argument to articulate changing the subject is a good tactic.

Instead of wasting time discussing other match-ups, other situations, other hypotheticals, please explain in detail why you believe Suga beat Yan. I'm all the more happy to hear the argument and take it in fairly, I just haven't heard a good one yet because I actually re-watched the first round multiple times and strike-by-strike calculated what happened and it's not close, it's competitive, meaning Suga didn't get washed out in the round but was nowhere near close to winning it.


Brother, you always write doorstoppers and if I reply to your post properly, there's too many points I'd want to discuss with you and it'd take me all morning and I've got to work. I'm sorry lol. It's not even that I don't want to.
 
refreshing to see honesty like this on sherdog. Everyone loves to pretend they dont do it.

Mate, I do it like every time there's two big sides to choose from. I just pick whichever one has the potential to rustle a few jimmies, and then have fun while trying not to upset anyone too bad haha.
 
Yan vs merab is stylistically a good fight I actually got yan on that one
 
I just pick whichever one has the potential to rustle a few jimmies, and then have fun while trying not to upset anyone too bad haha.
So you dont really care for Illa, your secret is safe with me lmao
 
Ah yes, that beautiful point in time where trolling truly means something. It's a heart warming feeling :)

You'll know it was only trolling and not love if Topuria loses his LW title fight and I'm posting in google translated Portuguese the day after haha.
 
You'll know it was only trolling and not love if Topuria loses his LW title fight and I'm posting in google translated Portuguese the day after haha.
I'm really not worried for him but crazier things have happened...
 
Brother, you always write doorstoppers and if I reply to your post properly, there's too many points I'd want to discuss with you and it'd take me all morning and I've got to work. I'm sorry lol. It's not even that I don't want to.

Haha all good brother, have a good day at work, if you feel like responding at some point I'll be happy to read your take on anything/everything.
 
They robbed Yan to gift Suga a title shot.

Then leaned on Aljo to fight with injuries on a short camp with Suga getting a 9 month layoff prior.

Then gave Suga an undeserving Chito in his first defense.

Then after clearly losing got a rematch without earning it.

UFC doing what it does to manufacture a star, but can only do so much.
This is why as much as I disliked Conor he won the fights that were gifted to him. Its not that easy .
 
It really wasn't that close, it was competitive, but they massaged the fight stats and the commentary blew Suga during the fight to make it seem closer than it really was. That's why 95% of the media and 95% of pro fighters believed Yan to win.

I wrote a whole thread doing a play-by-play breakdown of the scoring years back:

The MMAnalyst Scoring Breakdown - Yan vs. O'Malley Rounds 1 & 3

FIGHT METRIC STATS
SUGA = 23 Significant Strikes
YAN = 19 Significant Strikes

REAL STATS
SUGA = Landed 14 and 5 were significantly damaging
YAN = landed 21 and 10 were significantly damaging

KEY SUMMARY POINT
Re-Watching this round it is literally impossible for me to give the round to O'Malley. He gets out-struck 21-14 (3:2) and in medium strikes 10-5 (2:1), is being walked down the entire round, the best strike of the round to me is the body kick Yan lands against the fence in the early/middle part of the round. O'Malley's offense is pretty much limited to his hands, he can't kick nearly as well as Yan and takes a lot of solid early damage to his legs.

I think this round is kind of reflective to the inherent biases judges have towards punches/head strikes - O'Malley lands 8 punches to the head (5 medium/3 light) and Yan lands 8 punches to the head (2 medium/6 light) so in terms of punches to the head O'Malley does better. But when we factor in the kicks O'Malley lands only 6 light kicks (2 of which are push kicks to knee which barely do any damage) while Yan lands 13 kicks (8 medium/5 light) some of which are really clean and powerful.

Never once does Yan look stunned or hurt and he is the aggressor the entire round. It's just shady to be honest, this isn't like Sterling/Yan 2 where the first round is so low-volume and tentative that it really comes down to interpreting one or two strikes a certain way. This is beyond clear - Yan is coming forward the whole round, out-landing his opponent 3:2, and landing the bigger strikes from those 2:1. He also gets the only takedown/extended control in the round even if it only lasts under a minute.

I gave Suga the 3rd round even though that round is also incredibly close, so I'm not trying to be blind to effective offense because of fighter bias.

But I could care less about what "plenty of people thought" when they can't articulate that thought process - plenty of people thought Machida beat Shogun in the first fight, or Lawler beat Condit, or Paddy beat Gordon, and so on and so on. In every bad decision there is always a vocal minority, which also refuses to acknowledge that it's a minority and think that just by existing and not being able to articulate their position is a validation. As if we are debating what tastes better, pizza or tacos, as if it's a completely subjective interpretation of reality. It's ridiculous, if you want to argue why Suga won then explain why, don't just say "I thought he won" because that's not an argument it's just an opinion.



I was just explaining the circumstances behind what he fight got made. Uriah was a huge name and had just come back and KO'd Simon in a minute and was negotiating to get another title shot/run at the title. They told him to fight the guy they thought would be the next champion in order to do so.



I never said I was ok with Aldo getting the title shot.

Didn't Suga get his #1 contender fight off an eye-poke NC versus Pedro Munhoz, a fight in which he lost the first round and did almost nothing?

That's just how the game works, when the UFC wants to push certain fighters they get opportunities that others don't deserved or not.

Both Aldo and Suga are examples of someone losing a fight but still getting rewarded with a title shot off it because of name-value/UFC hype machine.



My point was that Yan was body-bagging those opponents, it wasn't him crawling off the mat concussed and having gone through a blender and not believing he won a fight.

If you can't see the difference between how those fights ended it's just bias.

Suga is also an amazing fighter. Having a competitive fight with Yan is an amazing effort. But I hate being told by the UFC to not believe my own lying eyes. We all know what we saw and it was a competitive fight with a clear winner that wasn't Suga.



Complete speculation on how Suga would've done versus Aldo, that likely is a super-competitive fight.

Styles make fights, Yan is a short/stocky slow-building fighter, not a tall/rangy out-fighter. Yan basically won the first fight in an amazing performance before having the ultimate brain-fart and getting a DQ when he had already basically won. Then he got out-grappled for half a fight by one of the best grapplers in the lighter weight classes of all-time and still turned the fight around and arguably won it (split-decision and by PRIDE rules, Street Rules, would've won it).

Suga got to fight him coming off of 3 camps/3 fights in a year on short-notice on Suga's home turf while Suga had a 10-month layoff to prepare for the fight.

But yes Suga did better against Aljo. So what? We are talking about Suga vs. Yan, completely different fight. When you don't have an argument to articulate changing the subject is a good tactic.

Instead of wasting time discussing other match-ups, other situations, other hypotheticals, please explain in detail why you believe Suga beat Yan. I'm all the more happy to hear the argument and take it in fairly, I just haven't heard a good one yet because I actually re-watched the first round multiple times and strike-by-strike calculated what happened and it's not close, it's competitive, meaning Suga didn't get washed out in the round but was nowhere near close to winning it.
It doesn't matter that 95% of the UFC supporting and watching community believe Yan won. Hayden69s opinion matters more
 
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