Social WR Lounge 326: where are we at?

[Rob Battisti]

I think we allow as much as we possibly can though. This is the one site I’ve seen where mods try to create as much room as possible until hard boundaries outside their control are set. Where as a lot of modern platforms go out of their way to create a more stringent set of standards because of what they view as “right” or “wrong”. There’s a lot of posters I view as flat out wrong or morally unsound, but we still create space for them when we can.

This is why this site rules

 

[Rob Battisti]

I'm not going to cast judgements on your union in particular, what I'm articulating is the liberal critique of unions which I've come to buy more into over time but which you can agree or disagree with. I would even concede that in the interim they might be a necessary arrangement under the immediate political circumstances. A lot of us would like single payer healthcare but also realize that in the short term extending the ACA credits is what's important. I don't buy that unions are always that necessary evil which creates the fairest possible outcomes in the short term but that's probably true at least some of the time and thus judging any union in particular requires looking at the particulars of the arrangement.

I probably am more pro union than you are it seems. Though I’m certainly NOT pro union. Not in today’s world anyway.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I mean unions are a shadow of what they once were. And things have only gotten worse for workers.

Do you think that is due to ineptitude and corruption within the unions themselves? It’s really just human nature taking its course.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

I think it might be just you.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I’m once again asking where the inflation is after these tariffs were implemented

 

[BFoe]

I’m once again asking where the inflation is after these tariffs were implemented

I don’t understand what it is about my answer to this that’s unsatisfactory. I feel like I’ve responded to this several times.

There is inflation because of tariffs. They are causing negative economic impact.

Under Trump, Inflation Is Costing Average US Family $700 More Per Month | Common Dreams

"While President Trump claimed that he would bring down prices, the reality is that Americans have seen their costs soar even higher since he took office."

www.commondreams.org

Trump Administration Tariffs Could Result in 450,000 Fewer New Homes Through 2030

The Trump administration’s tariffs are making it more expensive to build homes, deepening the U.S. housing shortage.

www.americanprogress.org

https://www.npr.org/2025/12/11/nx-s1-5639957/trump-affordability-hoax-economy-midterms

I mean, the fat orange idiot is on a whole Affordability mission right now, trying to convince people that the things that are less affordable really aren’t, and the tariff policies that caused it really didn’t. In fact, he continues to le about how tariffs work and who pays them.

President Trump Says His Tariffs Aren’t Paid by Americans. Corporations Are Indicating the Opposite.

Corporations have publicly revealed that they are passing the cost of tariffs on to Americans—the opposite of what the executive branch has said is happening.

itep.org

It’s every bit the failed policy we said it’d be. It’s not creating jobs, it’s not bringing manufacturing back and isn’t going to, and it’s making life harder for everyday Americans.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Do you think that is due to ineptitude and corruption within the unions themselves? It’s really just human nature taking its course.

I'm not saying there are never any problems with corruption, we did have the Jimmy Hoffa era, but to me it seems clear that it's corporations and politicians union busting more than anything. Just look at Musk and Trump joking about it before the election and then Trump following his lead when he was elected trying to remove government worker's rights to collectively bargain. Large companies prefer to hire contractors rather than to have their own unionized labor nowadays and as membership dwindles so does their leverage.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I’m once again asking where the inflation is after these tariffs were implemented

I just received a package from Japan and had to pay an additional 15% tariff for that money to go where? So Trump can give it to farmers he screwed over with these very tariffs? I know people complained about Obama when the ACA was signed into law, claiming it was an unfair tax, so I don't see how this is any different.

At least the point of the ACA was to provide healthcare coverage to millions of people while these tariffs just seem like a way for Trump to negotiate like a bully and chisel even more money from our own populace. Who really believes that this narcissist cares the least bit about the common man especially considering his own history stiffing contractors?

 

[Mr Holmes]

I don’t understand what it is about my answer to this that’s unsatisfactory. I feel like I’ve responded to this several times.

There is inflation because of tariffs. They are causing negative economic impact.

Under Trump, Inflation Is Costing Average US Family $700 More Per Month | Common Dreams

"While President Trump claimed that he would bring down prices, the reality is that Americans have seen their costs soar even higher since he took office."

www.commondreams.org

Trump Administration Tariffs Could Result in 450,000 Fewer New Homes Through 2030

The Trump administration’s tariffs are making it more expensive to build homes, deepening the U.S. housing shortage.

www.americanprogress.org

https://www.npr.org/2025/12/11/nx-s1-5639957/trump-affordability-hoax-economy-midterms

I mean, the fat orange idiot is on a whole Affordability mission right now, trying to convince people that the things that are less affordable really aren’t, and the tariff policies that caused it really didn’t. In fact, he continues to le about how tariffs work and who pays them.

President Trump Says His Tariffs Aren’t Paid by Americans. Corporations Are Indicating the Opposite.

Corporations have publicly revealed that they are passing the cost of tariffs on to Americans—the opposite of what the executive branch has said is happening.

itep.org

It’s every bit the failed policy we said it’d be. It’s not creating jobs, it’s not bringing manufacturing back and isn’t going to, and it’s making life harder for everyday Americans.

Families are not paying an extra $700 a month. That is obviously not true.

Inflation rates for 2025 are more down than up when compared with the previous year.

Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2025

The annual inflation rate in the United States eased to 2.7% for the 12 months ending November, down from 3.0% previously reported for September, according to U.S. Labor Department data released on December 18, 2025. Inflation figures for October are unavailable due to the government shutdown...

www.usinflationcalculator.com

You could make the argument he failed his promise of bringing prices down though.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I don’t understand what it is about my answer to this that’s unsatisfactory. I feel like I’ve responded to this several times.

There is inflation because of tariffs. They are causing negative economic impact.

Under Trump, Inflation Is Costing Average US Family $700 More Per Month | Common Dreams

"While President Trump claimed that he would bring down prices, the reality is that Americans have seen their costs soar even higher since he took office."

www.commondreams.org

Trump Administration Tariffs Could Result in 450,000 Fewer New Homes Through 2030

The Trump administration’s tariffs are making it more expensive to build homes, deepening the U.S. housing shortage.

www.americanprogress.org

https://www.npr.org/2025/12/11/nx-s1-5639957/trump-affordability-hoax-economy-midterms

I mean, the fat orange idiot is on a whole Affordability mission right now, trying to convince people that the things that are less affordable really aren’t, and the tariff policies that caused it really didn’t. In fact, he continues to le about how tariffs work and who pays them.

President Trump Says His Tariffs Aren’t Paid by Americans. Corporations Are Indicating the Opposite.

Corporations have publicly revealed that they are passing the cost of tariffs on to Americans—the opposite of what the executive branch has said is happening.

itep.org

It’s every bit the failed policy we said it’d be. It’s not creating jobs, it’s not bringing manufacturing back and isn’t going to, and it’s making life harder for everyday Americans.

It’s unsatisfactory because CPI is 2.7% and is dropping faster than expected.

Opposition was going on and on about how tariffs would greatly increase inflation and that hasn’t happened.

Would you argue that without the tariffs we’d what? Have 1% inflation?

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/12/18/business/cpi-inflation-tariffs-fed

 

[Rob Battisti]

I just received a package from Japan and had to pay an additional 15% tariff for that money to go where? So Trump can give it to farmers he screwed over with these very tariffs? I know people complained about Obama when the ACA was signed into law, claiming it was an unfair tax, so I don't see how this is any different.

At least the point of the ACA was to provide healthcare coverage to millions of people while these tariffs just seem like a way for Trump to negotiate like a bully and chisel even more money from our own populace. Who really believes that this narcissist cares the least bit about the common man especially considering his own history stiffing contractors?

The point is that inflation is slowing and people had predicted it would speed way up — that hasn’t happened.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Families are not paying an extra $700 a month. That is obviously not true.

Inflation rates for 2025 are more down than up when compared with the previous year.

Current US Inflation Rates: 2000-2025

The annual inflation rate in the United States eased to 2.7% for the 12 months ending November, down from 3.0% previously reported for September, according to U.S. Labor Department data released on December 18, 2025. Inflation figures for October are unavailable due to the government shutdown...

www.usinflationcalculator.com

You could make the argument he failed his promise of bringing prices down though.

How would he be able to bring prices down of he's adding an additional percentage to the price of more affordable goods?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

The point is that inflation is slowing and people had predicted it would speed way up — that hasn’t happened.

OK but it still makes things more expensive.

 

[Rob Battisti]

OK but it still makes things more expensive.

Inflation happens as a matter of course. The bottom line is the outrage and fear over huge inflation happening was unfounded

 

[Mr Holmes]

How would he be able to bring prices down of he's adding an additional percentage to the price of more affordable goods?

He's not, which is why I already said he failed at that.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Inflation happens as a matter of course. The bottom line is the outrage and fear over huge inflation happening was unfounded

OK, but I just had to spend an extra grand on a purchase from Japan, so does that mean the dollar is still strong but goods are still becoming less affordable due to "taxes"?

 

[LangfordBarrow]

He's not, which is why I already said he failed at that.

I know that, I was agreeing with you, and adding that it would seem impossible considering his tariffs.

 

[Mr Holmes]

I know that, I was agreeing with you, and adding that it would seem impossible considering his tariffs.

My rhetorical question meter must be off this morning.

 

[Andy Capp]

It’s unsatisfactory because CPI is 2.7% and is dropping faster than expected.

Opposition was going on and on about how tariffs would greatly increase inflation and that hasn’t happened.

Would you argue that without the tariffs we’d what? Have 1% inflation?

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/12/18/business/cpi-inflation-tariffs-fed

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/18/cpi-inflation-breakdown.html

First CPI report since shutdown ended​

"The CPI report issued Thursday was the Bureau’s first since the record-long government shutdown ended last month.

The BLS didn’t collect inflation data for October and was only able to gather data for roughly half of November due to the shutdown, which ran from Oct. 1 to Nov. 12.


That gives the public an incomplete view of how consumer prices have moved in recent months, economists said.

It also may have skewed certain data readings. For example, since the government’s data sample occurred from the middle to end of November, prices for goods may have inadvertently captured more Black Friday sales and looked artificially low, Ryan said."

"“Inflation fell quite sharply,” said Thomas Ryan, a North American economist at Capital Economics.

″[But] I think we’re slightly suspicious of some of these numbers, to be honest,” he said. “It wasn’t a usual month.”"

Note also that the unemployment rate has been rising steadily from June through to November, from 4.1 to 4.6%-- the highest it's been since September of 2021. I could be wrong but I'd expect people having less money to spend could force downward pressure on inflation as more and more people curtail spending. In any event, it's not a sign of a thriving economy, inflation rate notwithstanding.

Civilian unemployment rate

www.bls.gov

 

[Rob Battisti]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/18/cpi-inflation-breakdown.html

First CPI report since shutdown ended​

"The CPI report issued Thursday was the Bureau’s first since the record-long government shutdown ended last month.

The BLS didn’t collect inflation data for October and was only able to gather data for roughly half of November due to the shutdown, which ran from Oct. 1 to Nov. 12.


That gives the public an incomplete view of how consumer prices have moved in recent months, economists said.

It also may have skewed certain data readings. For example, since the government’s data sample occurred from the middle to end of November, prices for goods may have inadvertently captured more Black Friday sales and looked artificially low, Ryan said."

"“Inflation fell quite sharply,” said Thomas Ryan, a North American economist at Capital Economics.

″[But] I think we’re slightly suspicious of some of these numbers, to be honest,” he said. “It wasn’t a usual month.”"

Note also that the unemployment rate has been rising steadily from June through to November, from 4.1 to 4.6%-- the highest it's been since September of 2021. I could be wrong but I'd expect people having less money to spend could force downward pressure on inflation as more and more people curtail spending. In any event, it's not a sign of a thriving economy, inflation rate notwithstanding.

Civilian unemployment rate

www.bls.gov

So the answer is “don’t trust the numbers”. Okay.