Would you leave your Academy/Gym if they promote too fast?

[cugnao]

Funny timing...am just sitting down at the laptop, trying to figure out how to balance training, work, kiddo, wife etc.

I get completely where you're coming from.

Can I offer a third perspective?

It's not really about the belt; it's about what YOU think the belt represents, as a right of passage. Correct? You want to be a "legit purple belt".

But you better believe that as shitty as you think you are, there are others at your belt level that are worse...much worse. And those that are much better. So...wat do?

What you're really after is some sort of sense of having 'earned' the belt.

It seems to me your option 3 is a good one, in terms of family balance - which is important. It also gives you the touchstone of the occasional Sat open mat training at ATOS, so you can gauge your progress.

So, instead of coming up with compromises, why not stick with what works AND focus yourself towards something that represents a right of passage for you? Eg: a big, national competition (that you have to spend 6-8 months preparing towards), a week long camp, etc. Earn your -own- self respect. Set your own rubric and give yourself your own gold stars...because no one else gives as much as shit as you.

Eg: I did a week long wrestling camp this in January. I did it for me. You better believe that I was no match for the 18yr old who trains 6 days a week, twice a day and is competing in the Youth Olympics.

But...I did it. And I didn't quit. And that's worth something, in terms of being ok. (And reality, being ok by our standards is probably a fucking super-power by the average middle age joe)

www.reddit.com/r/judo/comments/adufgo/41_years_old_at_wrestling_camp_training_45_hrs_a/

Pick something like this to orient to every year and forget about "idealised" comparisons. You're not the kid who's 15 years younger than you and fucked off to ATOS. You're you, with your own shit going on. Calibrate your own win.

My $0.02

Wow wrestling with young guns is an amazing experience.Respect!

 

[cugnao]

Sounds like a no brainer, I know, and its only $50 more a month than what I currently pay, but I do have a wife and kid so my current schedule at my academy, which is down the street from where I work and live is:

M+W+F : noon lunch time class
Thursday: night class
Saturday: open mat day

This allows me time after work with my family M, T, W, and Friday during the week. If I go to Atos there is no class that I can go to during work hours so best I can do is:

M, T, W, TH : night classes, 6:15-7:45, realistically I have to leave to go there straight from work and by time I get home it will be at least 8:30, my young son would be in bed by that point.

Its hard. If I had no kid switching to Atos would be a no brainer. Sure I can be in my 40s with a legit black belt from Galvao one day, but at the expense of missing out all these valuable moments with my kid? Where after I get my black belt I realize suddenly my kid is a teenager who doesnt want to do anything with me and I missed out on something I will never experience ever again?

I dont know, maybe I can take him with me to class, he can just watch and hopefully get into it.

Can you realize how lucky you are to be able to train 4 times a week in your current academy without sacrifying your private and family life?
So many hobbyists can barely train 1 or twice a week for many reasons and life priorities. So just continue to train as usual in your current academy

 

[number9dream]

I don't get how your coach could possibly be offended if you went to him and said "hey coach, I don't feel ready for purple yet, could I skip the promotion for a bit, there are some things I want to work on?". Am I just naive? I just can't see how anyone would take offense at that, you are still paying your monthly dues....

 

[Matsukaze]

Edit: I should clarify that not seeing my 6 year old 4 nights a week if I switch to Atos is weighing heavily on me, and its probably why I will NOT switchl.

As a bjj purple belt that trains two times a week, this is such a no brainer for me. YOU will NEVER get that time BACK..... Ever.... I know you love bjj but dang man. Lot of dudes without kids will not understand the joys of fatherhood and watching them grow.

 

[mataleaos]

I don't get how your coach could possibly be offended if you went to him and said "hey coach, I don't feel ready for purple yet, could I skip the promotion for a bit, there are some things I want to work on?". Am I just naive? I just can't see how anyone would take offense at that, you are still paying your monthly dues....

I am with this. I think there should be less of a stigma around talking with your coaches about belts. It's uncomfortable and most people don't like to do it, but it should be more common than it is. Anytime I've ever known someone that's ended up talking with their coach about issues related to belts, it's never gone badly and they were always happy they did it afterwards.

 

[Kbits]

Wow wrestling with young guns is an amazing experience.Respect!

Thank you! I was under no illusion: I missed my peak athletic window some time ago. And after 20 years of judo, my body isn't what it once was. But hey...I did it

These days, it's about being a mean, old man who surprises the young uns' every now and again, trains smart and passes the skills on to the next generation.

I just want to be fit, healthy and training until I drop dead at 90 That's *my* win. (I do have a few other training goals too but that's the long term goal).

Just recently (like, this week) I had to change my schedule at wrestling so I could spend more time with wife and kiddo. This means instead of having one 'hard core' evening and 'one techincal' Saturday session, I now end up with two technical (lower intensity) early morning sessions of wrestling a week, which doesn't interfere with anything (other than my love of laying in bed).

Part of me will miss the balls to the wall evening session - and truth be told, I may try to sneak in a few more here and there. But I really need to prioritize family time before it slips through my fingers.

I think a big part of "earning your own respect" is to maintain physical conditioning into old age....which actually means MORE training (stuff like resistance training, cycling, yoga etc). But that is the sort of stuff that can and should involve family / outside of the dojo time.

More to the point - it's sets a superb precedent for your child if they see you out there sweating and exercising and encourages THEM into a lifetime of fitness.

Helping my daughter into a lifetime of fitness and giving her practical self defence skills via bjj, judo and wrestling? Yeah, fuck your belts - I win.

 

[Evenflow80]

OOps...just saw this. I'd suggest leaving that academy and going elsewhere where your family life won't suffer. In SD you have a number of choices.

What made you change your mind? The fact they dont allow outside people to roll with us?

 

[thehighking]

Why don't you take the promotion and continue to compete against purple belts. I'm sure you'll learn more training and competing with people more experienced than you. For me the belts aren't important, I just want to learn some techniques

 

[plataoplombo]

Depends if you compete or have something to prove. If you do compete then do not accept, you'll risk losing face. If just a hobbyist then just enjoy and work on being the best you can.

 

[Evenflow80]

Galvao tied my purple belt around my waist (Atos affiliate on the East Coast). I also have two children.

I would choose your family. I am 99% sure Galvao himself would tell you exactly the same thing if you went to his school and presented your choice to him.

I think you are giving yourself a false dilemma here too. There are probably more choices available to you than current gym or Atos HQ. Look around and try to find some middle way that works for you.

P.S. Galvao tying your purple belt won't give you magic powers. You'll still get tapped by whites and blues on occasion. You'll also tap browns and blacks on occasion. This will be the case no matter who ties the belt or otherwise approves of your promotion.

Well its kind of like accepting a new job: would you leave your cushy job down the street from where you live where you are comofrtable but not really challenged for another job thats 20 miles further away for a $5K salary increase? How about if its for a $20K salary increase?

If I leave my academy for another one it might be a marginal improvmenet, but with ATOS I know that I will be getting the best of the best 100%. Its the $20K new job offer basically

 

[Evenflow80]

I am with this. I think there should be less of a stigma around talking with your coaches about belts. It's uncomfortable and most people don't like to do it, but it should be more common than it is. Anytime I've ever known someone that's ended up talking with their coach about issues related to belts, it's never gone badly and they were always happy they did it afterwards.

He's very old school and stubborn. He's a 6th degree blackbelt. I think people who have been doing this for so long just want their students to not question them. Honestly I dont know....

 

[Evenflow80]

Why don't you take the promotion and continue to compete against purple belts. I'm sure you'll learn more training and competing with people more experienced than you. For me the belts aren't important, I just want to learn some techniques

I guess I can. Fortunately for me I will be competing against (in theory) guys who have wives, kids, stressful jobs like me....

 

[Evenflow80]

Depends if you compete or have something to prove. If you do compete then do not accept, you'll risk losing face. If just a hobbyist then just enjoy and work on being the best you can.

Thanks man. I do compete, but honestly just maybe 3 times a year or so.

 

[Evenflow80]

Ok. To be fair, I just follow the system I was created on.

You know. It is hard to understand.

1 stripe per 6 months

2.5 years per belt unless you show some competition results.

But otherwise, 2..5 years per belt is not bad .

10 years to black belt.

Of course, people come but it is a good stick for measure.

Some people might time served is over rated but it is quantifiable.

But personally, family comes first.
So if your current instructor has shorter time frame for his own reasons.

Don't sweat it. Enjoy the journey. I had my share of students that felt inaquate on their bekt but no one including myself made them fell bad about it.

As we get older, we totally understand and appreciate the old boys taking care of family first

2.5 years each belt sounds fair. Do you have a lot of white belts who give up before blue though? I get the sense he gives out blues at 1 year because he wants to keep people coming and not quitting.

 

[Evenflow80]

Difficult choice, you are currently training in an academy for a while and having your teammates and it's very convenient to your home so you can balance your hobby and your private life.
If you leave your academy for ATOS, ok it's a top notch academy and you will have a better tuition in teaching but you have to rebuild your relations with your new teammates and it's less convenient.
But the most important as a hobbyist is to have fun, competition is a bonus.
My new purple buddy joined our academy because the atmosphere got sour with his former BJJ instructor, otherwise he won't have left his former academy.
As a hobbyist, when a teacher gives you the purple belt you have more responsabilities like taking care of the beginners. At my side as a BJJ purple belt of 40 years old I have matured to become an assistant of the teachers for the kids classes, being a sparring partners for the teenage classes and the laddies competition team, as well federating the other teammates, being in charge of logistics for competition, a volunteer for my academy...etc
I unfortunately left my previous academy because I moved back to my country for family reasons. In my previous country even there were champions academy I would still stay in my academy because of the fun atmosphere I had with so many men and women from around the world, which is even more important than belts and medals. And I am still having nostalgy.
But remember these: BJJ doesn't pay your bills, BJJ has to become effective as a self defense methods against untrained agressors.

Thanks for the response! I agree with a lot of what you said for sure

 

[Kbits]

Well its kind of like accepting a new job: would you leave your cushy job down the street from where you live where you are comofrtable but not really challenged for another job thats 20 miles further away for a $5K salary increase? How about if its for a $20K salary increase?

If I leave my academy for another one it might be a marginal improvmenet, but with ATOS I know that I will be getting the best of the best 100%. Its the $20K new job offer basically

Bad analogy. That $5K 'extra' pay is going to cost me more in car wear and tear, travel time and aggravation, to the point at which it isn't may not be worth the effort.

The better / smarter play would be to figure out how to save/earn an extra $5K from where I am now.

IOW, you need to calculate the opportunity-cost for what you're proposing re: ATOS. The grass may not be as green as you think.

 

[mataleaos]

Thanks man. I do compete, but honestly just maybe 3 times a year or so.

Same here man.

BTW I've had several friends uproot and go to Atos and AOJ and they got a lot from the experience but ultimately moved back because "it wasn't as fun" as training at our school (which sounds like yours from how you describe it)

 

[kying418]

Lots of really good schools will promote people to purple belt after three years, if they are training 4 to 5 times a week- especially if you also have a full time job and a family (and are most likely not a young active competitor)

 

[sb413197]

My goal is when I am rated a purple, that means I am a purple belt who can hang with all other purple belts from any academy with exception of exceptional competitors and/or way younger or bigger than me. I hesitate to use the term "hobbyist" because I do complete. Not at Worlds or Pan levels, mind you, but things like Grappling X and IBJJF opens, etc.

I dont want to be called a purple, go do open mats at X academy (bonus: I am in San Diego and I don't need to tell you the quality of well know academies here), and feel like a white belt rolling against other purple belts.

I dont want to be a world champ (that ship has sailed a long time ago), I don't care about submitting people, and I don't even care about winning rolls per se, I just don't want to get smashed by others who, for some reason or another, are ranked at my same rank. This devalues what I earned and it means what I have isn't worth the cloth thats wrapped around my waist after years of training.

Interesting problem to have - the usual reason that some gyms and trainees delay promotions is to artificially inflate their tournament performance (sandbagging - giving them an advantage over the competition because they've been training longer) - I've even heard of some gyms who deliberately hold back their competitors for that very reason - but in your case it sounds like you just want to feel good about your promotion and feel it is well-deserved.

If you like your current gym's instruction and the culture there, another option could be to just train like a demon so that you actually DO feel worthy of the belt when it is tied around your waist, and if you end up getting the promotion too early (in your mind) keep training like a demon so that you spend as little time being "overbelted" as possible. In that case, the promotion would basically be serving a great purpose - to motivate your progression. There have been BJJ athletes that have progressed phenomenally fast by training a lot.

Something to realize is that when you are first promoted, you will be on the lower end of the skill spectrum for that new belt. That's kind of inevitable - unless again your gym sandbags. Also, people get a little too hung up about belts IMO - enjoy the journey and learn BJJ.

If I were you, I wouldn't switch gyms. Your current gym works for your lifestyle and 15 years from now when you're a 2-stripe blackbelt looking back at your journey and the time spent with your family, I bet you'll value that more than the extra medal you got as a bluebelt by switching to a different gym....if it even results in THAT - you might end up quitting BJJ due to the burnout and inconvenience of the new gym, or getting injured etc...I would probably just stay at your current gym. But that's just me - everyone has different priorities and for the hardcore competitor who wants to devote their life to BJJ switching gyms might be the right call.

 

[Evenflow80]

Same here man.

BTW I've had several friends uproot and go to Atos and AOJ and they got a lot from the experience but ultimately moved back because "it wasn't as fun" as training at our school (which sounds like yours from how you describe it)

Whoah, really? I wonder why. Maybe the intensity level? This is the first response I got with first hand accounts of people being at ATOS.

Also curious how your coach/professor felt about them coming back, was there tension or resentment?