Would you leave your Academy/Gym if they promote too fast?

[NoSmilez]

If you are not going to be some world champion or make bjj your livelihood. I think better choice is to choose your kid...

 

[3879]

For blue belts? Hell my instructor didn't even know when I competed at a local IBJJF open. He was pretty pissed afterwards actually.

I know for others (Grappling X maybe?) my professor got an automated email telling him I registered, but thats about is as far as I know.

New IBJJF rules - everyone has to have a yearly IBJJF membership, which means their instructor has to verify their belt (along with paying $40). Previously that only applied to black belts.

 

[Evenflow80]

New IBJJF rules - everyone has to have a yearly IBJJF membership, which means their instructor has to verify their belt (along with paying $40). Previously that only applied to black belts.

WTF. More ways to gouge money out of people it sounds like.

 

[andrewm2211]

 

[Foppa21]

Well a former teammate who secretly just left and joined Atos told me the level of other blue belts there is way, way, way better than any blue at our academy. I can assume its the same at purple and later belts. I made another topic asking exactly how he does promote (if anyone trains there) and so far no one who trained there has responded. The general consensus though given the repuation of the Atos guys (and gals), its doubtful he promotes based on just attendance like it is at my academy.

I think I will get a much better feel of my actual progression and overall skill when I go to open mat at Atos soon...

Law of numbers. We tend to remember the outliers. I'm sure ATOS has average coloured belts too.

 

[Foppa21]

Why was he pissed?

TS already answered but I'll expand a bit more from my experiences view.

• Some want to know so they can help you in any way (without or without physically being there to corner you). Help you prepare. Maybe watch out for and give you specific rounds and training partners
• Some just want to know
• Some of the more old schoolers want to know so that it's a form of asking for permission to 'fly their flag" lest you bring shame upon the school name

 

[Evenflow80]

TS already answered but I'll expand a bit more from my experiences view.

• Some want to know so they can help you in any way (without or without physically being there to corner you). Help you prepare. Maybe watch out for and give you specific rounds and training partners
• Some just want to know
• Some of the more old schoolers want to know so that it's a form of asking for permission to 'fly their flag" lest you bring shame upon the school name

Can I be honest with you?

I like my professor personally, but i always feel he is insecure about us pitting ourselves against anyone outside our organization (which is, you guessed it, Gracie Barra). For example at least at our GB academy only other GB members can drop in on open mat. Even as a brand new white belt this always seem fishy to me and raised a red flag. I dont know of any other academies that have that kind of restriction. I mean why? Afraid they will kick our ass and lure us to their academy?

 

[JustTheTip]

I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but from what I read you should stay where you are.Put your family first.
As far as promotions, in my observations it is better to be promoted a little too fast rather than way too slow. I used to train at an academy that promoted very slow and very randomly.For example there was an older guy that trained 3 days a week and it took him 10 years to get a Blue belt. Belt for belt, the students at this school were slightly above the average of students at that belt in the area,but when you looked at experience vs experience, they were way behind other academies that promoted faster. In my observations,people can grow into their belt. As a purple belt, you will have more expectations of yourself then you would as a Blue belt. When you go to open mats, you will likely be rolling with other Purple belts instead of Blue belts and when you do roll with Blue belts, you will expect to get the better of them. Instead of looking at each belt as a goal, I suggest looking at the overall goal of being a good BlackBelt. Getting and competing as a Purple Belt will move you toward that goal faster and more efficiently than staying a Blue Belt. The only time I see fast promotions hurting people is when it is someone prone to ducking hard rolls because of their ego and insecurity at the belt. As long as you don't do this, you will be fine.

 

[JustTheTip]

Can I be honest with you?

I like my professor personally, but i always feel he is insecure about us pitting ourselves against anyone outside our organization (which is, you guessed it, Gracie Barra). For example at least at our GB academy only other GB members can drop in on open mat. Even as a brand new white belt this always seem fishy to me and raised a red flag. I dont know of any other academies that have that kind of restriction. I mean why? Afraid they will kick our ass and lure us to their academy?

OOps...just saw this. I'd suggest leaving that academy and going elsewhere where your family life won't suffer. In SD you have a number of choices.

 

[mataleaos]

Thanks for the reply man, appreciate it.

I have basically 4 options:

1) Stay at current academy and stay loyal as you say. There are a ton of advantages of staying where I am, not least it allows more time with my family.

2) Move to Atos and get best instruction in the world. Not everyone is lucky enough to live in same city as such a good academy. Downside is like I said I can then only make the night classes and so won't see my 6 year old 4 nights a week as he will be asleep by time I get home.

3) Stay in current academy and try my best to work with what I have. Accept promotion to purple even though I feel strongly its not earned. However, attend open mats at Atos each Saturday to test myself against legit blues and purples. Iron sharpens iron and all that.

4) risk my marriage by joining BOTH. That is $350 a month. Attend equally each week or whenever possible, favor Atos.

I just want to address #2 and #4 first.

2. Only you know what you value my G, but one day you will hold your kid in your arms for the last time, play catch with him one last time, and all that stuff. And you'll probably not know it's the last time when it happens. Kids grow up so fast. I say this as a guy without kids yet. And if you go with option 2 that's okay but just think long and hard on the fact that those 4 nights a week that you don't see your kid will will add up to be more hours than you might realize.

4. I'm all for live and let live but don't risk your marriage either. Not sure how serious you are there but so many relationships don't work. It'd be a shame if you have a good one and lose it because it puts too much of a financial strain on your life together.

Okay so with that out of the way I would stay at your academy if you like everything but the fast promotions. I know it is frustrating to feel like you aren't ready for a belt yet or maybe you have competitive goals you want to hit and you're being pushed too fast to hit them. But at the end of the day it can be a good thing to learn how to grow into a new belt. It can push you really hard and make you motivated to level up to really feel like you have earned the rank.

Not to mention as you get older life has a way of taking you off the mat, be it for injuries, work, family, moving, or what have you (especially in your 30s and 40s). I know a lot of very dedicated and bad ass motherfuckers that got sidelined for various reasons at blue or purple for long stretches, and the realities of life have them in spots where they will likely never get to black belt. A lot of people may disagree with me b/c black belt and even the skill of one isn't the end goal we should strive for. But it's not a bad thing to want either.

And if you do get taken off the mat for an extended period I think it's better to have some more color under your belt. It is always going to help you (especially if you have to move to a new location and restart at a new school) to have more color on your belt and to not be a guy that's been a blue or even a purple belt for half a decade already.

 

[Foppa21]

Can I be honest with you?

I like my professor personally, but i always feel he is insecure about us pitting ourselves against anyone outside our organization (which is, you guessed it, Gracie Barra). For example at least at our GB academy only other GB members can drop in on open mat. Even as a brand new white belt this always seem fishy to me and raised a red flag. I dont know of any other academies that have that kind of restriction. I mean why? Afraid they will kick our ass and lure us to their academy?

So number 3 then... that's cool it is what it is. No one apart from them and their students have to like it.

Some also think of it as "we don't want them training with us cos we don't want the to know our secret moves.

 

[JustTheTip]

is that really how anyone feels though? I mean sure its nice to say we are all bigger than a piece of cloth around our waist, but are you saying if you have, say, a purple belt and then go do open mats across a dozen different academies and in each one of them you are conisistently toyed with by other purples, you wouldn't question why that is at all? Or question the quality of the teaching you are get?

We put a ton of time, resources, and effort into BJJ. This isn't a martial art where you get a black belt in 2 years.

I used to frequent open mats quite a bit and saw this happen alot. The thing is, they catch up as long as they stay with it.

 

[TheMood]

I think you should not worry so much. You have a family and a day job. Those should be your priorities. Bjj is a hobby for you since it is not paying the bills. Would you honestly risk your family or marriage for another hobby?

 

[3879]

Can I be honest with you?

I like my professor personally, but i always feel he is insecure about us pitting ourselves against anyone outside our organization (which is, you guessed it, Gracie Barra). For example at least at our GB academy only other GB members can drop in on open mat. Even as a brand new white belt this always seem fishy to me and raised a red flag. I dont know of any other academies that have that kind of restriction. I mean why? Afraid they will kick our ass and lure us to their academy?

Pretty normal, a lot of schools have internal open mats only. I'm in a major city and I can think of at least three schools here that have internal open mats only. It also may be an affiliation rule that he has to follow.

 

[Balto]

Galvao tied my purple belt around my waist (Atos affiliate on the East Coast). I also have two children.

I would choose your family. I am 99% sure Galvao himself would tell you exactly the same thing if you went to his school and presented your choice to him.

I think you are giving yourself a false dilemma here too. There are probably more choices available to you than current gym or Atos HQ. Look around and try to find some middle way that works for you.

P.S. Galvao tying your purple belt won't give you magic powers. You'll still get tapped by whites and blues on occasion. You'll also tap browns and blacks on occasion. This will be the case no matter who ties the belt or otherwise approves of your promotion.

 

[Forceof1]

For a grown ass man, you are giving far to much creedence to tje color of a cloth belt, far to much concerns about the opinion of a know nothing blue belt kid, and far to little creedence to the importance of family.

Your goal should be to enjoy BJJ as a hobby. If you can't enjoy training and rolling with people because you feel "unworthy" about your belt, you better stop now before you get any older, any more injuries, etc. Because that shit doesn't go away or get better.

I'm an almost 40 year old hobbyist brown. Had a young kid from another gym the other night come in (22, wrestler, etc) wearing a blue belt, and it was all I could do to not tap and somewhat contain him. IF I'm you, it sounds like cause for an extenstential crisis. If I'm me, I say nice roll, wish I was 25 again, and huff and puff to the next roll. Then I go home to my house, kiss my wife, prepare my kids for bed and have a shower beer.

I've done martial arts for 30 years- BJJ should be an enjoyable part of life. It isn't life. Especially for an adult hobbyist.

Keep your schedule. Spend time with your family. Improve as you can. But fucking remember why you do this, and don't let your "zen warrior fucking samurai asshole" ideals disrupt a pretty good thing and fun hobby. (bonus points to whoever identifies movie that quote came from).
Pro tip- 99 % of the people you train with are much more worried about their journey and performance than your own.

 

[Kbits]

Funny timing...am just sitting down at the laptop, trying to figure out how to balance training, work, kiddo, wife etc.

I get completely where you're coming from.

Can I offer a third perspective?

It's not really about the belt; it's about what YOU think the belt represents, as a right of passage. Correct? You want to be a "legit purple belt".

But you better believe that as shitty as you think you are, there are others at your belt level that are worse...much worse. And those that are much better. So...wat do?

What you're really after is some sort of sense of having 'earned' the belt.

It seems to me your option 3 is a good one, in terms of family balance - which is important. It also gives you the touchstone of the occasional Sat open mat training at ATOS, so you can gauge your progress.

So, instead of coming up with compromises, why not stick with what works AND focus yourself towards something that represents a right of passage for you? Eg: a big, national competition (that you have to spend 6-8 months preparing towards), a week long camp, etc. Earn your -own- self respect. Set your own rubric and give yourself your own gold stars...because no one else gives as much as shit as you.

Eg: I did a week long wrestling camp this in January. I did it for me. You better believe that I was no match for the 18yr old who trains 6 days a week, twice a day and is competing in the Youth Olympics.

But...I did it. And I didn't quit. And that's worth something, in terms of being ok. (And reality, being ok by our standards is probably a fucking super-power by the average middle age joe)

www.reddit.com/r/judo/comments/adufgo/41_years_old_at_wrestling_camp_training_45_hrs_a/

Pick something like this to orient to every year and forget about "idealised" comparisons. You're not the kid who's 15 years younger than you and fucked off to ATOS. You're you, with your own shit going on. Calibrate your own win.

My $0.02

 

[cugnao]

As the title says, would you leave your academy if they promoted based on minimum IBJJF time standards?

I am considering leaving my academy because I don't want my purple at exactly 3 years of training. There is also no way I can request my professor to hold off on it because he will definitely get offended. For the time and effort you put into this sport, as a purple belt I want to be be able to walk into any academy on Earth and hang with other purples, but that is simply not possible simply due to the fact that the average time to get a purple belt is about 5+ years at best.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts and experiences with getting promoted too quick, and its not based on competition results or anything like that, just time training and coming in 4-5 days a week.

FYI, the academy I am thinking of switching over to is Atos HQ. Its less convienent than the one I am at right now, and it means I won't see my family 4 nights a week at all since by time I get home after night classes my youngest will be in asleep, but at least I will know for a fact that when Galvao says I am a purple belt, it will be without question that I am a purple belt and able to hang with any purple in the world (that's not a world champ or anything like that)

Thank you for your thoughts

Edit: I should clarify that not seeing my 6 year old 4 nights a week if I switch to Atos is weighing heavily on me, and its probably why I will NOT switch, but the temptation is really there and its extremely strong. Also despite my dissatisfaction with my current academy, I still do consider my teammates to be the closest friends I've ever had, so leaving them behind is extremely hard as well.

Difficult choice, you are currently training in an academy for a while and having your teammates and it's very convenient to your home so you can balance your hobby and your private life.
If you leave your academy for ATOS, ok it's a top notch academy and you will have a better tuition in teaching but you have to rebuild your relations with your new teammates and it's less convenient.
But the most important as a hobbyist is to have fun, competition is a bonus.
My new purple buddy joined our academy because the atmosphere got sour with his former BJJ instructor, otherwise he won't have left his former academy.
As a hobbyist, when a teacher gives you the purple belt you have more responsabilities like taking care of the beginners. At my side as a BJJ purple belt of 40 years old I have matured to become an assistant of the teachers for the kids classes, being a sparring partners for the teenage classes and the laddies competition team, as well federating the other teammates, being in charge of logistics for competition, a volunteer for my academy...etc
I unfortunately left my previous academy because I moved back to my country for family reasons. In my previous country even there were champions academy I would still stay in my academy because of the fun atmosphere I had with so many men and women from around the world, which is even more important than belts and medals. And I am still having nostalgy.
But remember these: BJJ doesn't pay your bills, BJJ has to become effective as a self defense methods against untrained agressors.

 

[cugnao]

WTF. More ways to gouge money out of people it sounds like.

Carlos Gracie Jr needs to buy a new cadillac...

 

[lechien]

Thats exactly it: 1 year to blue and 2 more to purple. Based on nothing at all except 3X a week average attendance. Actual skill seems to have zero bearing on it, neither does competing. I have not seen anyone consistent NOT get promoted either a stripe or belt on time. This bothers the hell out of me to be honest.

Ok. To be fair, I just follow the system I was created on.

You know. It is hard to understand.

1 stripe per 6 months

2.5 years per belt unless you show some competition results.

But otherwise, 2..5 years per belt is not bad .

10 years to black belt.

Of course, people come but it is a good stick for measure.

Some people might time served is over rated but it is quantifiable.

But personally, family comes first.
So if your current instructor has shorter time frame for his own reasons.

Don't sweat it. Enjoy the journey. I had my share of students that felt inaquate on their bekt but no one including myself made them fell bad about it.

As we get older, we totally understand and appreciate the old boys taking care of family first