Crime Woman in Minneapolis Executed by ICE Officers; White House Reflexively Hand Waves Murder

[nhbbear]

I could be wrong (@nhbbear can maybe clarify) but from what I understand if a cop draws and fires they are trained and instructed to do so to kill and be sure they’re dead. Anything less would serve to question if their life was actually in danger or if the cop was acting in defense of their own life.

So, I am going to go a couple ways with this one.

First and foremost, cops don’t “shoot to kill” they are actually trained to “shoot to stop the threat” but they are absolutely trained to shoot vital targets-torso and if that isn’t available, head or you do a double tap to the chest and one to the head-we used to do that drill all the time. Another reason cops aim center mass is that it is the biggest part of the body and thus the easiest to hit under stress and it is the area that contains the most vital organs that is more likely to put a suspect down. Sure, a headshot is always your best bet to take someone out, but remember the head is a smaller target and thus, harder to hit especially while under duress.

Second, I really can’t make up my mind definitively one way or the other on this one. Why did they stop her? What were their intentions if they got her stopped? That matters to me a lot.

Third, as for the actual shooting-when I watched the videos, I couldn’t actually tell which one fired at first-I saw the elevated video first that shows the officer almost get hit. Then I saw the one where the officer grabs her door handle and I still wasn’t immediately sure because you see bullets striking the windshield near the officer that grabbed the door handle. I also have to add that I watched this after I had taken ambien as well, which can fuzzy the eyesight a bit. I don’t get fucked up or anything. The first couple times I took ambien, I had a hell of a fucking trip- but it seems you get inoculated to it very quickly and even if you go quite a while without taking one, that first wild trip never comes back. It’s either like “chasing the dragon” as they used to say with opium or it actually reminds me more of Stephen King’s “The Dome” where people feel a shock and see a vision the first time they actually touch the dome but then it never happens again.

Anyway, I am rambling.

So on to my next point. Why did the officer fire two more times when he stepped out of the way? That one’s trickier. First, use of force should cease once the threat is passed, so by that thinking, once he was definitively out of the way, he should shoot anymore-in theory, at least. However, there are two caveats there.

First, the easy to explain one. That officer doesn’t know if there are any officers behind him that are possibly in the path of her vehicle and he felt he had to act and act immediately or she would be passed him and if there was an officer behind him, he would miss his chance and would never have the time to first check if there is an officer in her path and be able to react.

Second, there are so many studies that try to gauge an officer’s reaction time and how long it takes the human brain to first, detect a threat, second you process that information and label it as a threat, third you make decision to act-and fourth-you act, ie draw gun if not out already and shoot.

Now, after making the decision to shoot and you actually shoot, now you have to go back down the ladder when it’s time to stop shooting. You have to perceive that the threat is passed, process that information, tell your body to stop pulling the trigger which is a trained and untrained reflex at that point, then the “stop shooting” signal has to travel back down the body to the hands


Hope this helps or was what you were seeking

 

[rikibobby]

What job were they doing? Their boss stated on record the had completed all official duties for the day. So please tell us what job they were actively working on.

Sure looked like they were still on the clock, you know having their uniforms on, being in care and control of company vehicles and you know, giving orders. This is not hard to understand. If they were in plain clothes you might have an argument. Who gives a fuck what the person interviewed said?

 

[TrueBias]

Generally people think the the government won't try to call others domestic terrorists and lie about how the agents were hurt. Generally people think that agents are taught to follow guidelines that include de-escalation and moving out of the way of vehicles for their own safety. Generally people expect agents not to create public safety risk. But apparently some just go, "well the agents have guns and should look for reasons to use them".

Hey, I dont know, but i do know that they didnt know she wasnt going to run them over. Its basically a wash. Too difficult to prove either way and these guys get fucked threats all the time.

Im just speculating, like everyone else in here. I see nothing more than plausible deniability.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

But he got out of the way easily. Shooting that poor woman didn’t stop the car from coming forward, he had time to shoot her dead and still avoid being run over.

Doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. Police get way more discretion in matters of life and death.

Would be nice if even the left could see how she contributed to her own death.

 

[Natural Order]

She was a paid agitator? Her wife got out of the car to film her blocking the road. She spins out hard, and if the road isn't icy he is run over. There were 4 incidents of people using cars against law enforcement that day. Tension is high. People have been shooting at ICE. People are hitting them with cars.

I hate her being shot. But, why is she blocking roads and trying to run people over? Like, find the fuck out.

These guys are not traffic cops and shouldn't be putting themselves into the front region of a vehicle for ANY reason. They were frustrated (as evidenced by cop pulling gun immediately when she starts reversing) and it lead to what you see. And it's precisely what they've found as the general reason for almost all vehicle shootings of similar nature within their agency......frustrated agents willfully putting themselves in the front of vehicles to create a scenario that can justify them using their gun. This is real psychology at play and when it's in the brain of a meathead hillbilly with poor decison making skills to begin with...you're bound to see things like this.

As I said earlier, the whole scenario is a big picture wake up to most Americans that nobody is thinking clearly these days.

 

[kflo]

From the time the officer grabs the door handle to the first shot is 3 or 4 seconds.

Its <1.5 from the time the cars moves forward to the shot. I dont think its unreasonable that the officer thought he was being ran over.

I question the 2nd and 3rd shot. It has nothing to do with partisanship.

again, if you think you're about to get run over, would you:
1. immediately get out of the way; or:
2. draw your firearm
?

he drew not to protect himself, but to stop her from leaving

 

[rikibobby]

Doesn't matter. Watch close - the person stepped in front of the car.

As she was being detained and ordered to get out of the car. You can clearly hear them screaming at her to get out of the car. This was an arrest. He was in her way to stop her from driving. She chose to drive. In hindsight that was a dumbass decision.

 

[kflo]

Doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. Police get way more discretion in matters of life and death.

Would be nice if even the left could see how she contributed to her own death.

would be nice if you could see how THEY created the situation and turned it into a crisis situation.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

Why wasn’t the driver of the other car parked on the road exactly like hers detained? How did the agents get off the road with that car there and the driver not arrested?

why don't you cry this hard every time a police officer does this, almost every day? It's an ice officer and suddenly youre offended by it

 

[fedoriswar37]

She is on audio and video waving the ICE truck by, I don’t know how many times this needs to be said.

When he had his gun pointed dumb dumb. You keep latching onto one point like its the only thing that happened. Stop frothing at the mouth and think.

 

[b34stmode]

Sure looked like they were still on the clock, you know having their uniforms on, being in care and control of company vehicles and you know, giving orders. This is not hard to understand. If they were in plain clothes you might have an argument. Who gives a fuck what the person interviewed said?

What were they actively investigating then? Are you saying their own boss, Naomi, lied on the record?

Did you miss the part ICE agents aren’t regular LE? Why were they conducting a traffic stop?

 

[fedoriswar37]

Why would someone walk around to the front of a car from someone's blind side? Like is this a game to make sure the absolutely wrong thing happens.

Because small ego man wanted to intimidate stupid fucking lady.

 

[kflo]

As she was being detained and ordered to get out of the car. You can clearly hear them screaming at her to get out of the car. This was an arrest. He was in her way to stop her from driving. She chose to drive. In hindsight that was a dumbass decision.

doe ICE have authority to perform local police duties?

 

[Darkballs]

1- you assume the ofgicer is Christian

That was a reference to you and how you repeatedly tell lies.

For instance, how you keep repeating that the officer was in front of the car and was about to be hit.

 

[scoopj]

Why do they have to put a music soundtrack on that?

At least pick a more appropriate song. Like Dave Matthews Crash into me perhaps.

 

[BFoe]

Doesn't matter in the eyes of the law. Police get way more discretion in matters of life and death.

Would be nice if even the left could see how she contributed to her own death.

It wasn’t a matter of life and death. The officer wasn’t in the path of that vehicle and wasn’t in danger, as evidenced by the fact that his actions didn’t stop the vehicles movement at all, and he is just fine.

Her behavior wasn’t optimum, but honestly I’m tired of hearing this kind of stuff from the Right. Like when that cop used the illegal chokehold to murder Eric Garner and the Right was like, “Welp, I guess he should be have been selling bootleg cigarettes then” or whatever. The ICE agent is the one who is supposed to have had the proper training to handle this properly.

Nothing that happened in this MN incident should have resulted in this woman’s death.

 

[Deaths Head]

doe ICE have authority to perform local police duties?

No .

 

[b34stmode]

why don't you cry this hard every time a police officer does this, almost every day? It's an ice officer and suddenly youre offended by it

I post every now and then in the cops thread on the dumb shit they do, for years. I also commend them when they handle situations good. What does that have to do with anything?

The reason I’m so angry on this one is our country is currently hiring people at an insane pace for ICE and then isn’t adequately training them before throwing them on the road to endanger peoples lives.

Do you know what ICE’s yearly budget is now that Trump took office?

 

[kflo]

When he had his gun pointed dumb dumb. You keep latching onto one point like its the only thing that happened. Stop frothing at the mouth and think.

What??

 

[Deaths Head]

At least pick a more appropriate song. Like Dave Matthews Crash into me perhaps.

OR..

AC/DC

Shoot To Thrill being it’s an actual murder ?

All you women who want a man of the street
But don't know which way you wanna turn
Just keep a-comin', and put your hand out to me
'Cause I'm the one who's gonna make you burn
I'm gonna take you down
Oh, down, down, down
So, don't you fool around
I'm gonna pull it, pull it, pull the trigger
Shoot to thrill, play to kill
Too many women with too many pills, yeah
Shoot to thrill, play to kill
I got my gun at the ready, gonna fire at will, yeah