wing chun or muy thai for self defense

[Babba]

Learn boxing from a credible amateur coach or start track and field.

Really though, learning - anything - for self defense is childish and fucking stupid. Get a fucking gun if you're so god damned scared that you've got to "learn self defense".

 

[nobleblack626]

i generally think there are alot of plain ole american kickboxers claiming to teach mauy thai and they do so by mimicing the poplar kick, knee, elbow etc,etc and teaching them to their students

Yeah I think so too lol. I knew this one girl who said she was taking thai kickboxing in her aerobics class. She said her instructor was hot and claimed he had a black belt in muay thai. I told her there are no belts in muay thai and she told me to shut up and not ruin her image of him.

It's kind of funny when I throw other knee's and elbows, blocks, combinations etc. Some of the guys who claim muay thai wonder what style I'm doing. I'm wondering how the hell do they not know moves from their own style.

 

[Nefron]

I agree with you though that most of the wing chun out there is crap. I have no qualms with that notion. But if you look and the fundamental make up of each system (MT & WC) they're not much different in broad form. They are both striking arts, both have punches, kicks, deflections and blocks. All have merit and all work as individual tools. Many techniques are shared even! The question is--how did you train to use those tools? That will determine how well you can use the system. That is why you have a lot of crappy wing chun. The training method that's being passed down is severely flawed because we now have the blind leading the blind in terms of actual fighting experience.

Well, I think we can agree that MT on average produces fighters, and that WC may produce fighters in an ideal set of circumstances (talented and hard working practitioner, good coach, good training methodology, good sparring partners) , but in general mosts schools suck.

Even the guys that are good fighters with WC, can't compare with kickboxing, MT etc. elite.

This is the exact reason I wound't recommend WC for anyone that is looking for self defence. The chances that he would find a good school are slim and most guys that train for self defense only don't have much time to train and are looking for a speed run on fighting which WC won't give them.

 

[MasterOfSparks]

I can think of a couple of guys who started off with wing chun that some say are pretty good. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned them in 9 pages. Granted they're better known for their films than their tournaments but I'm pretty sure some of their skills would be transferable.



Lee's combat movements were at times too fast to be captured on film at 24fps, so many scenes were shot in 32fps to put Lee in slow motion. Normally martial arts films are sped up.



It may be useful to know what Bruce Lee had to say about the question of style.

Bruce Lee - Lost Interview - Video

Chuck Norris
"Lee, pound for pound, might well have been one of the strongest men in the world, and certainly one of the quickest".

Dan Inosanto
"Bruce was only interested in strength that he could readily convert to power. I remember once Bruce and I were walking along the beach in Santa Monica. All of a sudden this huge bodybuilder came walking by, and I said to Bruce "Man, look at the arms on that guy" I'll never forget his reaction, he said "Yeah, he's big, but is he powerful???".

Doug Palmer
"Bruce was like the Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali in his prime, somebody who stood above everyone else. It's not that the other martial artists weren't good. It's just that this guy was great".

Herb Jackson
"The biggest problem in designing equipment for Bruce was that he'd go through it so damn fast. I had to reinforce his wooden dummy with automobile parts so he could train on it without breaking it. I had started to build him a mobile dummy that could actually attack and retreat to better simulate "Live" combat, sadly Bruce died before the machine was built. It would have been strung up by big high-tension cables that I was going to connect between two posts, one on either side of his backyard. The reason for the machine was simply because no one could stand up to his full force punches and kicks, Bruce's strength and skill had evolved to point where he had to fight machines.".

James Coburn
"Bruce and I were training out on my patio one day, we were using this giant bag for side kicks, I guess it weighed about 150lbs. Bruce looked at it and just went Bang, it shot up out into the lawn about 15ft in the air, it then busted in the middle. It was filled with little bits and pieces of rag, we were picking up bits of rag for months".

Jhoon Rhee - "You could show him a tremendously difficult technique that took years to perfect and the next time you saw him, he would do it better than you".

Jesse Glover
"When he could do push ups on his thumbs and push ups with 250lbs on his back, he moved on to other exercises".

"The power that Lee was capable of instantly generating was absolutely frightening to his fellow martial artists, especially his sparring partners, and his speed was equally intimidating. We timed him with an electric timer once, and Bruce's quickest movements were around five hundredths of a second, his slowest were around eight hundredths. This was punching from a relaxed position with his hands down at his sides from a distance between 18-24 inches. Not only was he amazingly quick, but he but he could read you too. He could pick up on small subtle things that you were getting ready to do and then he'd just shut you down".

BTW that part about reading your opponent comes from Chinese "Push Hands". You don't get that with Muay Tai.

 

[TMMAray]

Really though, learning - anything - for self defense is childish and fucking stupid. Get a fucking gun if you're so god damned scared that you've got to "learn self defense".

Quote of the year when it comes to "street fighting" and "self defense." Seriously, where the hell do these people live where they're constantly in situations where they have to fight to defend themselves? I get the impression that for most of these people "self defense" means "backing up the shit I talk when I get drunk."

 

[vorpal_]

weird that there is no video of bruce lee's superhuman feats minus YouTube - Bruce Lee Punching Heavy Bag

I get the impression that for most of these people "self defense" means "backing up the shit I talk when I get drunk."

hahahaha

 

[SAAMAG]

weird that there is no video of bruce lee's superhuman feats minus YouTube - Bruce Lee Punching Heavy Bag



hahahaha

Not everything will fall into your "it didn't happen unless it was on youtube" theory. I'd trust any one of those individual's eyewitness accounts. They've got no reason to lie, and they're reputable people.

Like I said...most people that train for real grab their mouthpiece before a video camera.

 

[Nefron]

Not everything will fall into your "it didn't happen unless it was on youtube" theory. I'd trust any one of those individual's eyewitness accounts. They've got no reason to lie, and they're reputable people.

Like I said...most people that train for real grab their mouthpiece before a video camera.

Pretty ironic, considering that Bruce spent more time acting in front of camera then fighting.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Pretty ironic, considering that Bruce spent more time acting in front of camera then fighting.

well yes he was an actor so its prety understanable that he well ya know..acted since it's what they tend to do :icon_chee

 

[MasterOfSparks]

weird that there is no video of bruce lee's superhuman feats minus YouTube - Bruce Lee Punching Heavy Bag

You must not have looked very hard. Maybe you're more interested in running your mouth? Took about 2 seconds to find this. Maybe if you stfu and did some research you'd find out how stupid your comments are.

 

[TenderLoving]

I think this thread needs some Rickson to balance the Bruce Lee.

 

[SAAMAG]

Well the Bruce lee just started...wait till they get to emin boztepe!

 

[Tone C]

Why not hunt around for a reality based self defence class...

 

[ArchAngelos]

There is the sport itself where one adaps kickboxing or whatever to it and it is them sport muay thai so to speak???

Then there is traditional muay thai???

This is a predominantly US phenomenon. Most everywhere else in the world considers Kickboxing to be Japanese, Dutch or K1 style, meaning, no elbows (sometimes called modified muay thai here in the USA).

"American Kickboxing" was called Full Contact Karate until Benny Urquidez and Don 'The Dragon' Wilson took the name "Kickboxing" back with them from fights in Japan in the 70's and 80's. Kickboxing was derived from Muay Thai in the 1950's by the Japanese and the only difference in the two arts at the time were that all Thai tradition(wai khru ram muay, mongkon, music, etc...) were abolished and the scoring system was completely changed.

The general names for the different styles of Kickboxing in order of most restrictive to least are American Rules (or Full-Contact), Low-Kick(no elbows or knees), K1, Dutch/Japanese rules and Full Muay Thai rules.

 

[CelticThunder]

The popular viewpoint is that Wing Chun is one of those riduculous old martial arts that was rendered obsolete with the dawn of BJJ in the UFC. In a cage fight with rules, BJJ and wrestling are more effective. In a real world street encounter, I would say that Muay Thai and Wing Chun and boxing are all more effective than BJJ or wrestling. One friend of mine who is a boxer and also studied Wing Chun was also a prolific street fighter and mopped the floor regularly with grapplers.

 

[ArchAngelos]

An in shape, intermediate level competitive martial artist is going to be able to defend themselves better than someone who doesn't train to compete every time.

Bruce Lee himself emphasized physical conditioning over mindless repetition of technique. To use Bruce as a Wing Chung reference when the man himself dismissed many of the classic training methods is ridiculous.

I'm not arguing for or against any particular arts, I'm arguing that physical fitness is just as important as the art itself.

 

[vorpal_]

You must not have looked very hard. Maybe you're more interested in running your mouth? Took about 2 seconds to find this. Maybe if you stfu and did some research you'd find out how stupid your comments are.

those aren't superhuman, i'm talking about the insanely outrageous shit that you quoted. HE LOOKED AT THE BAG AND SHOT IT UP INTO THE SKY MILES AWAY despite having the punching form of an amateur boxer and the speed of a heavyweight



you guys are seriously insane if you're into the bruce lee shit too. i'm not going to bother arguing it because you're obviously retarded in that case.

 

[SAAMAG]

those aren't superhuman, i'm talking about the insanely outrageous shit that you quoted. HE LOOKED AT THE BAG AND SHOT IT UP INTO THE SKY MILES AWAY despite having the punching form of an amateur boxer and the speed of a heavyweight



you guys are seriously insane if you're into the bruce lee shit too. i'm not going to bother arguing it because you're obviously retarded in that case.

Who said anything about being superhuman? The actual quote was "Bruce looked at it and just went Bang, it shot up out into the lawn about 15ft in the air, it then busted in the middle"

While this isn't a common occurance, Bruce's explosive power was confirmed on several occasions from several sources. All different individuals from all walks of life. He was obsessed with exercise and working out, and for punching and kicking he routinely worked on a 300 lb bag to help develop his power as well. Now as to the quote you decided to focalize on, I think that there may be some embellishment, like the bag may not have been 150lbs and the height may not have been 15 ft precisely; but the idea that he could hit it and launch it isn't so far fetched because I've know 2 guys in my life that could do about the same.

I have broken a few bags myself with side kicks in my lifetime--never with a punch though. So what's so superhuman about it?

You seem to not just be someone that "believes in using proven styles" but actually someone that is "ANTI wing chun/Bruce Lee/JKD/etc." Why get your panties in a bunch over it? Some people achieved great things in their lives like Bruce, and others have been able to make Wing Chun work for them in application. So what?

 

[Nefron]

The popular viewpoint is that Wing Chun is one of those riduculous old martial arts that was rendered obsolete with the dawn of BJJ in the UFC. In a cage fight with rules, BJJ and wrestling are more effective. In a real world street encounter, I would say that Muay Thai and Wing Chun and boxing are all more effective than BJJ or wrestling. One friend of mine who is a boxer and also studied Wing Chun was also a prolific street fighter and mopped the floor regularly with grapplers.

Care to elaborate?

Some people achieved great things in their lives like Bruce, and others have been able to make Wing Chun work for them in application. So what?

Some people made Wing Chun work, kinda. Other 98% can't fight their way out of a paper bag. A guy training boxing for some time is on average a good fighter.

Those few that made WC work aren't even close to the level of fighting prowess that elite boxers and kickboxers have. It obviously makes you hit a plateau at some point.

Now, how the fuck can you call WC equal to boxing? Just admit its inferior, but you can make it work under right circumstances. When guys ask what is better for self defense it usually means the want to learn to fight in a shortest amount of time possible, not dedicate their lives to making broken martial arts work.

 

[Shark Week]

people who lump bruce lee and jkd in with classical kung fu make my blood boil.

bruce lee was balls deep into boxing, you ignorant ****s.

EDIT: and, what the fuck? the speed of a heavy weight and the technique of an amateur? have you been dropping acid?

i don't even know how i can still be surprised by the shit lee haters will say. ugh.