wing chun or muy thai for self defense

[nefti]

usally there are experts who claim to have actually knowlage about tma and that other people "just don't know" or are just "ignorant". They don't know "Real so and so". But wen a guy like doughbelly posts his experience and backs it up... posters usually run for the hills.

 

[Nefron]

But I know a boxer against a White Dragon expert in a no rules match isn't going to have a prayer.

Why?

Your street vs sport argument fails.

 

[Nefron]

Now, I'm sure you WC guys all know about Shawn Obasi. He is on a quest to prove that WC works, and so far he had the best success of all the guys that tried using the chun.

He has been training WC for his whole life, and training it in an alive manner. Yet, he still doesn't have what it takes not to embarrass himself in M1 trieouts, let alone be accepted into the organization.

Shawn Obasi cries

Just look how pathetic he looks when he faced his failure. Reminds me of the way most WC nuthuggers act on the internets.

BTW the guy he is mouthing of to is Oleg Savitsky, a decorated combat sambo expert. For all the talk about TMAs (I hate that label) instilling good character traits, the sport fighter sure looked more composed. That is how real confidence looks like. If Oleg wanted to be a dick he could have just called him out to spar and humiliate him some more.

 

[Nefron]

Although he demonstrated no real fighting skills unlike Obasi, Emin Boztepe remains one of the most famous WC guys. Not many people know that he also trained Judo but for a very short time compared to his WC training.

Emin is also famous for jumping William Cheung, another WC master. Oddly enough, Emins judo kicked in and he took Cheung down. In a real fight, a WC master resorted to his limited grappling skills to defeat his opponent.

Cheung looked hopeless, spazing out while Emin easily controlled him. Take note that this is the only fight we have on video of two high level WC guys.



Clinch -> leg sweep -> side control, pure judo

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Although he demonstrated no real fighting skills unlike Obasi, Emin Boztepe remains one of the most famous WC guys. Not many people know that he also trained Judo but for a very short time compared to his WC training.

Emin is also famous for jumping William Cheung, another WC master. Oddly enough, Emins judo kicked in and he took Cheung down. In a real fight, a WC master resorted to his limited grappling skills to defeat his opponent.

Cheung looked hopeless, spazing out while Emin easily controlled him. Take note that this is the only fight we have on video of two high level WC guys.



Clinch -> leg sweep -> side control, pure judo

Actually it's two guys falling on their asses and then you cant tell what happens with the rest along with the fact Emin doesn't know any Judo. But thanks for playing:icon_chee

 

[MasterOfSparks]

Your street vs sport argument fails.

You're going to have to come up with a better argument than that. Why does it fail? And who made you the judge on the subject? As I mentioned before BJJ is useless against multiple opponents. You will get your head stomped in. And boxing isn't much better. If you have a defense for that let's hear it. Right now your argument is about as well founded and childish as "Nuh-uh". You've provided absolutely NO useful information. In fact you look pretty foolish. Have you ever even been in a fight?

 

[TenderLoving]

You're going to have to come up with a better argument than that. Why does it fail? And who made you the judge on the subject? As I mentioned before BJJ is useless against multiple opponents. You will get your head stomped in. And boxing isn't much better. If you have a defense for that let's hear it. Right now your argument is about as well founded and childish as "Nuh-uh". You've provided absolutely NO useful information. In fact you look pretty foolish. Have you ever even been in a fight?

I really hope you are trolling, because your Dim Mak-rant is just embarrassing. Lucky for us doing combat sports that your Kung Fu is just too deadly for the ring.

 

[Nefron]

Actually it's two guys falling on their asses and then you cant tell what happens with the rest along with the fact Emin doesn't know any Judo. But thanks for playing:icon_chee

Maybe you can't tell what happens. I bet you would say the same if you watched a wrestling match. It is quite obvious what is happening to anybody with an ounce of grappling knowledge:

Emin clinches. Emin throws William down and holds him in side control.

Emin trained with Gene Lebell and Gokor for some time. Shoot Gene an email if you don't believe me. He also trained at Gracie Torrance. Get your facts straight.

P.S. Even if you are right, which you are not, why does a REAL fight with 2 WC grandmasters result in 2 guys falling on their asses?

 

[Nefron]

Har har, what a coincidence. Cheung came to Belgrade. Just watched it on TV. He showed some self defence. Funny shit.

 

[Nefron]

You're going to have to come up with a better argument than that. Why does it fail? And who made you the judge on the subject? As I mentioned before BJJ is useless against multiple opponents. You will get your head stomped in. And boxing isn't much better. If you have a defense for that let's hear it. Right now your argument is about as well founded and childish as "Nuh-uh". You've provided absolutely NO useful information. In fact you look pretty foolish. Have you ever even been in a fight?

If a guy can take you down and hold a dominant position to land GnP in an MMA match, imagine how badly he could hurt you in a street fight where he can gouge your eyes and break your limbs.

Eye gouges and other "cheap shots" aren't the magic bullet you want them to be. You still need a strong delivery system, when you can land strikes in MMA you can easily change the target to groin for example.

Your boxing against multiple opponents argument has just been refuted by the poster below you. Now lets see WC against multiple opponents in a real fight.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Maybe you can't tell what happens. I bet you would say the same if you watched a wrestling match. It is quite obvious what is happening to anybody with an ounce of grappling knowledge:

Emin clinches. Emin throws William down and holds him in side control.

Emin trained with Gene Lebell and Gokor for some time. Shoot Gene an email if you don't believe me. He also trained at Gracie Torrance. Get your facts straight.

P.S. Even if you are right, which you are not, why does a REAL fight with 2 WC grandmasters result in 2 guys falling on their asses?

No not maybe. YOU CAN'T see what happens after the tumble it gets to dark.

Emin is a notorious fraud so i wouldn't believe anything of his claims and he sure didnt learn much from supposedly studying with Gene. I mean come on Cheung was in his FIFTIES at that time and not only did he jump him but he couldn't even finish him LOL

No i AM right as always.The "fight" proved nothing for both men or the style. Emin jumped Cheung,They both slipped on the floor then the tape gets too dark to see whats going on. Towards then end it looks like Emin is getting ready to run and it cuts out.

I don't know about you but i had a feeling wc guys could lose their balance and fall like the rest of us so that tape hasn't taught me much.

 

[Nefron]

No not maybe. YOU CAN'T see what happens after the tumble it gets to dark.

Emin is a notorious fraud so i wouldn't believe anything of his claims and he sure didnt learn much from supposedly studying with Gene. I mean come on Cheung was in his FIFTIES at that time and not only did he jump him but he couldn't even finish him LOL

I CAN. YOU CAN'T or won't.

I haven't seen Emin claim to have trained Judo. He is a member of the deadly anti grapple crowd after all. I have heard of his judo training from the guys that have trained with him at that time.

Do you think Emin would be able to do that to Randy in a few years? Kimura still kicked ass when he was that age. So did Mifune.

No i AM right as always.The "fight" proved nothing for both men or the style. Emin jumped Cheung,They both slipped on the floor then the tape gets too dark to see whats going on. Towards then end it looks like Emin is getting ready to run and it cuts out.

Do you have a problem with your vision? It does turn dark, but you can clearly see what is going on, except when obscured by the crowd.

At no point did Emin slip. It was a Tsurikomi ashi or something simlilar he threw William with. It was a foot sweep/ankle block throw.

You can then clearly see Emin holding side control and landing some GnP.

I mean, its futile to even discuss this further. Its like showing you something blue and then trying to convince you its blue. I'm too lazy to make the slow motion gifs, but really, is it necessary?

I don't know about you but i had a feeling wc guys could lose their balance and fall like the rest of us so that tape hasn't taught me much.

Yes, people seem to lose balance when facing better grapplers. I wonder why...

 

[MasterOfSparks]

I really hope you are trolling, because your Dim Mak-rant is just embarrassing. Lucky for us doing combat sports that your Kung Fu is just too deadly for the ring.

Wow. How impressive. A couple of boxers square off with some people who can't even stand up and didn't look like they were even trying to fight. They obviously didn't have any skills. You know the problem with you and the other ass clown is that you don't have any common sense.

 

[Nefron]

He has just shown you videos of boxing working against multiple opponents. Now you show us the same with WC.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

I CAN. YOU CAN'T or won't.

No you merely are trying to make something out of a silly dark blurry tape.

haven't seen Emin claim to have trained Judo. He is a member of the deadly anti grapple crowd after all. I have heard of his judo training from the guys that have trained with him at that time.

Well if you heard it from a guy that knew him once it must be true!

Do you have a problem with your vision? It does turn dark, but you can clearly see what is going on, except when obscured by the crowd.

At no point did Emin slip. It was a Tsurikomi ashi or something simlilar he threw William with. It was a foot sweep/ankle block throw.

There was a bjj blackbelt on another forum i used to frequent who stated the same thing and upon closer review at my encouraging he changed his mind and said it looked like they both fell.

That is one terrible sweep or throw if thats what emin is doing.

You can then clearly see Emin holding side control and landing some GnP.

He is in a dominant postion but you can't tell if the punches landed or even had any power behind them. Think about it if he was spanking the old man around on the floor why did his people darken the tape?

I mean, its futile to even discuss this further. Its like showing you something blue and then trying to convince you its blue. I'm too lazy to make the slow motion gifs, but really, is it necessary?

The only thing that is futile is people like you trying to make something fantastical out of this ridiculous incident. Ive never seen the littlest bunch of nothing getting turned into the biggest bunch of something. IT WAS A LAME FIGHT, NO ONE WON, GET OVER IT ALREADY.

Yes, people seem to lose balance when facing better grapplers. I wonder why...

LOL at you even considering Emin a grappler.

 

[Nefron]

No you merely are trying to make something out of a silly dark blurry tape.

Well if you heard it from a guy that knew him once it must be true!

Do you doubt that? Shoot Gene a mail and ask him then.

There was a bjj blackbelt on another forum i used to frequent who stated the same thing and upon closer review at my encouraging he changed his mind and said it looked like they both fell.

That is one terrible sweep or throw if thats what emin is doing.

Don't believe you. Watch it in slow motion, if you can't see the throw, you are blind.

He is in a dominant postion but you can't tell if the punches landed or even had any power behind them. Think about it if he was spanking the old man around on the floor why did his people darken the tape?

It doesn't matter how hard he punched. Probably like a girl, he does WC after all. That is not the point. Emin used his limited grappling to take and hold another master down in a street fight. He obviously thought it was more effective.

 

[vorpal_]

Wow. How impressive. A couple of boxers square off with some people who can't even stand up and didn't look like they were even trying to fight. They obviously didn't have any skills. You know the problem with you and the other ass clown is that you don't have any common sense.

common sense tells you not to believe in things that obviously don't work (or at the very least, have never been proven)

 

[vorpal_]

No you merely are trying to make something out of a silly dark blurry tape.

i hope you're trolling

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Do you doubt that? Shoot Gene a mail and ask him then.

LOL what does Gene have to do with anything? was he this "guy" you speak of?

Listen if i was to bother Gene i would ask him something useful. I know Emin is a crack pot and if he had spent extensive time grappling he would have subed or choked out a fifty year old chinese man who never took a grappling class in his life.

Don't believe you. Watch it in slow motion, if you can't see the throw, you are blind.

Believe what you want bro it's a free country.

It doesn't matter how hard he punched. Probably like a girl, he does WC after all. That is not the point. Emin used his limited grappling to take and hold another master down in a street fight. He obviously thought it was more effective.

Yes it does if his punches didn't land or didnt do any damage then he failed. He clearly had the tape blacked out for one of those reasons.

So he held him down? You do realize this wasnt a high school wrestling match and you don't get points for a pin right?

Again please stop making a big deal out of a much younger and bigger turkish gentleman temporarily laying on small old chinese man to no effect. it's making you look silly.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

i hope you're trolling

while i am making fun and posting this for a laugh my points are serious.The tape was ridiculous and the people who try to see it for more than it is are even more ridiculous

case closed