Why is NAGA so afraid of wrestlers?

[RJ Green]

Dont brah at me brah! I will brah harder than youve ever brahed!

No brah! I dont brah at *you* brah, but i brah, brah!

You brah at me, brah?

No brah! I dont brah at *you* brah, but i brah, brah!

You got beef brah?

I dont have beef brah!

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I don't like to argue much on sherdog but i don't like it when people make fun of my sport. Wrestling is a great base for mma. Lets see you do 220 sprawls with burpees, pushups, sprints, hindu pushups, and other stuff in between for 30 minutes.

with 1 water break where you drink from a bathroom sink.

Uh those things you listed arent exactly wrestling by strict definition. they are just lots of exercises done in a short amount of time, followed by poor hydration with unclean water.

 

[climax]

I was at a NAGA and they said no wrestlers in Novice (9 months and under of training) but were allowed in beginner and up. If the wrestling experience was relatively good then they said you should do intermediate. Seems fair enough.

I know NAGA likes to keep track and have an anti-sandbagging policy in place but I think it can go a little far. I saw a blue belt win a NAGA at intermediate and gi blue belt. He showed up to another NAGA in a different city and was told their anti sandbagging rules put him in advanced (no where near that training time) and in gi purple which was empty and he was moved to brown/black in gi. Still as a blue belt.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Dont brah at me brah! I will brah harder than youve ever brahed!

No brah! I dont brah at *you* brah, but i brah, brah!

You brah at me, brah?

No brah! I dont brah at *you* brah, but i brah, brah!

You got beef brah?

I dont have beef brah!

Sadly, I understood all of this.


Brah.

 

[DW18]

Uh those things you listed arent exactly wrestling by strict definition. they are just lots of exercises done in a short amount of time, followed by poor hydration with unclean water.

lmao couldn't have stated that any better lol.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I agree, though to be fair, a decade ago wrestlers (and everyone else) was being told that a blue belt in BJJ could beat black belts in judo, all-American wrestlers etc. So for those who believed the hype, it made sense not to include their wrestling experience, as it "obviously" didn't make any difference, they wouldn't have a chance against anything but novice level BJJ students.

Remember the threads where the scrawniest BJJ blue belt would tap Tyson in seconds? Kind of miss those, they were always unintentionally funny. I guess you still see this from time to time, odd ducks posting how as a two stripe white belt they tapped national level judoka and Olympic level wrestlers, but its half hearted trolling today.

But in the real world, wrestling (and judo and sambo and shiao jiao etc) experience should count for tournaments.

a decade ago, the blue belt requirmets I think were harder, wrestlers had no idea of subgrappling, and judo black belts still get sub by blue belts under bjj rules...

and tyson would get taped by most blue belts under bjj competitions, and even in a MMA situation, there are plenty bad ass blue belts who can tap him if they can take him to the ground, being tyson doesnt mean he can grapple, he sure as fuck can send that blue belt to the grave if he hits him with a cross or something though.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Sadly, I understood all of this.


Brah.

is this from the brah down.

 

[Balto]

Where are these wrestlers? You have seen them get worried personally?

Lol of course I have. So has anyone else who has ever stood in the weigh-in/registration room for any NAGA on the East Coast ever.

For a summertime Jersey Shore NAGA like Battle at the Beach, double this amount.

 

[KJGould]

Compete in other events until you feel your skill is ready for that of NAGA.

 

[Grapplingwizard**]

I was at a NAGA and they said no wrestlers in Novice (9 months and under of training) but were allowed in beginner and up. If the wrestling experience was relatively good then they said you should do intermediate. Seems fair enough.

I know NAGA likes to keep track and have an anti-sandbagging policy in place but I think it can go a little far. I saw a blue belt win a NAGA at intermediate and gi blue belt. He showed up to another NAGA in a different city and was told their anti sandbagging rules put him in advanced (no where near that training time) and in gi purple which was empty and he was moved to brown/black in gi. Still as a blue belt.

The thing thats stupid is the "no wrestlers in novice." What if I only wrestled one season? thats 4 months of training. What they should say is wrestling experience should be considered the same as BJJ/sub grappling. They are making novices entering intermediate because they have 4 months of wrestling experience which isn't even the limit of training time for novice (6 months)

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Novice is basically first time competitors, if you wrestled for one season you competed a lot.

 

[Grapplingwizard**]

Novice is basically first time competitors, if you wrestled for one season you competed a lot.

It is six months or less of training.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Yes, basically first time competitors.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Why should somebody who doesn't know how to defend submissions or pass the guard or submit somebody have to compete against someone who is reasonably competent at all of those things? Is it the wrestler's fault that the majority of BJJ guys just don't work hard enough on their takedowns?

NAGA has the idea of sort of having all the grappling styles going against each other to see who wins, so they treat all grappling experience as equal.

 

[DeathClutch]

Who cares about getting into beginner anyway? Compete higher, challenge yourself.

 

[Dirty Holt]

I would have a serious talking to if any of my wrestlers tried to go novice. Any wrestler with at least 1 season has no business in novice. The amount of mat time a guy gets with 1 year of wrestling is equal to about the same hours of 2-3 years of BJJ. Practice is everyday, 2 hours a day.

The wrestling midset should be to push yourself against the highest level of competition, not hide in lower divisions to get wins.

 

[MMA_Fan]

I would have a serious talking to if any of my wrestlers tried to go novice. Any wrestler with at least 1 season has no business in novice. The amount of mat time a guy gets with 1 year of wrestling is equal to about the same hours of 2-3 years of BJJ. Practice is everyday, 2 hours a day.

The wrestling midset should be to push yourself against the highest level of competition, not hide in lower divisions to get wins.

Agreed. I know high school wrestlers who after their freshman year were monsters when they joined BJJ.

 

[climax]

The wrestling midset should be to push yourself against the highest level of competition, not hide in lower divisions to get wins.

This. I never really was into wrestling but most of the guys that come from that background seem to want to challenge themselves and they usually go up a division or at least go where they believe they really belong (these events are expensive, you want to believe you will be competitive).

That being said, I find that most guys I have met in BJJ also do that. You get the odd set of people that rather sandbag to show off a metal, win, etc... than actually compete. You get people that will take advantage wherever they can, regardless of background.

Hell for me, I rather move up and lose and get the good experience or if you do win you beat some people you would not expect that you can, etc.. where if you sandbag and lose you feel like real shit. If you sign up where you should be than you are good either way (but losing does still suck =D )

 

[Grapplingwizard**]

NAGA has the idea of sort of having all the grappling styles going against each other to see who wins, so they treat all grappling experience as equal.

Kind of, but not really. They do allow all kinds of leg locks and neck cranks so they are allowing a lot of catch wrestling moves, but the scoring system and rules are based around bjj rather than wrestling or Judo or Catch (which is extremely rare so it doesn't matter as much). It is pretty much no gi bjj when you are competing no gi. It's not a "mix of grappling". If it was, they would award 1 or 2 points for holding someone's back/shoulders to the mat for like 30 seconds and give 1 point for escapes. They could also award 5 points for big throws which would allow wrestlers and judoka to easily keep up with the bjj guys since they aren't as good as submissions. And maybe 3 points for a takedown that puts the top man straight in side control or better. These are just some rules that i think would make it more "well rounded" and would allow wrestlers and judoka to compete competitively without spending much time learning bjj. And as for judoka I'm talking the standard Judo guy, not a rare type that does tons of newaza, a guy that spends 20% of the time on groundwork and even less on submissions.

 

[climax]

The thing thats stupid is the "no wrestlers in novice." What if I only wrestled one season? thats 4 months of training. What they should say is wrestling experience should be considered the same as BJJ/sub grappling. They are making novices entering intermediate because they have 4 months of wrestling experience which isn't even the limit of training time for novice (6 months)

If you wrestled for 4 months and had BJJ/Sub wrestling experience under the remaining 2 months I would say sign up for Novice. It is not like they are really going to be able to tell. How good are you going to be at wrestling after 4 months and once you hit the mat it will be pretty equal.

When they say "no wrestlers" in novice, I do not think it is for those with only very limited wrestling experience. There was guys who wrestled for years and would sign up for novice because they argued that they had no BJJ/Sub wrestling experience and therefore belong in Novice.

There is no straight answer, use your best judgement (or ask your instructor). Hell, see how you roll against guys in the gym who are 6> months experience and 6< months experience and that will help to see. If you win at Novice, you will be in beginner the next event anyway... (unless you wait a long time). If you wait a long time they will see that you won novice on X date and if it is a certain amount of time later they will put you in intermediate. (for NAGA's)