Why does Jon Jones need to fight Tom Aspinall?

[RockyLockridge]

You're not arguing though that Poatan moves up to HW and Jones keeps the belt and defends it against him are you??

I'm all for giving Jon some leeway. If he really wants to drop the HW belt and either fight Alex for the LHW belt or just do a fun HW superfight against him that's fine. But you cannot think Jones gets to keep the belt and skip over the interim champ who's a gazillion miles ahead of any other potential contender for the title.

I never once said I was for it, all I said was I understand why he's asking for it. Because Alex is a big name a big draw. Alex Vs Jones does more buys

 

[mkess101]

I never once said I was for it, all I said was I understand why he's asking for it. Because Alex is a big name a big draw. Alex Vs Jones does more buys

Probably yeah. Not sure it's really about the money though. The UFC can fix that with a guaranteed bonus that brings Jon's total pay up to what the projected amount would be with his ppv points in a fight with Alex. Jones says he wants "Fuck you money".

My view is that the money is part of it, but mostly it's him being risk averse at this point. He sees Poatan as a guy he can take down pretty easily and smash. He sees Aspinall as a MUCH bigger threat.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Probably yeah. Not sure it's really about the money though. The UFC can fix that with a guaranteed bonus that brings Jon's total pay up to what the projected amount would be with his ppv points in a fight with Alex. Jones says he wants "Fuck you money".

My view is that the money is part of it, but mostly it's him being risk averse at this point. He sees Poatan as a guy he can take down pretty easily and smash. He sees Aspinall as a MUCH bigger threat.

Yes that's what Jones is looking for. He's making these public statements as negotiation tactics he's not stupid. He's trying to take the UFC to the cleaners

 

[mkess101]

Yes that's what Jones is looking for. He's making these public statements as negotiation tactics he's not stupid. He's trying to take the UFC to the cleaners

Well I hope they pay him. I want to see him fight Aspinall. If that means he gets $25 instead of $15m or whatever, good by me.

 

[DrMurrayDolphin]

Shogun and Jon Jones' legacy is completely different. Jon has like 16 title defenses. At some point, you do get to call the shots. That was Shogun's first defense.

Bro, this is prize fighting, champs do not “call the shots” the fans and the promotion do. If the fans want Jones to fight and the UFC agrees, Jones doesn’t make money. End of story.

 

[HHJ]

Well I hope they pay him. I want to see him fight Aspinall. If that means he gets $25 instead of $15m or whatever, good by me.

Yes but will he deliberatley price himself out?

 

[RockyLockridge]

Well I hope they pay him. I want to see him fight Aspinall. If that means he gets $25 instead of $15m or whatever, good by me.

Jones hasn't been a company yes man for a while. he's always trying to get a bit more out of dana and the UFC the man is smart beyond most peoples understanding.

The Gane fight had a lot of Buzz and Pulled numbers (supposedly). Jones knows exactly what he's doing. Outside of pretty much Alex and Islam the UFC has no drawing fighters. Pantoja, Merab, Illa, Belal, DDP, Val, Weili, Pena are all not drawing fighters.

The UFC could use Jones drawing power now, more than ever. I know ESPN foots the bill of the PPV's up to a certain buy rate...

 

[mkess101]

Yes but will he deliberatley price himself out?

Maybe? Hard to know.

 

[MustangSally]

I don't blame Jones for one minute in not wanting to fight Tom Aspinall. He is going to be 38 years old and clearly not as hungry in the sport as he used to be. Tom is obviously a great fighter and is really hot right now, but the fight does nothing for Jones. If Jones were to win, then Tom loses his next HW fight by KO, the win means nothing. Ciryl Gane was just as dangerous of an opponent as Tom, and apparently now that win means nothing for Jones?

On the contrary, if Jones loses, it allows for people to say he sucks and was never any good, etc. MMA fans are fickle and judge fighters on their last fight. If he doesn't need the money, what does fighting Tom do for him?

And for anyone who thinks Jones has no chance against Tom, that is hilarious. Tom's only great win is against Sergei Pavlovich and it was a rock em sock em robot fight inside a minute. Tom has no formal wrestling background, and has a submission loss against a guy without a wikipedia. He is known for being a fast striker because Joe Rogan says so, but we have never even seen his gas tank. You think a guy with his size and frame can handle the unorthodox style of Jones for 25 minutes? I am getting Shane Carwin vibes completely.

Jon Jones isn't some random fighter who is trying to call his own shots, he is a legend who has been dominant for 16+ years and deserves the fights he wants at this point in his career.

Tom does not deserve to be the guy who gives Jones his first loss. The guy has fought on 2 PPV cards and is a no-name to anyone who isn't a reddit nerd. If someone like Pereira gave Jones his first loss, it is deserved and Jones has no issue with that. Legacy means everything when money doesn't.hy shouldn't Jones

I don't blame Jones for one minute in not wanting to fight Tom Aspinall. He is going to be 38 years old and clearly not as hungry in the sport as he used to be. Tom is obviously a great fighter and is really hot right now, but the fight does nothing for Jones. If Jones were to win, then Tom loses his next HW fight by KO, the win means nothing. Ciryl Gane was just as dangerous of an opponent as Tom, and apparently now that win means nothing for Jones?

On the contrary, if Jones loses, it allows for people to say he sucks and was never any good, etc. MMA fans are fickle and judge fighters on their last fight. If he doesn't need the money, what does fighting Tom do for him?

And for anyone who thinks Jones has no chance against Tom, that is hilarious. Tom's only great win is against Sergei Pavlovich and it was a rock em sock em robot fight inside a minute. Tom has no formal wrestling background, and has a submission loss against a guy without a wikipedia. He is known for being a fast striker because Joe Rogan says so, but we have never even seen his gas tank. You think a guy with his size and frame can handle the unorthodox style of Jones for 25 minutes? I am getting Shane Carwin vibes completely.

Jon Jones isn't some random fighter who is trying to call his own shots, he is a legend who has been dominant for 16+ years and deserves the fights he wants at this point in his career.

Tom does not deserve to be the guy who gives Jones his first loss. The guy has fought on 2 PPV cards and is a no-name to anyone who isn't a reddit nerd. If someone like Pereira gave Jones his first loss, it is deserved and Jones has no issue with that. Legacy means everything when money doesn't.

Why does Jones need to fight Aspinall? Because this is meant to be a sport and the whole point of combat sports is for the best at the time, or "hot" as you call it, to fight each other. Every mma-fan in their right mind, including Jones-fans and Aspinall-fans, should want this fight to materialise. If not you're not really a true fan of the sport mma

 

[OmegaRugal]

I don't blame Jones for one minute in not wanting to fight Tom Aspinall. He is going to be 38 years old and clearly not as hungry in the sport as he used to be. Tom is obviously a great fighter and is really hot right now, but the fight does nothing for Jones. If Jones were to win, then Tom loses his next HW fight by KO, the win means nothing. Ciryl Gane was just as dangerous of an opponent as Tom, and apparently now that win means nothing for Jones?

On the contrary, if Jones loses, it allows for people to say he sucks and was never any good, etc. MMA fans are fickle and judge fighters on their last fight. If he doesn't need the money, what does fighting Tom do for him?

And for anyone who thinks Jones has no chance against Tom, that is hilarious. Tom's only great win is against Sergei Pavlovich and it was a rock em sock em robot fight inside a minute. Tom has no formal wrestling background, and has a submission loss against a guy without a wikipedia. He is known for being a fast striker because Joe Rogan says so, but we have never even seen his gas tank. You think a guy with his size and frame can handle the unorthodox style of Jones for 25 minutes? I am getting Shane Carwin vibes completely.

Jon Jones isn't some random fighter who is trying to call his own shots, he is a legend who has been dominant for 16+ years and deserves the fights he wants at this point in his career.

Tom does not deserve to be the guy who gives Jones his first loss. The guy has fought on 2 PPV cards and is a no-name to anyone who isn't a reddit nerd. If someone like Pereira gave Jones his first loss, it is deserved and Jones has no issue with that. Legacy means everything when money doesn't.

I agree.

Gane win is being looked as a joke atm

Same could happen with Tom thanks to how quick fans are to discredit fighters

With that said ... i would love to see that fight

 

[mkess101]

I agree.

Gane win is being looked as a joke atm

Same could happen with Tom thanks to how quick fans are to discredit fighters

With that said ... i would love to see that fight

Like someone said, there will always be people who discredit wins. Gane definitely didn't want to be there that night. But that doesn't mean he's a bum or that the win isn't a legit top HW win. Gane is clearly a top tier HW.

Some Jones fans on this forum are using that weird rationale of "Bah even if Jon beats Tom the haters will just say Tom sucks." Umm yeah. Because that's what haters do. Pretty sure it's a bad idea to determine fights based on it though.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Like someone said, there will always be people who discredit wins. Gane definitely didn't want to be there that night. But that doesn't mean he's a bum or that the win isn't a legit top HW win. Gane is clearly a top tier HW.

Some Jones fans on this forum are using that weird rationale of "Bah even if Jon beats Tom the haters will just say Tom sucks." Umm yeah. Because that's what haters do. Pretty sure it's a bad idea to determine fights based on it though.

Just reread ur own post ... u yourself discredited the win over Gane without realizing it.

"Gane definitely didn't want to be there that night"

Why would you think that? Fighting Jon Jones ... for the HW belt ... why wouldn't he want to be there that night? Jones who hadn't fought in 3 years and never at HW and coming off his worst fight ever with Reyes? Why would Gane not wanna be there?

Did he truly look different?
Are you his close friend and he told u that?

No ...you just saying that cuz Jones won so easily.

Without realizing it ... u just discredited that win. No one does that to Gane except Jon Jones.

PS ... i know you didn't mean to discedit. But that's how easy it is to do so. I've been guilty of this as well.

 

[mkess101]

Just reread ur own post ... u yourself discredited the win over Gane without realizing it.

"Gane definitely didn't want to be there that night"

Why would you think that? Fighting Jon Jones ... for the HW belt ... why wouldn't he want to be there that night? Jones who hadn't fought in 3 years and never at HW and coming off his worst fight ever with Reyes? Why would Gane not wanna be there?

Did he truly look different?
Are you his close friend and he told u that?

No ...you just saying that cuz Jones won so easily.

Without realizing it ... u just discredited that win. No one does that to Gane except Jon Jones.

You think it's only me who noticed it? He offered no resistance and looked like a shell of anything resembling a top guy. Now maybe a lot of that is the way Jones got in his head and that's a talent Jones has. I listen to MMA today and multiple people in and around the sport (Din Thomas, Anthony Smith, Alan Jouban) made the EXACT same observation. Gane seemed to be looking for a way out as soon as he got in there. Say what you want about Stipe being washed, old etc but at least the guy didn't want to quit. He easily could've stopped moving and covered up in rd 1 and let the ref stop it but he didn't. Gane quit, he quit early and without wanting to try to do anything to stay in the fight, and that's obvious to anyone who knows the sport at all.

The answer is YES Gane looked truly different and if you are blind to that I'm not sure what to tell ya. It's still a top win for Jones and if he got in Cyril's head that much to make him look like shit that way, good on Jones.

 

[OmegaRugal]

You think it's only me who noticed it? He offered no resistance and looked like a shell of anything resembling a top guy. Now maybe a lot of that is the way Jones got in his head and that's a talent Jones has. I listen to MMA today and multiple people in and around the sport (Din Thomas, Anthony Smith, Alan Jouban) made the EXACT same observation. Gane seemed to be looking for a way out as soon as he got in there. Say what you want about Stipe being washed, old etc but at least the guy didn't want to quit. He easily could've stopped moving and covered up in rd 1 and let the ref stop it but he didn't. Gane quit, he quit early and without wanting to try to do anything to stay in the fight, and that's obvious to anyone who knows the sport at all.

The answer is YES Gane looked truly different and if you are blind to that I'm not sure what to tell ya. It's still a top win for Jones and if he got in Cyril's head that much to make him look like shit that way, good on Jones.

Let's try to be rationale here... WHY would he want out of there that fast? Why?

He hadnt taken any damage.
He wasn't tired.

Why would he want out?

 

[mkess101]

Let's try to be rationale here... WHY would he want out of there that fast? Why?

He hadnt taken any damage.
He wasn't tired.

Why would he want out?

People freeze up in certain moments for reasons we cannot rationally understand. And that manifests itself in an infinite number of ways.

Ever hear of Oliver McCall? He was a top tier HW boxer back in the day. He fought Lennox Lewis for the title and in the middle of the fight, McCall broke down and started crying. Like, really bawling. They had to call off the fight. Why, "rationally", would a guy do that?
On DWCS this season a guy who'd gone through a whole camp and traveled to Vegas for the fight decided in the locker room he couldn't fight. Wasn't injured, wasn't sick. Just...couldn't fight. Why would he put all that work in and then do that in the biggest moment of his career with a shot at the UFC? Sound "rational"?

 

[OmegaRugal]

People freeze up in certain moments for reasons we cannot rationally understand. And that manifests itself in an infinite number of ways.

Ever hear of Oliver McCall? He was a top tier HW boxer back in the day. He fought Lennox Lewis for the title and in the middle of the fight, McCall broke down and started crying. Like, really bawling. They had to call off the fight. Why, "rationally", would a guy do that?
On DWCS this season a guy who'd gone through a whole camp and traveled to Vegas for the fight decided in the locker room he couldn't fight. Wasn't injured, wasn't sick. Just...couldn't fight. Why would he put all that work in and then do that in the biggest moment of his career with a shot at the UFC? Sound "rational"?

Idk if I can trust you on that since you have offered zero actual evidence that Gane didn't want to be there.

The far more realistic reason why he got caught in that choked was that he didn't think he was in danger. I believe he himself said so. It was what it looked it to me as well. Jones was just that good and that sneaky

 

[Iroh]

And? You don't base title fights on what some ignorant fans that hate Jon Jones might say on Twitter.

He is the HW champ. There's an interim HW champ that already defended that belt once. Jon got his "legacy fight". Now he gets to decide: be looked at as the best HW in the UFC and fight the guy who's miles ahead of anyone else in line...or...vacate and retire or take more "legacy fights".

I'm not saying this is or isn't necessarily you but this is what we get when people are bigger fans of a specific fighter than they are of the sport in general. They don't want to see awesome fights that are the absolute clear next up because they're worried their guy will lose. They spin and twist to justify it, and use logic like "Well his haters will just say Aspinall was never any good anyway". Like we should allow Jon Jones haters to dictate who he fights next LMAO. People with brains know how good Aspinall is win or lose vs Jones.

I think a lot of people aren't even scared Jon will lose. They just buy into Jon's excuses, like I've seen so many people just repeat what he has said almost verbatim. People putting Jon on a pedestal and let him do the thinking for them. Some really think Jon is just too good to lose. Lol

It's weird because the dude is a well known liar, you'd think people wouldn't be fooled that easily and use a little more discernment. But at the same time, he is also charasmatic and he seems to charm a lot of people.
Also, some people just love that feeling of going against the masses and be a rebel. Unfortunately the cause they rebel for is often not as important as the act of rebelling itself.

 

[mkess101]

Idk if I can trust you on that since you have offered zero actual evidence that Gane didn't want to be there.

The far more realistic reason why he got caught in that choked was that he didn't think he was in danger. I believe he himself said so. It was what it looked it to me as well. Jones was just that good and that sneaky

So you ask me a question and I give you examples of why it's not a "rational" thing because that's what you asked...and then you just backtrack and decide you're gonna dump that whole "it's not rationale" line of thinking? The choke wasn't that tight. I've seen enough, been caught in enough, and applied enough guillotines to know when it's tight enough to tap. As have the guys from MMA radio I mentioned. It looked like Gane wanted a way out, and quickly. Not just to me, to a LOT of people who know the sport. You can pretend that's not valid because you think that discredits Jones, I don't really care. That's your choice. Things look the way they look and I'm sorry if you feel that denigrates Jones whom you obviously are very fond of.

 

[mkess101]

I think a lot of people aren't even scared Jon will lose. They just buy into Jon's excuses, like I've seen so many people just repeat what he has said almost verbatim. People putting Jon on a pedestal and let him do the thinking for them. Some really think Jon is just too good to lose. Lol

It's weird because the dude is a well known liar, you'd think people wouldn't be fooled that easily and use a little more discernment. But at the same time, he is also charasmatic and he seems to charm a lot of people.
Also, some people just love that feeling of going against the masses and be a rebel. Unfortunately the cause they rebel for is often not as important as the act of rebelling itself.

Yeah maybe some of that too. My point is more that it doesn't really matter the reasons he gives. Just decide. Keep the belt and fight Aspinall, or vacate and fight whoever you want (or retire). The rest is just noise.

 

[Mind Mine]

HW champ should fight the interim champ or get stripped

He doesn’t care about the belt and said it publicly. That’s the part people are missing. I’m a Jones fan and I say strip him. His fans simply don’t care as no matter how much you hate the man he has transcended and become greater than things like rank or climbing the ladder. Jones is what Conor wishes he was. Jones is Godfather. It’s time bro even the haters gotta let him call his shots. Last of the golden era