Why do repeated cleans leave me sucking wind?

Depends on how many reps you're doing.

Unless your doing them non stop for atleast 120 seconds. For 1-3 seconds its all ATP-PC system, than ATP Glycoolytic, and Lactic Acid. Than it goes into aerobic after about 120 seconds. your breathing hard, becuase your ATP stores are being rapidly depleated, not becuase its aerobic in nature.
 
The 120 does not end when the bar is set down. Also is it not prevelant during metcon to do 30 reps of clean and press, as a lot of my clients do or Mark Twight or Crossfit, sorry those aren't done in 120 seconds. Also as I said, there is no getting around those pathways. It's physiology and kinetics, no two ways about it.
 
The 120 does not end when the bar is set down. Also is it not prevelant during metcon to do 30 reps of clean and press, as a lot of my clients do or Mark Twight or Crossfit, sorry those aren't done in 120 seconds. Also as I said, there is no getting around those pathways. It's physiology and kinetics, no two ways about it.

Exactly, which is why doing a power clean, or even 10 isn't aerobic, no matter how you slice it.
 
10 could be, are we talking ten reps, where we are taking a re-grip at the bottom? Etc etc, sorry man, but aerobic is anything that gets the heart rate elevated for over 120 seconds, and a set of 5-10 cleans leaves your heart elevated for that period of time. Hell that's a simple cardiology test by tracking your heart rate.
 
Aerobic capacity' (VO2 max)' describes the functional status of the cardiorespiratory system, (the heart, lungs and blood vessels). Aerobic capacity is defined as the maximum volume of oxygen that can be consumed by one's muscles during exercise. It is a function both of one's cardiorespiratory performance and of the ability of the muscles to extract the oxygen and fuel delivered to them. To measure maximal aerobic capacity, an exercise physiologist or physician typically directs a subject to exercise on a treadmill, first by walking at an easy pace and then, at set time intervals during graded exercise tests, gradually increasing the workload. The higher a cardiorespiratory endurance level, the more oxygen transported to exercising muscles and the longer exercise can be maintained without exhaustion. The higher aerobic capacity, the higher the level of aerobic fitness.



Right off of wikepedia, seems as though it's not that complicated, it involves both capacities.
 
10 could be, are we talking ten reps, where we are taking a re-grip at the bottom? Etc etc, sorry man, but aerobic is anything that gets the heart rate elevated for over 120 seconds, and a set of 5-10 cleans leaves your heart elevated for that period of time. Hell that's a simple cardiology test by tracking your heart rate.

Aerobic has nothing to do with your heart rate. It has to do with metabolic pathways. If you ran a 100 meter dash at full sprint, your heart would be pounding and you'd be breathing heavy, but does that mean your in an aerobic state? Your body does not switch over to oxidative phosphorylation until after approximately 120 seconds of continuous exercise. His being gassed after doing a set of power cleans is due to the extreme anaerobic demands of Weightlifting, not due to cardio. Think I'm wrong? Look it up.
 
Aerobic capacity' (VO2 max)' describes the functional status of the cardiorespiratory system, (the heart, lungs and blood vessels). Aerobic capacity is defined as the maximum volume of oxygen that can be consumed by one's muscles during exercise. It is a function both of one's cardiorespiratory performance and of the ability of the muscles to extract the oxygen and fuel delivered to them. To measure maximal aerobic capacity, an exercise physiologist or physician typically directs a subject to exercise on a treadmill, first by walking at an easy pace and then, at set time intervals during graded exercise tests, gradually increasing the workload. The higher a cardiorespiratory endurance level, the more oxygen transported to exercising muscles and the longer exercise can be maintained without exhaustion. The higher aerobic capacity, the higher the level of aerobic fitness.



Right off of wikepedia, seems as though it's not that complicated, it involves both capacities.

Yes thats all accurate, but it has nothing to do with your argument. The point of the gradual increase is because the body needs to warm up properly. Your describing the Bruce Protocol.
 
It doesn't? Really? Funny the military takes your "aerobic" capacity off of it, and since it was a military doctor that came up with that and VO2 max, I will leave that as it is. I have looked it up. In fact it was discussed at length in my class this semester. So it's just muscle fatigue that makes it hard after rep 5 or 10? If that was the case we could drink gatorade all day long theoretically and be fine. But we can't due to metabolic pathways and VO2 max and a number of other factors.
 
Yes thats all accurate, but it has nothing to do with your argument. The point of the gradual increase is because the body needs to warm up properly. Your describing the Bruce Protocol.

Sure it does, and I am not describing anyones method. I am going off of text and lecture man.
 
I love these threads... I seriously learn alot from them. I have always wondered what the correct definition of "anaerobic" and "aerobic" was, and I understand that clearer now.
 
This is directly from one of my Exercise Testing Books

" ATP is produced at a high rate from carbohydrate stores within the muscle during a process called glycolysis. Lactic Acid is also produced. Because of the Lactic Acid by product, which causes muscle fatigue, ATP production from the lactate system can empower intense exercise for only 1-3 minutes.
 
Ya and what comes after that? The time is not always immediate or exact due to a number of factors, you of all people should know that.

We have already been over that, so if one system is working the other aren't? Hahaha, ok dude. You know full well you tax a number of systems and pathways at the same time, as well as it being the most efficient way to train.
 
Sure it does, and I am not describing anyones method. I am going off of text and lecture man.

How does it support your argument. Your argument is that doing power cleans is partly aerobic in nature, becuase if it's above a certain beats per minute it must be. None of what you just wrote supports that
 
Ya and what comes after that? The time is not always immediate or exact due to a number of factors, you of all people should know that.

We have already been over that, so if one system is working the other aren't? Hahaha, ok dude. You know full well you tax a number of systems and pathways at the same time, as well as it being the most efficient way to train.

THE AEROBIC SYSTEM DOES NOT TAKE EFFECT FOR AT LEAST 75-120 SECONDS. Unless your doing power cleans non stop for that amount of time it's all purely anaerobic.
 
It's a simple natural balance of metabolic pathways when doing this sort of exercise. There is the phospho-creatine or phosphogen pathway which is the max effort energy system, that really only last for about ten seconds. Next is the glycolytic or lactate pathway this phase peaks at about one minute, and has a max of about 2 minutes. Last is the oxydative or aerobic pathway which has a much lower intensity level than the other two, and doesn't really have a drop off point IE marathon runners. So if you exercise in the glycolyctic pathway and work at high levels of intensity for aerobic lengths of time it allows for simultaneous development of all three pathways, much more than targeting one at a time. Cleans in the 4-21 rep range, fit exactly in here.





I already put this in there. It isn't hard to comprehend, it's the same text written and published at Princeton. Now like I said, believe what you want, but cleans are just anaerobic? Ummm ok:icon_chee
 
THE AEROBIC SYSTEM DOES NOT TAKE EFFECT FOR AT LEAST 75-120 SECONDS. Unless your doing power cleans non stop for that amount of time it's all purely anaerobic.

Sure. So a ten second sprint, or a better yet a 400 meter sprint doesn't work your cardio? What the hell? SOmebody shoot me dead if 400 meters isn't a aerobic workout.
 
I love these threads... I seriously learn alot from them. I have always wondered what the correct definition of "anaerobic" and "aerobic" was, and I understand that clearer now.

Anaerobic= without oxygen, meaning your body gets energy from Phosphocreatine stores, or from Glycolysis (sugars) without the use of oxygen.

Aerobic= Using oxygen to create replenish ATP stores. short bursts of work like a 100 meter sprint, or a power clean or 40 yard dash are anaerobic. Aerobic would be an 800 meter run, or 1500 meter run, or a marathon.
 
Sure. So a ten second sprint, or a better yet a 400 meter sprint doesn't work your cardio? What the hell? SOmebody shoot me dead if 400 meters isn't a aerobic workout.

It's not aerobic, it's purely anaerobic, it's not long enough to force you to utilize your aerobic system, so please shoot yourself dead, or find me a STUDY to back up your claim.
 
It's a simple natural balance of metabolic pathways when doing this sort of exercise. There is the phospho-creatine or phosphogen pathway which is the max effort energy system, that really only last for about ten seconds. Next is the glycolytic or lactate pathway this phase peaks at about one minute, and has a max of about 2 minutes. Last is the oxydative or aerobic pathway which has a much lower intensity level than the other two, and doesn't really have a drop off point IE marathon runners. So if you exercise in the glycolyctic pathway and work at high levels of intensity for aerobic lengths of time it allows for simultaneous development of all three pathways, much more than targeting one at a time. Cleans in the 4-21 rep range, fit exactly in here.





I already put this in there. It isn't hard to comprehend, it's the same text written and published at Princeton. Now like I said, believe what you want, but cleans are just anaerobic? Ummm ok:icon_chee

You just refuted your own argument dude. Aerobic doesnt begin to kick in until about the 75-100 second mark. So unless your doing power cleans for over a minute NON STOP it's not aerobic. The pathways blend yes, but aerobic does NOT kick in until atleast a minute, and usually not till almost the 2 minute mark.
 
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