Why did Hitler not massacre the 400 thousand allied soldiers stuck at Dunkirk?

[mozfonky]

In no fucking world was Hitler doing the best for his people, you'd have to be a Nazi apologist to even argue that. He literally drove his country into the ground and killed millions of his own people and threw tens of millions into abject poverty and misery.

Most of the policies that helped get Germany out of the Great Depression were either Weimar era policies that he kept (autobahn construction, etc.) or unsustainble fraud and bad economics (mefo bills).

I don't think he thought it would end like that. In his mind, he saw world domination, as crazy as that was. I doubt he saw it ending with suicide either.

 

[avenue94]

I don't think he thought it would end like that. In his mind, he saw world domination, as crazy as that was. I doubt he saw it ending with suicide either.

Yes, he saw continental or world domination as his end goal, not his country's well being, let alone his people's well being. Those are very different priorities.

 

[Hog-train]

Even if he completely destroyed the French and British forces at Dunkirk, he still would have lost the war.

The fatal mistake was starting a two front war in the Soviet Union. And into the winter without proper clothing for his soldiers.

No matter how superior the German forces were to the Russians, you cannot occupy that great of a landmass.

Then he moronically declared war on the US. Once they got involved, it's completely game over. Keeping America out of the war should have been the goal for Germany. Instead, the United States became the arsenal of democracy and Germany’s defeat was all but assured.

 

[mozfonky]

Yes, he saw continental or world domination as his end goal, not his country's well being, let alone his people's well being. Those are very different priorities.

I dunno, I think he really believed his own ubermensch bullshit and really thought his people were special, just like the Japanese thought they were Children of Heaven or whatever. The Jews have their version too, The Chosen People, but I don't recall them ever putting anyone through a holocaust.

Truth is, from what I know of anthropology, every or most tribal groups have a self-given name meaning "the people" and they project all their bad qualities on the nearest tribe who are the "other". The difference is, that we're no longer stone aged and that kind of thinking on that large a scale will end our species, almost certainly. It's not getting any better I don't think and it's a bit of a miracle we haven't nuked each other already. Point is, that kind of thinking, that you're more important or better is eventually destructive for all of us. We haven't outgrown our own primitive psychology but we have created the technology to make it more deadly.

 

[mozfonky]

Even if he completely destroyed the French and British forces at Dunkirk, he still would have lost the war.

The fatal mistake was starting a two front war in the Soviet Union. And into the winter without proper clothing for his soldiers.

No matter how superior the German forces were to the Russians, you cannot occupy that great of a landmass.

Then he moronically declared war on the US. Once they got involved, it's completely game over. Keeping America out of the war should have been the goal for Germany. Instead, the United States became the arsenal of democracy and Germany’s defeat was all but assured.

Makes no sense, not the Russian campaign and certainly not the entire world. What was the population? Maybe 100 million if that? Like I said, the only thing that makes sense was that he really thought that his people were "supermen".

 

[Hog-train]

Makes no sense, not the Russian campaign and certainly not the entire world. What was the population? Maybe 100 million if that? Like I said, the only thing that makes sense was that he really thought that his people were "supermen".

I think if Germany got Japan to invade Russia in the Far East instead of into Southeast Asia, it could have worked. Japan needed oil and Russia has that. No way the Soviets could have defended a two pronged war.

Then perhaps the US would have never entered the war.

Also, Germany should have never allied with Italy. That just caused them all sorts of problems where they had to allocate resources to help bail them out as well as fighting in Greece and Africa.

 

[mozfonky]

I think if Germany got Japan to invade Russia in the Far East instead of into Southeast Asia, it could have worked. Japan needed oil and Russia has that. No way the Soviets could have defended a two pronged war.

Then perhaps the US would have never entered the war.

Also, Germany should have never allied with Italy. That just caused them all sorts of problems where they had to allocate resources to help bail them out as well as fighting in Greece and Africa.

I dunno, the landmass of russia, even though they weren't that well equipped as well as the winter (same thing that got Napoleon's army) made it a tough job. Japan was too busy fucking up china to bother with Russia. Again, neither country really had the sheer numbers, I suppose if the nuclear bomb was gotten to before us, things might be different. But even if they could conquer the world, how long would they hold onto it? All the defeated would be chomping at the bit for revenge.

 

[avenue94]

I dunno, I think he really believed his own ubermensch bullshit and really thought his people were special, just like the Japanese thought they were Children of Heaven or whatever.

Were Jews not his people? This is just out and out Nazi apologism.

think if Germany got Japan to invade Russia in the Far East instead of into Southeast Asia, it could have worked. Japan needed oil and Russia has that. No way the Soviets could have defended a two pronged war.

Japan tried and got his ass handed to them. Russian population centers are also not exactly bordering Japanese supply hubs. Not to mention occupying China was already a tall enough order before a full blown invasion of a peer.

That just caused them all sorts of problems where they had to allocate resources to help bail them out as well as fighting in Greece and Africa.

Africa was also going to be a conflict zone, with or without Italy. Ditto with Greece to a lesser extent.

 

[mozfonky]

Were Jews not his people? This is just out and out Nazi apologism.

Japan tried and got his ass handed to them. Russian population centers are also not exactly bordering Japanese supply hubs. Not to mention occupying China was already a tall enough order before a full blown invasion of a peer.

Africa was also going to be a conflict zone, with or without Italy. Ditto with Greece to a lesser extent.

fuck no jews were not his people, that was the problem, at least in his mind. comeon mr. avenue.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Yeah I don't think Japan could really have achieved a great deal invading Russia, that "pincer" is dealing with the vast size of Siberia and the Japanese attack would still be ALONG way to the east of the areas the USSR moved factories into, actually much further than they were from the Nazi invasion from the west.

The Japanese as well were otherwise dealing with isolated colonial forces of European powers in conflict at home and a very weak/disorganised China, granted the Russians werent dealing with war in the west within their boarders by 1945 but still they got the best of the Japanese pretty easily. Against the Americans the Japanese had the advantage that most of the fighting was amphibious invasion of islands, much easier to put up a a defence against.

 

[Mike Hagger]

Damn man SD changed a lot, people offering glimpses of Hitler apologist. He was just doing all of this for his people! Crazy.

I also read here Hitler didn't order the execution of jews that was wardens of different prisons and only one of those prisons was really bad. Wow, haven't been brushing up on my ww2 history for a long time seems there's a lot of new evidence I need to check out.

 

[IanEdwards]

I think if Germany got Japan to invade Russia in the Far East instead of into Southeast Asia, it could have worked.

Japan had absolutely no way of pulling that off it was a logistical impossibility

 

[OneOfOne]

Damn man SD changed a lot, people offering glimpses of Hitler apologist. He was just doing all of this for his people! Crazy.

What did he do all of that for?

I also read here Hitler didn't order the execution of jews that was wardens of different prisons and only one of those prisons was really bad. Wow, haven't been brushing up on my ww2 history for a long time seems there's a lot of new evidence I need to check out.

Was there ever any Nazi documents discovered showing plans for mass execution of Jews in concentration camps? Were there any papers, blueprints, or other documents showing the design and implementation of gas chambers? Was there any documents showing orders from Hitler or others to gas Jews?

Surely you can't carry out an operation of that magnitude without diagrams, blueprints, official orders, logistical planning, protocols, and other things that would be present in official documents somewhere.

 

[Mike Hagger]

What did he do all of that for?



Was there ever any Nazi documents discovered showing plans for mass execution of Jews in concentration camps? Were there any papers, blueprints, or other documents showing the design and implementation of gas chambers? Was there any documents showing orders from Hitler or others to gas Jews?

Surely you can't carry out an operation of that magnitude without diagrams, blueprints, official orders, logistical planning, protocols, and other things that would be present in official documents somewhere

Uh yeah, before we even engage in a convo on this topic, you obviously know a tremendous amount of documentation was destroyed either by war or ordered destruction and there are many, many, lapses in knowledge from WW2. nonetheless many of the leaders died during the war. Those who remained weren't exactly open regarding their participation in mass executions. Its kind of the clean Wehrmacht theory. Its false.

Hitler gave the orders he gave the authority. The final solution involved Himmler receiving authority from Hitler to do a task. Whats the counter to that?

The fuck are you doing absolving Hitler of the holocaust..

 

[IanEdwards]

What did he do all of that for?



Was there ever any Nazi documents discovered showing plans for mass execution of Jews in concentration camps?

no, it all happened by accident during a temporary lapse in concentration. Approximately 1600 rail transports just happened to be available to transport the people who voluntarily and simultaneously vacated their various ghettoes and made their way to rail hubs where the transports were fortuitously waiting for them and the relevant railway lines were fortuitously free to use, just by chance.

 

[I Am Legion]

There are many theories, but everyone agrees that it cost Germany the War. England would have been left defenseless and easy to invade and conquer, France would no longer have any forces with which to fight, and Hitler would have been able to concentrate all his forces to operation Barbarossa and crush the Russians.

Theories:
1. Spread too thin and he listened to his field leaders who wanted to consolidate.
2. Hitler wanted to persuade the Brits to surrender and use the troops for negotiations.
3. Hitler thought it was too good to be true and could be a trap.
4. Might have not wanted to use panzers in the swamps of Flanders.
5. Didn't deploy troops because he thought Luftwaffe forces would be enough, and they were grounded due to weather.

My opinion--For all the successes they had, his leaders weren't perfect, and Hitler was losing his mind making him choose poorly.

 

[OneOfOne]

Uh yeah, before we even engage in a convo on this topic, you obviously know a tremendous amount of documentation was destroyed either by war or ordered destruction and there are many, many, lapses in knowledge from WW2. nonetheless many of the leaders died during the war. Those who remained weren't exactly open regarding their participation in mass executions. Its kind of the clean Wehrmacht theory. Its false.

Hitler gave the orders he gave the authority. The final solution involved Himmler receiving authority from Hitler to do a task. Whats the counter to that?

The fuck are you doing absolving Hitler of the holocaust..

Would it be correct for me to interpret your answer to my question as no?

 

[OneOfOne]

no, it all happened by accident during a temporary lapse in concentration. Approximately 1600 rail transports just happened to be available to transport the people who voluntarily and simultaneously vacated their various ghettoes and made their way to rail hubs where the transports were fortuitously waiting for them and the relevant railway lines were fortuitously free to use, just by chance.

Nobody disputes that people rounded up and sent to concentration camps. The dispute is about whether or not people were systematically gassed and murdered in those camps as part of a grand master plan. Some people dispute the numbers as well.

 

[Thrawn33]

Nobody disputes that people rounded up and sent to concentration camps. The dispute is about whether or not people were systematically gassed and murdered in those camps as part of a grand master plan. Some people dispute the numbers as well.

And there just happened to be a mass of cremation ovens and showers that dispensed lethal poison purpose built for what exactly?

Or did some camp Kommandants manage to procure all these things to facilitate mass murder without German high command having any idea?

 

[IanEdwards]

The dispute is about whether or not people were systematically gassed and murdered in those camps as part of a grand master plan.

If not a grand plan, then what? a few concentration camp commandants just all so happened to have the same idea of wiping out hundreds of thousands of Jews independently, sourcing the necessary Zyklon-B and so on, all in some off-the-cuff improvisation, like for the lols bro? and it just so happened that in every concentration camp and extermination camp, hundreds of thousands died. What a coincidence.

Nazi Germany was a repressive state of almost unparalleled brutality.

People who defied or went against the regime could (at the very least) be sent 'To The Russian Front'- punishment enough as a near-certain death sentence- and at worst they and their entire family could be killed. having first been tortured.

What would you say the odds are, of people improvising large-scale murder, in a hugely repressive state, without consulting their superiors?

Would you say Nazi Germany was a likely state for public functionaries to 'just wing it bro, lol'?