Why couldn't Islam finish JDM?

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

I sure wish guys like Islam would turn their dominance to GnP. Sad to see such control without the ability to do strike damage.

Wrestling dominance with some sporadic sub attempts is a weak meta to watch right now!

Bring back Tito!

Spoiler

 

[Luthien]

Islam is ducking Shavkat

 

[AL-Tappo McSnappo]

 

[KO Shotz]

Becasue Jack did a really good job at not giving Islam a chance to finish him. I know the noobs & casuals just saw Islam lay on him for 25 minutes, but for ppl like me we saw Islam put on a clinic all while appreciating & being impressed by Jack surviving.

Kind of like the Dricus & Khamzat fight. Many didn't see the masterclass Chimaev performed, while completely missing how well Dricus did in defending himself from being finished.

 

[CasualBot]

Snooze worthy wrestling is back !

Who needs finishes, when we got decisions!

 

[Deceasedxo]

Finishing someone is true domination. A decision of any kind doesn't come close.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

I sure wish guys like Islam would turn their dominance to GnP. Sad to see such control without the ability to do strike damage.

Wrestling dominance with some sporadic sub attempts is a weak meta to watch right now!

Bring back Tito!

It's stylistically difficult to get off effective GnP against elite opponents that are focused on playing defense/waiting to stand-up and scramble. The second you posture up they are putting feet on hips, rolling under, going belly down to turtle-up, etc. So the logical thing to do is just control them early and often and drain their gas tank so they can't scramble/stand-up as effective later and you can possibly open up with the GnP more later (or more effectively sub-hunt).

There aren't a lot of fighters that have elite GnP period because you need such an obscene level of wrestling/grappling dominance that you can go for heavy GnP as part of a meta to open up transitions. Even still it's a risky approach at this stage of the game where most fighters are far better defensively at not getting submitted/giving up bad positions and using those opportunities to create scrambles. Opponents need to adapt to the problems presented - better TDD, timing counter-strikes (uppercuts/knees), using jabs/kicks to keep distance, etc.

Let elite elite well-rounded fighters be smart and tactical and let action fighters be action fighters, you can't get everything from everyone.

 

[Poatan Power]

JDM just shelled up and let Mak truck him all night.

Its on JDM who didn’t want to risk position due to the threat of submission. He was able to give up position and scramble against Belal because he’s not a submission threat. Opted to play it safe against Mak and play guard all night and get beat up.


Mak obviously took what was given to him and the path of least resistance.

Great post. JDM defended half a dozen or so sub attempts but never risked getting subbed with a positional improvement. He basically turtle shelled.

Finishing someone is true domination. A decision of any kind doesn't come close.

I mostly agree, however: if you get a finish against someone who takes a lot of risks (Dustin, Justin, Charles) in your weight class... okay, that's cool. Subbing someone who never gets subbed or KO'ing someone who never gets KO'ed (like Nate Diaz for example) means a lot more.

Leon Edwards KO'ing Usman was wild because Usman doesn't take risks and dominates.

JDM took no risks. So I don't take points away from Islam for JDM shelling up.

JDM did the equivalent of running away all fight, it just looks different when you're pinned on the ground.

 

[Karate Kid]

i think its time some learn the difference between aiming to not get finished v aiming to get up.

the former means your chances of getting up are far less but its far less easier to not get submitted. iykyk

 

[Vigfree]

He came close early with a darce attempt, but I have to admit I was disappointed that he couldn't end the fight. JDM was wincing the entire fight as if he were injured. At least in the Chimaev/DDP fight DDP looked healthy the whole match so it made sense that he could keep defending subs. But JDM seemed injured and defenseless. Makhachev should have pushed harder for a sub.

Can we stop w/ the "JDM was injured bc he started wincing deep in to the fight" excuse?
The camp nor JDM hasn't said anything about an injury. In fact has said he had a great camp, even after the fight.
This wincing started multiple rounds deep in to the fight... if JDM got injured at that point, it is because of something Islam did to him. Which is further evidence - in that case - of Islam whooping that ass. It also was obviously part-frustration at being able to DO NOTHING vs Islam's attacks.

The ONLY thing JDM did well in the fight was defend getting subbed. Otherwise, he lost everywhere:
He mostly got out-struck. His front leg got fucked up. He got out-grappled and I don't believe he defended a single take-down. He only got up at the end of the round when he got taken down, which Islam might have done on purpose.

Islam did focus on control and keeping JDM down, and sure could have pushed harder for subs... but first- he did actually try for subs, and second- it seems stupid to push so hard as to lose a dominant position and let JDM back up (which would be Islam pushing "harder").
You can turn that around and argue JDM didn't try hard enough to get up, and put all his energy in to just not getting subbed. And after losing the first 2 rounds, not trying hard enough to get up in r3 means you are essentially punting trying to win the fight.

Also Islam attempted to end the fight w/ subs more than Chimaev did, so no idea what your point is there either.

Don't understand your points here at all. Just sounds like you are looking for reasons to hate on Islam w/ a bunch of poorly thought out nonsense.

 

[Vigfree]

It's stylistically difficult to get off effective GnP against elite opponents that are focused on playing defense/waiting to stand-up and scramble. The second you posture up they are putting feet on hips, rolling under, going belly down to turtle-up, etc. So the logical thing to do is just control them early and often and drain their gas tank so they can't scramble/stand-up as effective later and you can possibly open up with the GnP more later (or more effectively sub-hunt).

There aren't a lot of fighters that have elite GnP period because you need such an obscene level of wrestling/grappling dominance that you can go for heavy GnP as part of a meta to open up transitions. Even still it's a risky approach at this stage of the game where most fighters are far better defensively at not getting submitted/giving up bad positions and using those opportunities to create scrambles. Opponents need to adapt to the problems presented - better TDD, timing counter-strikes (uppercuts/knees), using jabs/kicks to keep distance, etc.

Let elite elite well-rounded fighters be smart and tactical and let action fighters be action fighters, you can't get everything from everyone.

Great post!
This is exactly why many somehow don't understand how good Khabib was in that lane.

 

[seanb1979]

I sure wish guys like Islam would turn their dominance to GnP. Sad to see such control without the ability to do strike damage.

Wrestling dominance with some sporadic sub attempts is a weak meta to watch right now!

Bring back Tito!

guys who don't do a lot of GnP usually avoid it because theyre likely prone to hand injuries

 

[kkthx]

haram

 

[kuroro]

Can we stop w/ the "JDM was injured bc he started wincing deep in to the fight" excuse?
The camp nor JDM hasn't said anything about an injury. In fact has said he had a great camp, even after the fight.
This wincing started multiple rounds deep in to the fight... if JDM got injured at that point, it is because of something Islam did to him. Which is further evidence - in that case - of Islam whooping that ass. It also was obviously part-frustration at being able to DO NOTHING vs Islam's attacks.

The ONLY thing JDM did well in the fight was defend getting subbed. Otherwise, he lost everywhere:
He mostly got out-struck. His front leg got fucked up. He got out-grappled and I don't believe he defended a single take-down. He only got up at the end of the round when he got taken down, which Islam might have done on purpose.

Islam did focus on control and keeping JDM down, and sure could have pushed harder for subs... but first- he did actually try for subs, and second- it seems stupid to push so hard as to lose a dominant position and let JDM back up (which would be Islam pushing "harder").
You can turn that around and argue JDM didn't try hard enough to get up, and put all his energy in to just not getting subbed. And after losing the first 2 rounds, not trying hard enough to get up in r3 means you are essentially punting trying to win the fight.

Also Islam attempted to end the fight w/ subs more than Chimaev did, so no idea what your point is there either.

Don't understand your points here at all. Just sounds like you are looking for reasons to hate on Islam w/ a bunch of poorly thought out nonsense.

I never meant to imply that he came in injured. But rather that when you injure your opponent to the degree they can't even hide it, you have less excuse to not finish them inside of 5 rounds.

 

[oldschoolmmafan]

We take souls brother, to have a man rag doll you entire fight, when you honestly believe you are best and everyone agree, this worse than quick sub or KO mentally.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

i genuinely think that the talent, cardiovascular endurance, new age, calls for 7 round title fights. call me crazy.

when non title fights get five round main events, then it's time to up the challenge for actual championship fights.

islam and those types are ready. and i think it'd be more interesting that way.

 

[tequilaboy]

Should have ground and pounded his leg..

 

[kuroro]

We take souls brother, to have a man rag doll you entire fight, when you honestly believe you are best and everyone agree, this worse than quick sub or KO mentally.

Finishing someone is true domination. A decision of any kind doesn't come close.

this makes zero sense. a finish equals death. if it was a real fight, then that's it. whether it's an arm bar or a ko, you're now unable to defend yourself and your life is forfeit. hanging tough in guard for 25 minutes means you resisted until the end and your ultimate fate is still undecided.

 

[oldschoolmmafan]

this makes zero sense. a finish equals death. if it was a real fight, then that's it. whether it's an arm bar or a ko, you're now unable to defend yourself and your life is forfeit. hanging tough in guard for 25 minutes means your resisted until the very end.

If no round JDM not last brother.

 

[kuroro]

If no round JDM not last brother.

yeah, probably. but certainty is in the finish.