Who do you rate higher: Marciano or Tyson?

[StewDogg11]

Doesn't sound like he actually admitted to raping them, just that he liked knowing he could. Sick thoughts, but more an admission of violent angry thoughts than anything else. It's fucked up, but not that long ago I heard from a girl I used to date and now is like a sister who worked at the stripjoint (she went back) that one of the girls showed up with black eyes and bruises and said her boyfriend a bouncer there had beaten and sodomized and raped her. She was telling me because I used to be a bouncer and was looking for extra work, and she assured me the bouncer was getting fired and charges filed, but I asked her a week later how that had turned out, and she was like, "nah, they both got fired. That was how she liked it, it was like a sick roleplaying thing". Long and short, people are fucked up and this whole rape fantasy thing is getting a little too common, I think people are just freaks and it is making real rape look more acceptable which is wrong as hell, but to each their own as long as they keep their shit away from me.

Well yeah but then he admitted that he went through with it.

 

[revoltub]

The documentary Tyson that came out in 2008. He said he loved to hear woman (woman of power in particular) say no to his sexual advances because it turned him on that they were powerless to actually stop him from doing whatever he wanted to them.

Also the whole “I didn’t rape Desiree Washington but I would now” quote wasn’t a good look.

Mike never raped anyone. Imo

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Well yeah but then he admitted that he went through with it.

Well, that is fucked up. Rest assured, if incorporated in some kind of tattoo, hed be a part of something bigger, not a tattoo centered around him in some action pose, I got a weird eye for art, I make things work and I respect the fighter first and foremost, even if these men's lives intrigue me and I find myself looking into their stories to better understand the fighter. Gerald McClellan is anither fighter I'm very attached to career wise, but who I have a hard time accepting on a personal level.

 

[StewDogg11]

Well, that is fucked up. Rest assured, if incorporated in some kind of tattoo, hed be a part of something bigger, not a tattoo centered around him in some action pose, I got a weird eye for art, I make things work and I respect the fighter first and foremost, even if these men's lives intrigue me and I find myself looking into their stories to better understand the fighter. Gerald McClellan is anither fighter I'm very attached to career wise, but who I have a hard time accepting on a personal level.

Yeah McClellan was a real odd duck as well. He used to watch videos of dogfights in the dressing room before his fights to get him pumped up.

EDIT: I think it might’ve actually been Oliver McCall.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Yeah McClellan was a real odd duck as well. He used to watch videos of dogfights in the dressing room before his fights to get him pumped up.

EDIT: I think it might’ve actually been Oliver McCall.

McCall was a sick man, so doesn't surprise me. Being the man who withstood Tyson in sparring always have me the impression he was a fucked up man and had brain damage for sure. Like enjoying being in car accidents without a seatbelt over and over.

 

[PUO3]

But we're talking about the competitor Foreman from that particular time. Not about todays senior citizen... He's not gonna say as a 70 year old that he would have wrecked Tyson.
Do you really think George Foreman was scared of anyone? Lol...

Did I say he was scared of anyone or did I post a quote from the man saying what he thought of Tyson?

Love all you experts who know better than the fighters themselves.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Tyson didn't rape that chick fwiw. That chick's profession was accusing dudes of rape.

 

[YourBoss]

H2H? Tyson P4P? Marciano Legacy? Marciano Prime vs Prime? Tyson

 

[defjaam]

H2H? Tyson P4P? Marciano Legacy? Marciano Prime vs Prime? Tyson

Why legacy Marciano?
Thats probably the one thing I disagree with the most. Mike Tyson sent shockwaves globally and became a cult figure, got constantly mentioned in pop culture, in songs and in movies.
He inspired plenty of boxers that came after him, like Lamon Brewster...and even great ones during his time, like Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, felt they needed to beat Tyson to get their full credit.

Personally I'd say that Tyson is ahead in every area, including resume, but legacy isn't even close. Sportsmanship may be an area where he's not ahead.

I find it interesting that fans are realistic about Jack Johnson, as seen in the other thread...but as it gets closer to later era's, fans tend to romanticize about certain boxers (Liston, Ali and apparently Marciano as well).

 

[YourBoss]

Why legacy Marciano?
Thats probably the one thing I disagree with the most. Mike Tyson sent shockwaves globally and became a cult figure, got constantly mentioned in pop culture, in songs and in movies.
He inspired plenty of boxers that came after him, like Lamon Brewster...and even great ones during his time, like Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, felt they needed to beat Tyson to get their full credit.

Personally I'd say that Tyson is ahead in every area, including resume, but legacy isn't even close. Sportsmanship may be an area where he's not ahead.

I find it interesting that fans are realistic about Jack Johnson, as seen in the other thread...but as it gets closer to later era's, people are unrealistic about certain boxers (Liston, Ali and apparently Marciano as well).

He was 49-0. He couldnt have done any better. Tysons has lost all of his big fights even tho he was out of his prime by the time he lost them.

 

[defjaam]

He was 49-0. He couldnt have done any better. Tysons has lost all of his big fights even tho he was out of his prime by the time he lost them.

Which opponent/victory of his first 42 opponents/victories are you impressed by the most?

 

[SandisLL]

fans tend to romanticize about certain boxers (Liston, Ali and apparently Marciano as well).

There we should look what their years of carrier we are looking.

 

[djacobox372]

Tyson, he had more title defenses, fought better competition, and was far more dominate in his wins.

You don't get extra points for retiring early IMO. The main reason Rocky retired with that record is that he didn't fight for the title until his 43rd fight.

 

[ssx]

Head to head, we a

What about the Tyson that quit on his stool, pretty sure any version of Marciano mops the floor with him.

Head to head when talking ATG's, we are talking the best version of the respective fighters. The Tyson that mauled Spinks, Holmes and Berbick, not the one who should not have been fighting that quit against McBride.
Peak Tyson fights Marciano's 49 fight resume and he's 49-0 with 49 KO's.
Peak Marciano fights Tyson's 56 fight resume and he's probably 48-8 or something like that.

 

[SandisLL]

The matchmaking in Marciano's day was far superior, and they fought more often.

In these days media wasn't that developed and of course Dempsey, in less extent Marciano were seriously noticed by higher level media managment only after relativlely high bouts records achieved.
Mike had…..developed media era, Don, that was beautiful promoter.
Only hard curse Don had, that he undervalued his boxer's opponents….
Don isn't Dana. Sorry.

Actually Mike likes me a lot, but he won out of prime Holmes.
This of course doesn't reduce fact, that he and Ali in their real prime were the fastest HW boxers universe ever had, enough mobile even for modern days CW top 1-5. Undervalued Morrison was not that fast than they in his short prime, but still, even he in his prime was enough mobile for modern days CW top 1-5.

 

[SandisLL]

Rock wasn't fast, medium level speed, but he was tough and hard hitting gentleman. Due to reach and not rarerly also weight disatvantage, he was forced to be highly technical. He didn't had that impressive prime years speed that had prime Mike or Ali, Morrison, also didn't had Ali and some others champs reach.

So from pshyical parameters Dempsey, Rocky had far more difficulties to get into HW top than other guys.
Mike at least had brilliant speed and mobility, beautiful coaches ( young Dempsey didn't had Cus & Co team ) and he was in developed media era too.

 

[PUO3]

Rock wasn't fast, medium level speed, but he was tough and hard hitting gentleman. Due to reach and not rarerly also weight disatvantage, he was forced to be highly technical. He didn't had that impressive prime years speed that had prime Mike or Ali, Morrison, also didn't had Ali and some others champs reach.

So from pshyical parameters Dempsey, Rocky had far more difficulties to get into HW top than other guys.
Mike at least had brilliant speed and mobility, beautiful coaches ( young Dempsey didn't had Cus & Co team ) and he was in developed media era too.

Rocky was highly technical?

 

[SandisLL]

Appears that enough for his era.
Fans usually love to evaluate easily visible stuff ( more long movements etc like stuff ).
If he wasn't enough skilled, they managed use their reach advantage against him properly.
Ofc, some kind for example prime Klistshko or Ali = different animals and he eated a lot before get closer.

 

[PUO3]

Appears that enough for his era.
Fans usually love to evaluate easily visible stuff ( more long movements etc like stuff ).
If he wasn't enough skilled, they managed use their reach advantage against him properly.
Ofc, some kind for example prime Klistshko or Ali = different animals and he eated a lot before get closer.

He was tough as nails and hit like a truck. Technical is one of the last ways Id describe Rocky.

 

[StewDogg11]

Head to head, we a

Head to head when talking ATG's, we are talking the best version of the respective fighters. The Tyson that mauled Spinks, Holmes and Berbick, not the one who should not have been fighting that quit against McBride.
Peak Tyson fights Marciano's 49 fight resume and he's 49-0 with 49 KO's.
Peak Marciano fights Tyson's 56 fight resume and he's probably 48-8 or something like that.

So when we’re talking about the totality of a fighter’s career we leave out the fights that occurred if the fighter was past his prime and act like they didn’t happen or affect their legacy in any way? Do we leave out Foreman’s win over Moorer also because he was 46? Bottom line it’s Tyson’s fault he was a train wreck of a human who could only sustain a three year prime and yes that should affect his legacy. Pernell Whitaker was a drug addict too but had a much more sustained level of success than Tyson. James Toney led a lifestyle not dissimilar to Tyson and was still winning world titles when Tyson was getting knocked out by Danny Williams.

Does anyone really claim Justin Upton is an equal or better ballplayer than Babe Ruth? I mean he’d surely dominate just as much if not more as Ruth if you sent him back in a time machine to Ruth’s era.