Where do the "duck" arguments come from?

[TRYHARD 2001]

If someone doesn't instantly fight another fighter who they have no reason to fight, with no preparation, for free, then the other fighters fans scream "duck!" It's brainless nonsense, pretty much in the same vein as "shook" and "alpha" claims.

There are some instances. Vitor definitely did everything he could to avoid Mousasi for many years.

Lennox Lewis was the most ducked HW boxer earlier in his career. Both Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson gave up championship belts when Lewis was the mandatory challenger rather than face him in the ring. That's a pretty legit case for ducking.

But for the most part, here, it's just the usual idiocy.

What championship did Tyson give up in order to duck Lennox? The plan was always for him to fight Holyfield when he came back from prison and that's exactly what happened. Becuase of that fight, we got Lewis/Holyfield I and II.

 

[moogie101]

I dont believe ducking is ever out of fear of getting hurt, but rather fear of what a loss can do to your career and potential future earnings if you feel you're being matched up unfavourably. This is a business after all.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

It doesn't but it gives you a muuuuuccchhh deeper understanding of the sport and what's at play. It also might give you behind-the-scenes access to a certain fighter actively ducking another.


Tyron Woodley ducking Lombard for like 2 years always comes to mind when we talk about "ducks" in MMA.

For me the only fighter who can Duck is a champion. Contenders aren't obligated to fight anyone specific and are free to chose their path to the title. Champions are obligated to fight the clear number 1 contender.

If Fighter A is a bad style for me but I have a much better overall game and am more likely to get to the number 1 contender status going around him then so be it. If he is good enough he will make his way up the ladder and our paths will cross when we get closer to or one of us gets the title. Dennis Hallman had Matt Hughes number but Matt was the GOAT WW champion until GSP came along. Tyron got to the WW title and Lombard never even got close.

GSP gets called a DUCK for not going to MW to fight Anderson but Anderson is never called out for not going to LHW to fight Jon or any other champion. Its too easy for fighter X who is ranked 15th to say number 4 in the world is ducking me. I beat him in sparring or I beat him on the regional circuit etc etc.

 

[Rationality]

Because some fans really think these guys should just get mad and fight like two drunk guys at a bar. It's why they are fans and others are prize fighters.

 

[campbecc]

Read about it A LOT on Sherdog, how can someone in their right mind argue fighters would avoid do their fucking job out of... fear? Of fighting? Never really understood if this is trolling or just a Sherdog trope or whatever.

Has there ever been a proof of this? Like someone admitting it later or something.

it is not out of fear. They duck a fighter they think they will lose to because it hurts their career.

Tito made up excuses to not fight Chuck because he knew he was a terrible fight for him.

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

GDR is queen duck. Ducked cyborg hard.

 

[Cylence]

There's a few instances of it in the sport because of fear, but they're few and far between. Most of it is a risk/reward type of thing. The GDR thing has already been mentioned, but it is the most obvious, top level example. She was the champion in her division, and literally forfeited her title to avoid her number one contender in Cyborg. It was a textbook duck of fear.

The Tito/Chuck thing is of a similar nature, but it encompasses the risk/reward element as well. When Tito was champion, he tried to avoid Chuck at all costs because he realized it was a nightmarish match up for him due to the training sessions they had together. However, when they had both lost to Randy and were both chomping at the bit for another crack at the title, the risk/reward made sense for Tito, so he got in the cage with him.

 

[DoctorStoppage]

All of the people who said Masvidal was ducking look stupid

 

[Doug Money]

What top fights did Woodley avoid? He won the belt then defended it 4 times in 18 months. He asked for money fights but didn't get any. He fought who the UFC told him to.

Lombard has Cryron shook

 

[fzoid4454]

What championship did Tyson give up in order to duck Lennox? The plan was always for him to fight Holyfield when he came back from prison and that's exactly what happened. Becuase of that fight, we got Lewis/Holyfield I and II.

Lewis was the mandatory #1 challenger for the WBC belt when Tyson won that belt from Frank Bruno in his comeback reign. He was the REQUIRED next fight for Tyson.

Tyson and Don King wanted to blow that off for the much easier fight and another belt, with Bruce Seldon. Lewis took them to court, and the NJ court ruled that Tyson had to fight Lewis, as the long-standing mandatory challenger, before he could fight Seldon.

They paid Lewis $4M to step aside for one single fight, so Tyson could fight a unification fight for his WBC belt and the WBA belt that Bruce Seldon held. Part of the $4M agreement was that Lewis was going to get the next WBC title shot. Lewis probably figured pocketing $4M for doing nothing, and then being guaranteed a fight for two belts (for even bigger money than just the WBC title fight would have been), next (he was still the mandatory #1-ranked title challenger for the WBC), was a pretty good deal. Once Tyson had the WBA belt, as well, he vacated the WBC belt to avoid having to fight Lewis, leaving the title shot guarantee up to the WBC to fulfill by having him fight for a vacant throne.

Tyson then put his WBA belt on the line against Holyfield, instead.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Lewis was the mandatory #1 challenger for the WBC belt when Tyson won that belt from Frank Bruno in his comeback reign. He was the REQUIRED next fight for Tyson.

Tyson and Don King wanted to blow that off for the much easier fight and another belt, with Bruce Seldon. Lewis took them to court, and the NJ court ruled that Tyson had to fight Lewis, as the long-standing mandatory challenger, before he could fight Seldon.

They paid Lewis $4M to step aside for one single fight, so Tyson could fight a unification fight for his WBC belt and the WBA belt that Bruce Seldon held. Part of the $4M agreement was that Lewis was going to get the next WBC title shot. Lewis probably figured pocketing $4M for doing nothing, and then being guaranteed a fight for two belts (for even bigger money than just the WBC title fight would have been), next (he was still the mandatory #1-ranked title challenger for the WBC), was a pretty good deal. Once Tyson had the WBA belt, as well, he vacated the WBC belt to avoid having to fight Lewis, leaving the title shot guarantee up to the WBC to fulfill by having him fight for a vacant throne.

Tyson then put his WBA belt on the line against Holyfield, instead.

And I just learned something.


Thanks!

 

[McSpikes]

There still hasnt been a better example of ducking in UFC as Bowe did to Lewis

 

[BluntForceTrama]

Are you implying there ISN’T any ducking in the UFC???


Don’t be that guy. Yair and Hooker are clear examples of ducks.

Yair opted to get cut rather than fight Zabit. Held out for a more favorable fight.

Hooker coming off a beheading by Barboza fought a higher ranked Iaquinta then used the excuse of rankings to blatantly duck Makhachev. Also held out for an easier fight against Felder.

I haven't had a problem with anything you posted except this.

Yair is not ducking Zabit come off it. You may not respect his talent but I certainly do. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he is champ one day. I think he's that good.

That said, Ive read several interviews with Pantera and he strikes me as someone pretty intelligent so he knows whats at stake and he knows who the players are. He knows he has to go through these guys if he wants to be champ one day. It may not look good with his previous Zabit interactions but for sure he's not 'Ducking' Zabit.

People were saying he ducked Jeremy Stephens and that he would be scared in the 2nd meetup. Guy didn't have one iota of fear in him fight night and he kicked the shit out of Stephens.

I believe this fight will happen one day, and Yair will kick the living shit out of Zabit.

 

[BluntForceTrama]

Do some research goof, we can’t help that you’re new to the sport.

Choosing to be blissfully ignorant on a subject isn’t an excuse for your lack of knowledge.

You just pulled an Eddie Bravo "Go Look into it"
That isn't an argument.

 

[BluntForceTrama]

Bisping ducked Whittaker

Oh really? The same Bisping who had no qualms of getting back in the cage and beating the demon who tried to kill him (Hendo)? You mean that Bisping?
Try and put yourself in Bisping's shoes and tell me you wouldn't be scared shitless to do something like that.
I got nothing but respect for Bisping's king-sized huevos. Calling him a ducker is ludicrous.

 

[gevoudane]

Its not the fear of fighting. Its the fear of losing.

 

[campbecc]

it's about doing what's best for their careers. Professional fighters fight for a money, a loss costs them money. It's pretty simple really.

 

[sampuncher]

"Ducking" only applies when a fighter takes less money to fight an easier opponent.

Too often fighters are accused of "ducking" when they are just being business minded.

Spot on, end the thread

 

[campbecc]

"Ducking" only applies when a fighter takes less money to fight an easier opponent.

Too often fighters are accused of "ducking" when they are just being business minded.

it's better business to take less money to take a fight you know you will most likely win instead of taking a fight you know you will probably lose for slightly more. Because losses damage a fighters ability to make money in the future. And any loss also greatly hurts the fighters chance of getting a title shot, so even if it's not about money, fighters have every incentive to try and increase their chances of winning.

 

[Billthebutcher]

You got a problem with ducks?!