What's Ngannou's strategy gonna be?

[TheMMAnalyst]

For instance, I am training for my first amateur mma fight after some 8 years of KB/Muay Thai. A lot of my focus is on wrestling. It's hard to believe Ngannou didnt train it.

I'm sure Ngannou has trained wrestling to a degree for this fight (maybe singular techniques that might be useful in certain situations i.e. single leg against the cage off a clinch), but I doubt he is spending a lot of time on it. He's not a wrestler by nature and especially against high-level opposition forcing yourself to do something that doesn't come naturally will likely lead to bad timing/set-up/entries/etc.

Kudos to you for taking on an amateur fight, that's awesome. Since you come from a KB/Muay Thai background it's probably your innate "fight-style" to be a striker at this point. On instinct your goal when fighting someone is to get at a comfortable range where you can use your speed/vision/footwork/rhythm/strike selection to maximize it's effectiveness. This is where you have the deepest set of tools that are the most effective and come most naturally to you.

It makes sense you'd want to train wrestling/grappling since you see that as a "hole" that your opponent can exploit, but it doesn't mean you should be trying to wrestle with your opponent. There is nothing more tiring than wrestling/grappling and as you get bigger (not sure what weight-class you are) the risks of poor wrestling get astronomically higher. You take a bad shot or your angle/entry is off and all of a sudden you have a 230+ lb killer on top of you.

It's of course good to have training/awareness of other elements of fighting such as wrestling/grappling/clinch fighting so you have the depth of knowledge to use those skills as needed, but ultimately fighting is about forcing engagements where you have significant advantages. You should be building skills to compliment your core style to maximize its effectiveness.

If we look at the best out-fighters (Gane, Wonderboy, Izzy) do you see them shooting for takedowns in fights ever? I'm sure they've trained them to a degree, but they focus most of their wrestling/grappling as defensive work (sprawling/angling/get-ups from bottom/cage walking), because when they are standing at range they are certain they have a big edge they can take advantage of. Their goal is to keep the fight where they are most dominant, not to try other techniques for the sake of trying them. It's more of a last resort to using them, so if you see Ngannou shooting for takedowns it probably means he's shook/on the edge of getting knocked out.

 

[ryun253]

Francis has 3 ways to win. Punch, Kick & Talk Gane to sleep with his soothing voice.

 

[Black0ut]

Big Frank : cut him off, counter BIG on Ganes kicks, don’t gas

Gane : circle away from Frank’s biggest shots, work the body, volume over power.

 

[10000yearsold]

I'm sure Ngannou has trained wrestling to a degree for this fight (maybe singular techniques that might be useful in certain situations i.e. single leg against the cage off a clinch), but I doubt he is spending a lot of time on it. He's not a wrestler by nature and especially against high-level opposition forcing yourself to do something that doesn't come naturally will likely lead to bad timing/set-up/entries/etc.

Kudos to you for taking on an amateur fight, that's awesome. Since you come from a KB/Muay Thai background it's probably your innate "fight-style" to be a striker at this point. On instinct your goal when fighting someone is to get at a comfortable range where you can use your speed/vision/footwork/rhythm/strike selection to maximize it's effectiveness. This is where you have the deepest set of tools that are the most effective and come most naturally to you.

It makes sense you'd want to train wrestling/grappling since you see that as a "hole" that your opponent can exploit, but it doesn't mean you should be trying to wrestle with your opponent. There is nothing more tiring than wrestling/grappling and as you get bigger (not sure what weight-class you are) the risks of poor wrestling get astronomically higher. You take a bad shot or your angle/entry is off and all of a sudden you have a 230+ lb killer on top of you.

It's of course good to have training/awareness of other elements of fighting such as wrestling/grappling/clinch fighting so you have the depth of knowledge to use those skills as needed, but ultimately fighting is about forcing engagements where you have significant advantages. You should be building skills to compliment your core style to maximize its effectiveness.

If we look at the best out-fighters (Gane, Wonderboy, Izzy) do you see them shooting for takedowns in fights ever? I'm sure they've trained them to a degree, but they focus most of their wrestling/grappling as defensive work (sprawling/angling/get-ups from bottom/cage walking), because when they are standing at range they are certain they have a big edge they can take advantage of. Their goal is to keep the fight where they are most dominant, not to try other techniques for the sake of trying them. It's more of a last resort to using them, so if you see Ngannou shooting for takedowns it probably means he's shook/on the edge of getting knocked out.

when he wailed on Stipe on the ground last fight, I have to admit that was terrifying. He seemed comfortable and fast using wrestling techniques to find striking openings. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets tangled up with Gane, that he looks to overwhelm him on the ground.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Just watched a Dana's interview with Bert. He said that Gane is "stylistically the greatest striker in the HISTORY of the sport".

.......

Frank has no chance.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

when he wailed on Stipe on the ground last fight, I have to admit that was terrifying. He seemed comfortable and fast using wrestling techniques to find striking openings. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets tangled up with Gane, that he looks to overwhelm him on the ground.

Stipe went for a single in open space and Ngannou showed patience and evolved takedown defense to use multiple defenses until he was able to shove the head down and sprawl on him. He then moved towards his back and took a body lock as Stipe stood up and dragged him down, immediately letting got to unload power hooks instead of trying to control or chain other techniques.

If you give a guy a huge opening he doesn't need to be elite at that skill to execute - having a rear-waist body-lock 2 minutes into a fight when you are as strong as Ngannou is just an invitation to get taken down, it's not a sign that Ngannou is a confident offensive wrestler (it was a counter-wrestling technique that got him in position to get a takedown).

It's not the same as shooting/chaining multiple offensive wrestling techniques together with a goal of controlling someone, it's just taking advantage of a huge opening. Ngannou becomes far less effective the more tired he gets, it just doesn't make sense to wrestle unless the openings are clear. Gane has shown he is really cognizant of circling off the cage when in the clinch, he's going to be on his bike early and using a ton of movement and feints.

If Ngannou could get on top of him then yeah, it's probably going to be really bad for Gane, but what are the odds Gane shoots so that Ngannou can counter-wrestle? I really don't see it happening, so I don't see Ngannou getting those type of opportunities. Gane will be looking to stay at the edge of kicking range and dictate the exchanges on his terms, he'll be avoiding brawling/clinching/in-fighting early until he's confident Ngannou is tired.

 

[10000yearsold]

Stipe went for a single in open space and Ngannou showed patience and evolved takedown defense to use multiple defenses until he was able to shove the head down and sprawl on him. He then moved towards his back and took a body lock as Stipe stood up and dragged him down, immediately letting got to unload power hooks instead of trying to control or chain other techniques.

If you give a guy a huge opening he doesn't need to be elite at that skill to execute - having a rear-waist body-lock 2 minutes into a fight when you are as strong as Ngannou is just an invitation to get taken down, it's not a sign that Ngannou is a confident offensive wrestler (it was a counter-wrestling technique that got him in position to get a takedown).

It's not the same as shooting/chaining multiple offensive wrestling techniques together with a goal of controlling someone, it's just taking advantage of a huge opening. Ngannou becomes far less effective the more tired he gets, it just doesn't make sense to wrestle unless the openings are clear. Gane has shown he is really cognizant of circling off the cage when in the clinch, he's going to be on his bike early and using a ton of movement and feints.

If Ngannou could get on top of him then yeah, it's probably going to be really bad for Gane, but what are the odds Gane shoots so that Ngannou can counter-wrestle? I really don't see it happening, so I don't see Ngannou getting those type of opportunities. Gane will be looking to stay at the edge of kicking range and dictate the exchanges on his terms, he'll be avoiding brawling/clinching/in-fighting early until he's confident Ngannou is tired.

Well put, and I agree.

 

[Zaar]

Just watching the Ufc Embedded 4...Nganou throwing elbows, that's good since Gane likes to get closer at times and actually dodge inward, so to speak.

 

[GUY]

I'm sure Ngannou has trained wrestling to a degree for this fight (maybe singular techniques that might be useful in certain situations i.e. single leg against the cage off a clinch), but I doubt he is spending a lot of time on it. He's not a wrestler by nature and especially against high-level opposition forcing yourself to do something that doesn't come naturally will likely lead to bad timing/set-up/entries/etc.

Kudos to you for taking on an amateur fight, that's awesome. Since you come from a KB/Muay Thai background it's probably your innate "fight-style" to be a striker at this point. On instinct your goal when fighting someone is to get at a comfortable range where you can use your speed/vision/footwork/rhythm/strike selection to maximize it's effectiveness. This is where you have the deepest set of tools that are the most effective and come most naturally to you.

It makes sense you'd want to train wrestling/grappling since you see that as a "hole" that your opponent can exploit, but it doesn't mean you should be trying to wrestle with your opponent. There is nothing more tiring than wrestling/grappling and as you get bigger (not sure what weight-class you are) the risks of poor wrestling get astronomically higher. You take a bad shot or your angle/entry is off and all of a sudden you have a 230+ lb killer on top of you.

It's of course good to have training/awareness of other elements of fighting such as wrestling/grappling/clinch fighting so you have the depth of knowledge to use those skills as needed, but ultimately fighting is about forcing engagements where you have significant advantages. You should be building skills to compliment your core style to maximize its effectiveness.

If we look at the best out-fighters (Gane, Wonderboy, Izzy) do you see them shooting for takedowns in fights ever? I'm sure they've trained them to a degree, but they focus most of their wrestling/grappling as defensive work (sprawling/angling/get-ups from bottom/cage walking), because when they are standing at range they are certain they have a big edge they can take advantage of. Their goal is to keep the fight where they are most dominant, not to try other techniques for the sake of trying them. It's more of a last resort to using them, so if you see Ngannou shooting for takedowns it probably means he's shook/on the edge of getting knocked out.

Weight Class is MW.

You don't see those guys shooting because they have the advantage on the stand-up. But Ngannou does not have that advantage in this fight. Anyway, I have nothing new to add and I understand your opinion and respect it.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Weight Class is MW.

You don't see those guys shooting because they have the advantage on the stand-up. But Ngannou does not have that advantage in this fight. Anyway, I have nothing new to add and I understand your opinion and respect it.

I get what you are ultimately saying - if Ngannou gets into a technical outfight against Gane he doesn't have advantages, so he needs to do something different.

I just think trying to turn it into a different type of striking battle (in-fighting/brawling + using a variety of set-ups to blitz) is the best path, not doing something that isn't natural for him and which uses a lot of energy, especially knowing that he gets sloppy/less effective as he gets tired.

Good luck in your fight bro, hope you take it to em'.

 

[Sickbro69420]

He might have the confidence to do it. At least mixing up wrestling more to get Gane to second guess and not throw as many kicks.

I fucking knew it.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I fucking knew it.

Good call.

I generally don't make predictions but the possibility of Ngannou actually attempting takedowns seemed like a very possible, but not probable, tactic he would apply to his gameplan after all of the offensive and defensive wrestling he learned in the training camp against Stipe.

 

[spinup]

The style match-up is a fast and technical out-fighter against a powerful blitzing counter-striker. In a title fight I don't see either guy deciding now is the time to showcase "other" skills that aren't truly fully developed. It's likely going to be about using what got you there and despite both guys having some other skills they never stray far from their true approach to fighting. This is also HW where wrestling is almost non-existent and a dangerous game to play, where you can't just force scrambles or attack subs from bottom without incredible risk.

I just don't see wrestling playing much of a factor at all - Gane could barely take down Rozenstruick and had trouble keeping him down. He's at his core a kickboxer and not a wrestler at all; it was the last element he added to his game and wrestling at HW is a whole different beast (there is only one guy that does it consistently well at the highest level, Curtis Blaydes, who was a national champion wrestler in college). What good is feinting level changes if your opponent knows you have no intention of shooting or that if you did shoot you'd get sprawled on and be trapped under a massive killing machine?

Just because Ngannou is working with Xtreme Couture and Erick Nicksick doesn't mean he is turning him into a wrestler - when have you seen Ngannou wrestle in the UFC? He's literally never shot for a takedown in open space, he hit one counter takedown on Stipe after he sprawled on him and spun around to his back for a moment (and he just let Stipe stand-up so he could smack him with hooks when he wasn't looking). Ngannou has built his entire game around overwhelming opponents with power shots while standing, why is he going to risk wasting a ton of energy to do something that isn't innate and doesn't compliment actually his game?

You've got to give me the point here. TBF I didn't see it happening like tha.
Very obviously, Ngannou was dealing with serious knee issues and was incapable to bounce and move. As he had no way to really stalk Gane or close the distance efficiently with strikes, he resorted to plan B and did it beautifully.

Not a super exciting fight but tremendous display of heart, hard work and intelligence. A true champion mentality.

 

[Sickbro69420]

Good call.

I generally don't make predictions but the possibility of Ngannou actually attempting takedowns seemed like a very possible, but not probable, tactic he would apply to his gameplan after all of the offensive and defensive wrestling he learned in the training camp against Stipe.

I had a feeling from his last performance that he was mixing up the wrestling and becoming more confident. Of course I have been wrong and could of been as well and Unfortunately he needs to build up on his submission wrestling game and ground and pound. Like all things that takes time as well.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

You've got to give me the point here. TBF I didn't see it happening like tha.
Very obviously, Ngannou was dealing with serious knee issues and was incapable to bounce and move. As he had no way to really stalk Gane or close the distance efficiently with strikes, he resorted to plan B and did it beautifully.

Not a super exciting fight but tremendous display of heart, hard work and intelligence. A true champion mentality.

Yeah I’m pretty shocked - I just wonder if he would’ve wrested if his knees weren’t trash, he looked so slow and unable to close distance it was shocking. Against Stipe in the rematch he was moving in and out really well early, here he was just stuck in the mud.

Good call bro, you saw it coming and I definitely missed it. Was not expecting this fight to look anything like this, really weird fight from both guys at times.

 

[spinup]

Yeah I’m pretty shocked - I just wonder if he would’ve wrested if his knees weren’t trash, he looked so slow and unable to close distance it was shocking. Against Stipe in the rematch he was moving in and out really well early, here he was just stuck in the mud.

Good call bro, you saw it coming and I definitely missed it. Was not expecting this fight to look anything like this, really weird fight from both guys at times.

Agree, his movement was inexistent, and he looked so worried during the walkout, that wasn't a good look. I think without the injury, the plan was to mix in TD attempts and overhands but he clearly didn't have the ability to cut the cage and close in.The lack of leg kicks was also evident.

 

[GUY]

I get what you are ultimately saying - if Ngannou gets into a technical outfight against Gane he doesn't have advantages, so he needs to do something different.

I just think trying to turn it into a different type of striking battle (in-fighting/brawling + using a variety of set-ups to blitz) is the best path, not doing something that isn't natural for him and which uses a lot of energy, especially knowing that he gets sloppy/less effective as he gets tired.

Good luck in your fight bro, hope you take it to em'.

you see what I was telling you about

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

you see what I was telling you about

When your right, your right - you right!

Ngannou by decision at +1200, don’t think many were expecting this outcome.

 

[Prex32]

most just suck at predictions and dont have a clue about fighting

 

[GUY]

When your right, your right - you right!

Ngannou by decision at +1200, don’t think many were expecting this outcome.

to be honest, I also didn't make a bet, so I was not even expecting it myself. Just thought it was a good gameplan and his coach agreed.