What I did not Appreciate about Khamzat's Victory, and is it a problem?

[AmonTobin]

Blame ddp for not letting him sink a rnc in. IF ddp just stopped defending, yall wouldn't be complaining.

This. The truth is Khamzat was threatening all fight long, jockeying for finishing positions, and Dricus was busy defending all fight long. I congratulate Dricus for resisting as well as he did despite his grappling disadvantage. Weathering all those blows, big and small, and fending off the submission threat over 5 rounds. A less durable fighter would have succumbed to Khamzat's pressure.

There was plenty of strategy at play and both guys were constantly working. Both guys had to be mindful of exhausting themselves prematurely, of overextending or over-commiting to positions, lest the other guy capitalize. I personally didn't see any "lay and pray". I did see quite a few "oh fuck" moments from Dricus.

 

[Alpha_T83]

I can't really yell if you're replying as if what i said fell into the top category or the bottom lol, but ... I'm talking like, laying on top of a person while unable to advance on a position, or refusing to advance on a position, and hoping it works out for you in the end. Do just enough pitter patter and positional adjustments to appear busy.

Again, not saying that's exactly what happened here, just that in all of Luke's expertise he essentially described what we've historically called LnP.

Edit - I should mention that I just went by the cliffs. No damn way I'm listening to LT for 20 minutes, so what i said only is only as applicable as the cliffs were.

Sorry I misinterpted what you were saying.

But there are people on these forums trying to re-term lay and pray to refer to the person on the bottom, i.e. DDP.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I watched this video from Luke Thomas, who I have previously avoided (because he is annoying), and he made what I thought was a very good point about the match: Khamzat's control was almost entirely for the sake of neutralizing DDP, and was not/could not have been with the intent to actually win the fight.

If you neutralize your opponent's offense to zero, you actually won the fight.

 

[mattemate]

I enjoyed it. DDP couldn't do anything. It was like watching Floyd shut someone down for 12 rounds.

Mighty Mouse said if you don't like it, go watch kickboxing, boxing, karate combat, slap fighting, shin kicking, whatever you want.

DJ's opinion >>>>>>>>> Luke's opinion

Someone should step up and beat Khamzat. It should be easy, right?

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

If you neutralize your opponent's offense to zero, you actually won the fight.

Shouldn’t it have been a draw since Dricus largely neutralized Khamzat’s offense as well?

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

Since Khamzat came to the UFC he's had 6 performances of the night and 1 fight of the night. That 7 all together. That's out of 9 UFC fights. Let that sink in.

Khamzat will be back with another great performance I have no doubt.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Asking Khamzat, "why didn't you finish the fight?", is no different than asking Dricus, "why didn't you get up?".
This is essentially asking both guys, why they didn't "try harder", while sitting on your couch .

I just now realized where your AV is from

Audentes Fortuna iuvat

 

[KO Shotz]

So many ppl talking about risk taking in fights.

One of the best fighter attributes one can have is fight IQ.

 

[Arm Barbarian]

His points would be easier to take seriously if he also validly criticized DDP for what happened on Saturday but he doesn't so I can't.

It's not on the winning fighter to take the risks and IMO is on the guy losing to take risks. That's absolutely ridiculous to think the winning fighter should need to risk anything if they're winning by a lopsided margin.

Yeah this is one of the things that is really consistently overlooked or ignored on this site in general, when it comes to lack of excitement surrounding the fight, or the narrative that Chimaev was a "boring, lay n prayer."

He did what he wanted from nearly start to finish in that fight, largely due to Dricus literally being entirely clueless on how to counteract anything Khamzat was doing.

Zero attempts at sprawling, zero attempts at hand fighting the body locks, and nearly no attempts at scrambling off his back.

He looked like someone who likely did not train with any decent wrestlers in his camp.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Well hopefully the next fight with him is better. This was one of the shittiest fights compared to the hype I remember. Made pac and Mayweather look like gatti ward

 

[ninja boot]

IDK what kind of revisionist history some people here are on about, but "Lay and pray" is a term I've heard for over 20 years, and going back to the early 2000s it originally meant laying on top of your opponent, stalling, and praying the judges would give you a decision.

I keep seeing sherdoggers saying "lay and pray" was originally meant to insult the fighter "laying and praying" on the bottom, but that's simply not the case. Go find someone talking about lay and pray in the late 90s and early 2000s.

lay and pray isn't really a thing anymore. The promotion has realized inaction isn't entertaining and between the and the commission has agreed to stand fighters up when things are getting dull usually followed by Rogan complaining that he hates it and that fighter "A" was setting something up.

 

[HNIC215]

I think sometimes we see these fighters for their aura and don’t realize they are also human and experience things like fear, doubt or nervousness.

I don’t think Khamzat feared DDP, but I do think he had some doubt or nervousness during the fight to take chances and possibly lose control/position in the process.

Being his first title shot, he has a lot on the line. He builds for his community back home, he fights for his people/country.

I think he played it safe and that’s okay.

These types of boring one sided fights have happened so many times before. People give Khamzat shit about it because it’s easy to type what should or shouldn’t be done in a cage or ring.

 

[Pequeño Corey]

This should go well. Sherdog is full of people who despise Luke and also love the terrorist rat lip.

Luke is the only pundit pushing back on the whole "if you don't like it, go watch kickboxing because I'm a pro fighter and I know better than you what is entertaining and what isn't."

I can acknowledge that it was a dominant performance, but also acknowledge that it wasn't the most fun thing to watch. I can also acknowledge that hamsa's fights are usually more entertaining. You hazmat stans don't need to come to his rescue every time someone points out that he had a less than entertaining fight.

I also loved how Dana applauded the fight, but you know full well if it was Belal or Mossvar, he would have been talking all kinds of shit in the post fight presser.

 

[KoalaBear]

I started watching ufc to get drunk and watch bad mfers go at it lol. That ain’t it. I’ll still watch but kumshot is lame to watch

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

I also loved how Dana applauded the fight, but you know full well if it was Belal or Mossvar, he would have been talking all kinds of shit in the post fight presser.

Dana complained about someone on the Contender Series who won the exact same way as Khamzat the Tuesday before the PPV!

 

[laleggenda27]

1. Yes, Khamzat was VERY conservative and executed control for the sake of control, not to inflict damage or finish the fight.
2. No, it wasn't very entertaining.
3. I don't blame Khamzat for doing it; when fighting for the belt (and huge future earnings), the only thing that matters is winning.
4. DDP had a huge role in this; he was in survival mode the entire time, literally turtling on his knees for long stretches. If he scrambled and tried to improve position to actually win the fight, it would have been more exciting (largely because he probably gets finished).

 

[Pequeño Corey]

Dana complained about someone on the Contender Series who won the exact same way as Khamzat the Tuesday before the PPV!

Yes of course. Dana’s morals are flexible when it comes to his cash cows.”You’ll never bounce back from hitting a woman”

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Shouldn’t it have been a draw since Dricus largely neutralized Khamzat’s offense as well?

Eh, sure, Khamzat did nothing. In the  connotative sense. DDP did nothing in the denotative sense.

Is different.

 

[deviake]

Listened to the whole video, Luke Thomas is a G. He is correct as usual. They both fought very risk averse. DDP was turtling and Khamzat was far more focused on control than offense.

 

[Mind Mine]

I enjoyed it. DDP couldn't do anything. It was like watching Floyd shut someone down for 12 rounds.

Mighty Mouse said if you don't like it, go watch kickboxing, boxing, karate combat, slap fighting, shin kicking, whatever you want.

DJ's opinion >>>>>>>>> Luke's opinion

Someone should step up and beat Khamzat. It should be easy, right?

Excuse me Sir I will address your logical fallacy and you will hide. There is no fighter on the roster that would be allowed to do what Khamzat did in laying and holding an opponent down and pitter patter fight after fight. You would not receive heavy favor nor position even if winning. It would piss the fans off and you god damn know it. In denial? If there was an entire card of this UFC viewership would plummet. Basically Khamzat is being allowed due to being a cash cow to fight in a dirty style of neutralizing fights from occurring while landing weak shit. You say it’s awesome when Khamzat himself didn’t want to fight this way and was being directed by his corner to.