Social What happened to the flu?

[cleetus]

Bwaaaaaahahahaha....
Observational studies, "Models" and "Formulas".. Do you even science Bro?

I gave you a plethora of control group studies. Large sample sizes and peer reviews.. You do understand that observational and statistical studies lack scientific credibility, right? The results of those are "theory" that requires controlled studies to produce similar results to get any traction.

Guess what! The real reason surgeons wear masks is to protect against blood born pathogens. This shit has been studied and known for decades, now it doesn't fit the narrative.

Maybe you missed the ninja edit:

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002

N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic- review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x

“There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

“We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”

Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. … Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

“A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Conclusion Regarding That Masks Do Not Work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.


https://www.jpost.com/health-scienc...in-preventing-covid-transmission-study-666762

Amazing how you've rebutted them TWICE on this page alone, and no likes.....

I gave you 2. :thumbsup:

 

[cleetus]

They made that testing adjustment 60 minutes after Biden was sworn in.

Totally unrelated to political motivations.

Raise the cycles and you artificially inflate the scamdemic to fuck trump. Lower them when the pedophile takes office and then say you've conquered the bioweapon.

 

[Sir Punchalot]

How unbelievably fucking stupid would one have to be to start a thread like this. As if all the measures taken to limit the spread of this coronavirus wouldn't also have an effect on the spread of flu viruses. You conspiracy nut jobs sure go out of your way to let the world know how retarded you are sometimes.

 

[genecop]

Amazing how you've rebutted them TWICE on this page alone, and no likes.....

I gave you 2. :thumbsup:

I Liked him twice ...

 

[MicroBrew]

Bwaaaaaahahahaha....
Observational studies, "Models" and "Formulas".. Do you even science Bro?

I gave you a plethora of control group studies. Large sample sizes and peer reviews.. You do understand that observational and statistical studies lack scientific credibility, right? The results of those are "theory" that requires controlled studies to produce similar results to get any traction.

Guess what! The real reason surgeons wear masks is to protect against blood born pathogens. This shit has been studied and known for decades, now it doesn't fit the narrative.

Maybe you missed the ninja edit:

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002

N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic- review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x

“There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

“We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”

Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. … Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

“A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Conclusion Regarding That Masks Do Not Work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.


https://www.jpost.com/health-scienc...in-preventing-covid-transmission-study-666762

The reason that people aren't advised to wear respirators - I assume you mean cartridge type half face masks - is because government and medical experts are looking for a balance between convenience and safety. Respirators are more cumbersome, more expensive and harder to source. Vast majority of people can not afford to throw away respirators, which are not single use products. Most people can not properly santize a respirator. When I was in college we used P100 respirators , which are superior to N95. N100 is also superior to N95, but both are more expensive and harder to come by.

North Carolina Dept. of Health and Human Services

The effectiveness of face masks to prevent SARS CoV-2 transmission: A summary of the peer-review science.

Executive Summary:The peer reviewed scientific evidence for the protective effect of face masks and respiratory virus infection in healthcare and community settings is overwhelming.

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/media/674/open


Nature article from Oct 6th 2020

Face masks: what the data say

The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?

In hospitals and other health-care facilities, the use of medical-grade masks clearly cuts down transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

“You don’t have to do much math to say this is obviously a good idea,” says Jeremy Howard, a research scientist at the University of San Francisco in California, who is part of a team that reviewed the evidence for wearing face masks in a preprint article that has been widely circulated6.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8


---
Direct Epidemiological Evidence.
Cochrane (7) and the World Health Organization (8) both point out that, for population health measures, we should not generally expect to be able to find controlled trials, due to logistical and ethical reasons, and should therefore instead seek a wider evidence base. This issue has been identified for studying community use of masks for COVID-19 in particular (9). Therefore, we should not be surprised to find that there is no RCT for the impact of masks on community transmission of any respiratory infection in a pandemic.

Only one observational study has directly analyzed the impact of mask use in the community on COVID-19 transmission. The study looked at the reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in Beijing households by face mask use (10). It found that face masks were 79% effective in preventing transmission, if they were used by all household members prior to symptoms occurring. The study did not look at the relative risk of different types of mask.

Conclusion
Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re" role="presentation">Re

to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
--
Sars-Cov-2 size is 0.1 microns. N95 masks will block particles 0.3 microns. But the Sars-Cov-2 virus hitches a ride on droplets that are 0.3 microns or larger. Common sense should tell you a mask will block a large % of droplets.

Are South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, Israel, Western Europe and many other countries all stupid to either require or recomment their citizens wear masks outdoors? You think they are ignorant of the science?

 

[Milton_Gracie]

Biden's America

 

[lilelvis]

The reason that people aren't advised to wear respirators - I assume you mean cartridge type half face masks - is because government and medical experts are looking for a balance between convenience and safety. Respirators are more cumbersome, more expensive and harder to source. Vast majority of people can not afford to throw away respirators, which are not single use products. Most people can not properly santize a respirator. When I was in college we used P100 respirators , which are superior to N95. N100 is also superior to N95, but both are more expensive and harder to come by.

North Carolina Dept. of Health and Human Services

The effectiveness of face masks to prevent SARS CoV-2 transmission: A summary of the peer-review science.

Executive Summary:The peer reviewed scientific evidence for the protective effect of face masks and respiratory virus infection in healthcare and community settings is overwhelming.

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/media/674/open


Nature article from Oct 6th 2020

Face masks: what the data say

The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?

In hospitals and other health-care facilities, the use of medical-grade masks clearly cuts down transmission of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

“You don’t have to do much math to say this is obviously a good idea,” says Jeremy Howard, a research scientist at the University of San Francisco in California, who is part of a team that reviewed the evidence for wearing face masks in a preprint article that has been widely circulated6.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8


---
Direct Epidemiological Evidence.
Cochrane (7) and the World Health Organization (8) both point out that, for population health measures, we should not generally expect to be able to find controlled trials, due to logistical and ethical reasons, and should therefore instead seek a wider evidence base. This issue has been identified for studying community use of masks for COVID-19 in particular (9). Therefore, we should not be surprised to find that there is no RCT for the impact of masks on community transmission of any respiratory infection in a pandemic.

Only one observational study has directly analyzed the impact of mask use in the community on COVID-19 transmission. The study looked at the reduction of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in Beijing households by face mask use (10). It found that face masks were 79% effective in preventing transmission, if they were used by all household members prior to symptoms occurring. The study did not look at the relative risk of different types of mask.

Conclusion
Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re" role="presentation">Re

to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
--
Sars-Cov-2 size is 0.1 microns. N95 masks will block particles 0.3 microns. But the Sars-Cov-2 virus hitches a ride on droplets that are 0.3 microns or larger. Common sense should tell you a mask will block a large % of droplets.

Are South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, Israel, Western Europe and many other countries all stupid to have most or many of their citizens wearing masks? You think they are ignorant of the science?

More of the same shit.
Controlled studies (hundreds of them) have said otherwise.
Wake up, brew. You’re being fed a load of shit and you act like someone’s going to take it away from you.
It’s ok, man. Change you’re mind.

 

[MicroBrew]

More of the same shit.
Controlled studies (hundreds of them) have said otherwise.
Wake up, brew. You’re being fed a load of shit and you act like someone’s going to take it away from you.
It’s ok, man. Change you’re mind.

Due largely to ethical reasons you aren't going to find randomized controlled studies of mask usage efficacy in blocking covid-19. There is one Danish study in PNG but it has been criticised on ethical grounds and results have not been released yet.

From my own expereince in college, where we were required to wear masks to mitigate the danger of toxic and carcinogenic fumes, respirators and masks do work, because without the respirators or masks, I could smell some of the fumes. With the masks / respirators I either could not smell it or barely .

 

[lilelvis]

Due largely to ethical reasons you aren't going to find randomized controlled studies of mask usage efficacy in blocking covid-19. There is one Danish study in PNG but it has been criticised on ethical grounds and results have not been released yet.

From my own expereince in college, where we were required to wear masks to mitigate the danger of toxic and carcinogenic fumes, respirators and masks do work, because without the respirators or masks, I could smell some of the fumes. With the masks / respirators I either could not smell it or barely .

I wear n-95’s around the shop for an assortment of tasks. And yes, they are very effective. But viral infections are a completely different animal wherein that can enter your system through the eyes, skin, lymph system etc.
the reasons they fail in controlled studies are probably many, but the participants are trained in proper application and monitored.
The simple fact that the lungs are a primary excrement organ that dissipates some of your viral and bacterial load likely negates it’s prophylactic properties.
I’m just spitballing with that last part, but it makes sense.
The fact is, in controlled studies with masked participants vs no mask there is no statistical difference in the rate of viral infection, with some even showing higher rates and more severe infections in the masked participants, although it’s not statistically significant. people wearing masks outdoors, and staying inside is the antithesis to good health and very immune suppressive.
it’s a narrative, and not based in solid science.
Edit: virologists and doctors know this, and the ones that won’t flex to the narrative are not allowed to speak the truth.

 

[Day Drinking]

LOL. If masks worked - NO covid.

What a lemming.

Do motorcycle helmets work?

 

[Day Drinking]

Lol if condoms worked - no STDs
Lol if speed limits worked - no collisions
Lol I can count to potato

These people are really fucking stupid.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Lots of people wearing masks

In Japan it is normal for people with the flu to wear a mask, so that they don't spread it.

[/Thread]

They had the right idea to begin with. But now this shit's all political instead of just being a good idea. In many ways, I wish we were more like the Japanese. They're not nearly as divided as we are.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Is it possible that the flu has been transformed into the covid 19 variant?

Can't say I'm sorry to see this ban. Sorry. Not sorry.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Many do wear a mask in winter. Still the flu cuts through the place like crazy. Most years I’ve had schools close home room classes, every year. Even had a few schools closed for the swine flu.

People in Japan wear masks in public AFTER they already have been infected and show obvious symptoms. They get infected and infect others before they become symptomatic. Now with people routinely wearing masks whether they're infected or not or symptomatic or not, it stops the spread before it can even start.

 

[ElKarlo]

People in Japan wear masks in public AFTER they already have been infected and show obvious symptoms. They get infected and infect others before they become symptomatic. Now with people routinely wearing masks whether they're infected or not or symptomatic or not, it stops the spread before it can even start.

Kinda. A lot of people wear a mask all winter. But yes about half start to wear a mask when they start to present symptoms.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

There have been fewer influenza cases in the United States this flu season than in any on record. About 2,000 cases have been recorded since late September, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In recent years, the average number of cases over the same period was about 206,000.
After fears that a “twindemic” could batter the country, the absence of the flu was a much needed reprieve that eased the burden on an overwhelmed health care system.
“We do not know when it will come back in the United States, but we know it will come back,” said Sonja Olsen, an epidemiologist at the C.D.C.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/22/science/flu-season-coronavirus-pandemic.html
flu mysteriously vanished!!!
and if anyone dares to question covid narrative they will be ridiculed get called crazy conspiracy theorist.
The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.
george orwell

Weird how the flu and pretty much all deaths disappeared and covid went up.
If you get shot in the head in a gang fight, covid.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

There is one other factor besides the obvious social distancing and masks that would explain the dip although this is purely anecdotal and not evidence of a wider patern.

I got a REALLY bad cold last month. The symptoms were very covid-like. So I had to go get a test to see if it's covid. I also suggested to the doctor "maybe it's the flu, should we do a flu test?" She tells me it's not, that the flu isn't going around, that no one has the flu this year. That was that, no flu test.

I kept thinking about Trump telling people that if you stop testing you'll stop having cases. Like obviously if won't test people for the flu you'll have less diagnosed cases this year.

Admittedly, she was right, I definitely only had a cold.

I got symptoms and we had to determine if it was a bad case of allergies or covid. It was at that point I realized I wasn't going to waste my life hiding in the basement or put a mask on and go ahead and live my life.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

The Orwell thing is becoming very grating.

If you have read Orwell, it's just funny because he literally predicts the future.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

But it makes sense though that masks cut down on the spread. The flu is spread by airborne droplets coming fron infected persons . Also by people touching contaminated surfaces then touching their nose, mouth or eyes.

Masks aren't going to totally cut down the transmission but they will make a big difference.

Right. Under normal circumstances in Japan, the flu still spreads before people become symptomatic and wear masks, but masks do help limit the spread from that point. But now with the current protocols, we're nipping the flu in the bud.

 

[brackis1]

What happened to the OP's sudden concern for the flu?